Curse

Hyunsai · Feb 16, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

To SotiCoto: Siphon speed is not a better opening for Black mantis thrust? 10 energy and 45 seconds recharge is not very practical, no? You could do:

Optional Monk Slayer (It's faisable with a pool of 33 energy, but I prefer use a +5 energy dagger for a more comfortable 38 energy pool) :

Siphon speed
Black mantis
Temple strike
Black lotus (energy management and other opening)
Twisting fangs
(utility)
(utility)
Rez (whatever)

Just my 2 cents, but nice idea. I wonder if the snare of Siphon speed and the cripple condition stack.

Yanman.be · Feb 16, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Read the latest Game Mechanics article on gw.com. You'll know!

SotiCoto · Feb 16, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyunsai

To SotiCoto: Siphon speed is not a better opening for Black mantis thrust? 10 energy and 45 seconds recharge is not very practical, no? You could do:

Optional Monk Slayer (It's faisable with a pool of 33 energy, but I prefer use a +5 energy dagger for a more comfortable 38 energy pool) :

Siphon speed
Black mantis
Temple strike
Black lotus (energy management and other opening)
Twisting fangs
(utility)
(utility)
Rez (whatever)

Just my 2 cents, but nice idea. I wonder if the snare of Siphon speed and the cripple condition stack.

Perhaps its better as regards a hex for Black-lining.... but I'd suggested Dark Prison as a brief hex and temp-snare to hold the monk until the real snare was placed... and more importantly as a shadow-step. Siphon Speed is great, but is a perfectly viable snare in its own right (no need for Black Mantis) and lacks the shadow-step to get to the Monk (which is often at the back, behind all the other nasties out for blood)...

lightblade · Feb 16, 2007, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

[skill]Dark Prison[/skill][skill]Black Mantis Thrust[/skill][skill]Temple Strike[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill]

Not suggesting for the rest.
I mean... if you don't like using a Deadly Arts skill then you could switch in the first two for Death's Charge and Leaping Mantis Strike or somesuch. I just figure that Dark Prison will hold them down just long enough for Black Mantis Thrust to prevent kiting. Once you've got the four conditions on 'em... hammer away, or let someone else hammer away and get out of there.

Not only does the energy becomes a problem (the main reason why black lotus is my opening strike), but it's also slower. And by slower, I mean both the recharge on Dark Prison and the speed to apply daze. Daze as a second attack just doesn't pack the same kind of surprise as daze at start. Because by the time you done shadow step, monk is most likely to be casting guardian and/or shield of absorption on him/herself, your chance of successful assassination just dropped dramatically.

BoA is there to ensure everything cast under Daze in interrupted, including those that have 1/4 casts.

SotiCoto · Feb 16, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Then start with [skill]Disrupting Stab[/skill] instead... That'd sort that problem well enough.

Heck... if you really wanted, you could go A/Me, bring Zenmai along using a Beguiling Haze build, use Arcane Mimicry before battle... and have both!

I see what you mean about recharge though.
Question is... can you always kill the monk in time?

Care to try this one out on .... [wiki]Mungri Magicbox[/wiki]?

Yanman.be · Feb 16, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

That's 30 energy for a shadow step and a few seconds of daze?

lightblade · Feb 16, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Dazes' effect, even just for a few seconds, can be very deadly. For example...this vs. Shadow Prison burster 1v1, this build will definitely win because of the fact that Shadow Prison will end up interrupted.

African War Lord · Feb 17, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Rune of purity makes beguiling really suck. On the other hand I'll never forget the time I got revenge on a blinding surger when we cast our skills at the same time and I interupted that shit!! and rape took place. cops were called. Other than that it's too much energy to use.

Effigy · Feb 17, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

The x2 dual attack combo is affordable with Shadow Prison. Beguiling Haze costs x3 as much even before you factor in having to cast a snare hex. And all this to inflict dazed...

IMHO, you're better off keeping it simple and getting kills when you can. Sometimes your target will survive, but often they won't. It's not worth gimping yourself just to "guarantee" a monk kill, because even then it's not guaranteed if the monk is getting any support from their team.

Chamber Asgardian · Feb 17, 2007, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

95% of monks won't actually know you excist because the fact this build has next to no use. This skill combo has been seen before countless times. I want BoA to get a serious nerf in the new future in which it cannot be used. I'm tired of cookie cutting assassins that use builds but forget the fact the oponent can kite.

If you'd really like to make a build that can kill monks and impress us, why not make a build that doesn't include skills combos that have been seen 100 times over with a possible single skill change in there.

