Curse

Coloneh · Jan 25, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Avvys are really a gimmick. iv come to the conclusion that none of the avatar users have tried a decent dervish build using another elite. having an elite that is down for almost a minute and is a vital part of you build makes you a very unreliable teammate.

Dzan · Jan 25, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

iv come to the conclusion that none of the avatar users have tried a decent dervish build using another elite. having an elite that is down for almost a minute and is a vital part of you build makes you a very unreliable teammate.

And I've come to the conclusion you don't watch matches on obs mode.

dgb · Jan 25, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical

FINALLY Anet come up with a decent counter for the uber-overused Bonder monks.

Uh this gets a big W T F.

Bonders are seriously rare and have been for ages in decent PVP.
There's a great counter for them. It's called NR. It's been in the game since... Prophecies.

The only place I can think of that bonders see a lot of play is Fort Aspenwood but who honestly gives a flaming toss about that cesspit of scrubdom.

CagedinSanity · Jan 25, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

having an elite that is down for almost a minute and is a vital part of you build makes you a very unreliable teammate.

It shouldn't be too "vital" for you then. You should have skills that help you out without the avatar.
Killing a res skill would definately help, you can always replace the res with an avatar, giving you an extra slot for whatever you need.

Coloneh · Jan 26, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

And I've come to the conclusion you don't watch matches on obs mode.

okay, i worded that badly. people using avatars(other than HA/GvG dervs with melandru or greneth) haven't tried a build with a good elite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

It shouldn't be too "vital" for you then. You should have skills that help you out without the avatar.
Killing a res skill would definately help, you can always replace the res with an avatar, giving you an extra slot for whatever you need.

whats the point of using an elite if its not helping you?

glaz · Jan 26, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

im guessing, most useful means its both for pvp and pve?

in that case, il take melandru.

Str0b0 · Jan 26, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Avatars are PvP things, and even then of limited utility. Avatars in PvE = Noob

Living Parasite · Jan 27, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

I always thought that the avatar's would suck until I tried them out in PvP. They each have their uses.

CagedinSanity · Jan 28, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

whats the point of using an elite if its not helping you?

It does, for OVER A MINUTE. So what if it has an extra minute cooldown, that's just part of the balance. Killing a boss or zoning will recharge it instantly, don't make it sound like it's so useless when they're really not.

Coloneh · Jan 28, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

It does, for OVER A MINUTE. So what if it has an extra minute cooldown, that's just part of the balance. Killing a boss or zoning will recharge it instantly, don't make it sound like it's so useless when they're really not.

when are you only needing to fight for a minute? maybe in kourna, but once you get into the desolation single battles can last longer than 5 minutes even with a good group.dont tell me you kill a boss or rezone every minute.(they are of course useful for pvp.

Str0b0 · Jan 28, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

I have said it once and I'll say it again. EdA>any avatar. Reaper's sweep>any avatar. VoS>any avatar. This is all in PvE of course but if you run avatars in PvE you're a noob and you will get owned in Torment and Desolation.

Sir Mad · Jan 28, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I have said it once and I'll say it again. EdA>any avatar. Reaper's sweep>any avatar. VoS>any avatar. This is all in PvE of course but if you run avatars in PvE you're a noob and you will get owned in Torment and Desolation.

Sometimes I use avatars, sometimes I use other elites. I guess it makes me a noob then. But how come I didn't get "pwned" in Desolation or Torment? This is absurd. And as a side-note since you spend 90% of the time in Desolation as a worm the elite you bring makes no difference.

Now just tell me one thing: you say Reaper's Sweep is better than any avatar, but how often can you use it? Every 4 attacks. How often the bonus from, let's say Lyssa is active? Every 2 attacks.

And what about Vow of Strength? +40/50% damage? great! But you can't use attack skills and vs foes with a high AL, +50% of little damage is still little damage. Even normal attack skills with an unmodified damage bonus are better (yeah, even a +21 damage) - combined with Lyssa that's +60/70 damage, much better than what you can have with VoS when you're fighting Jade Armors for example, or foes in the high end areas.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jan 29, 2007, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I have said it once and I'll say it again. EdA>any avatar. Reaper's sweep>any avatar. VoS>any avatar. This is all in PvE of course but if you run avatars in PvE you're a noob and you will get owned in Torment and Desolation.

mmhmm sure I'm the noob even tho I used Balthazar in my Mystic Tank Build and successfully tanked my way through the Desolation and Torment while the warrior tank kept dying, sure yeah, I'm a noob.

Coloneh · Jan 29, 2007, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kijik Oni Hanryuu

mmhmm sure I'm the noob even tho I used Balthazar in my Mystic Tank Build and successfully tanked my way through the Desolation and Torment while the warrior tank kept dying, sure yeah, I'm a noob.

wow. you can out-tank a wammo? amazing. lets try to thik of a class that cant out-tank a warrior if tanking is their focus. Necro? nope, aura of the lich. rit? probably less tanking than a warrior. but my point is, warriors arent the greatest tanks in the world, theyr just easy to use.

Dean Harper · Jan 29, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Are you SERIOUS??? Y is Lyssa getting so much hate? Lyssa is my absolute FAVORITE form!!!! It can pwn any prof. +46 or so damage when they are using skills is AMAZING. Here's my thoughts on the forms:

1. Lyssa: Absolute pwnage with that damgae boost
2. Melandru: Very nice boost, but not #1 becuase of the high energy cost
3. Balthazar: Excellent for running, yet i dont run that much
4. Dwayna: Nice healing boost, but i dont use it often
5. Grenth: Good against monks and other dervs but not much else(i.e. enchant removal)\

Oh, and by the way, using avatars in PvE is NOT noobish, its just a fun way to get through the game. Heres the skill bar i usually use:

[skill]Chilling Victory[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Conviction[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Vital Boon[/skill][skill]Faithful Intervention[/skill][skill]Avatar of Lyssa[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

it works really well in pve and also in pvp

Steps Ascending · Jan 29, 2007, 04:00 AM // 04:00

I think the thing your guys are missing is...

in PvE (late-game of course), if you use a from you know you can't have it 24/7 (and it would be pretty boring if it was, personal and point-less opinion here. dont even answer to it).
--So either your build can work without it and still be decent, the form is there to burst or as a power-up when you need it (bosses and such).
-- Or it is situational, you're not going to put Lyssa on to swing on a war.

LightningHell · Jan 29, 2007, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Harper

Are you SERIOUS??? Y is Lyssa getting so much hate? Lyssa is my absolute FAVORITE form!!!! It can pwn any prof. +46 or so damage when they are using skills is AMAZING. Here's my thoughts on the forms:

1. Lyssa: Absolute pwnage with that damgae boost
2. Melandru