So, your trying to tell us that you want assassin skills to be heavily nerfed just b/c you can't find a way to counter another assassin's combo. Wow, no offense, but your acting like a baby, instead of ridiculing his build, lets see if you can make your own and see how well it does. People use that combo b/c it's viable and gets the job done. Why would you want assassin skills to be nerfed, we just got buffed and we have much more selection in our ways to kill these days. It's your choice to use it or not, get over it, your just one of those people who complain all the time b/c you keep being killed by today's metagame builds. WELL YOU KNOW WHAT! FIND YOUR OWN FREAKING COUNTERS AND MAYBE YOU WONT HAVE A REASON TO COMPLAIN ANYMORE!

lightblade · Feb 17, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by African War Lord

Rune of purity makes beguiling really suck. On the other hand I'll never forget the time I got revenge on a blinding surger when we cast our skills at the same time and I interupted that shit!! and rape took place. cops were called. Other than that it's too much energy to use.

Rune of Purity -20%
Silencing Dagger Tang +33%

I don't know which one is calculated first, but it does sound like Silencing Dagger Tang is winning.

Sqube · Feb 17, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

It doesn't matter which one is calculated first; it all comes out the same.

For ease of calculation, assume 10 seconds of Dazed:

(10 * 1.3) / 1.2 = 10.83333...
(10 / 1.2) * 1.3 = 10.83333...

It comes out to... what, an 8% increase in the length of the Dazed applied? I don't know if that's right, my mathematics are kinda hazy. That seems about right though.

Yanman.be · Feb 17, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

-20% = x*0.80 no?

so it's either (10*0.80)*1.3 or (10*1.3)*0.80...you can leave the brackets so...

The5thSeraph · Feb 17, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Leaving the brackets doesn't make a difference.

Yan... you're correct as regards it being 0.8 ... but no matter what order you combine the two in, the result is equal. Its around 1.0666666 (etc) ..
Essentially... the two all but cancel out. The difference is so tiny as to be irrelevant.

I'm not sure about PvP habits regarding runes and the like, but I don't think I'd want to waste a rune slot in decent PvE armour by putting in a Rune of Purity.

Sqube · Feb 17, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Yanman.be, the reason my calculations are off is because I used 1.2 instead of 1.25. I r smrt! I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, but my calculations seem to work, so fuzzy math FTW.

All that said, I gotta go with The5thSeraph when I wonder if dazed is a common enough condition in PvP to warrant a Purity rune.

Yanman.be · Feb 17, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

x/1.2 = x*0.8 right?

Lord Nibiru · Feb 17, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Beguiling Haze-golden phoenix-horns of the ox-failing spider-twisting fangs with way of the lotus and zealous dagger? maybe....

hondy · Feb 18, 2007, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chamber Asgardian

So, your trying to tell us that you want assassin skills to be heavily nerfed just b/c you can't find a way to counter another assassin's combo. Wow, no offense, but your acting like a baby, instead of ridiculing his build, lets see if you can make your own and see how well it does. People use that combo b/c it's viable and gets the job done. Why would you want assassin skills to be nerfed, we just got buffed and we have much more selection in our ways to kill these days. It's your choice to use it or not, get over it, your just one of those people who complain all the time b/c you keep being killed by today's metagame builds. WELL YOU KNOW WHAT! FIND YOUR OWN FREAKING COUNTERS AND MAYBE YOU WONT HAVE A REASON TO COMPLAIN ANYMORE!

You know chamber, I'm actually glad you said that because you provide a perfect example of what I'm talking about. This BoA, black lotus strike, twisting fangs ect build is a build used by all assassins. The point to my frustration is not relivant to combating them but how it's just that every assassin is running the same build! It's as simple as a cripple and run away to beat it.

I hate how this is working for the assassin, I often play my assassin in PvP and I never use a build at all similar to this. In fact it's even worth making a build that combats this assassin build it's so common!

Chamber if you at all call yourself an experienced assassin you'd know quite well that just because this is a popular type of build it is in no way the only option for assassins.

If I saw a build like this at the release of nightfall (when the last of the skills came out) I would say it's a fantastic build and try it right away. However it didn't and since I've seen this build over and over again I'd like to think there is more inititive to the assassins of guild wars.

Lord Nibiru · Feb 18, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

And I'm trying to use my builds.Only problem is when I write it here on forum ppl don't like it.For me,my builds works and THEY WORK because ppl don't know what I will use,and because that I have "that something" to kill all my targets and not to be killed

whobitz · Feb 18, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Why not use it if it will get you kills? Of course it's not the only option, but it is one of the stongest single spikes there is currently. If you don't like them, bring Mending Touch.

By the way, SP=66% slowdown, cripple=50% slowdown. They can still catch you if their SP lasts long enough (unless your source of cripple was Return or something).

I'd say avoid Beguiling Haze. Those few seconds of dazed aren't worth the energy. Usually dazed builds aren't trying to spike, they just sit there and wear down the caster. If your combo can kill them anyway, why waste the energy? You may get a kill you wouldn't otherwise here and there, but in the long run it won't be worth much.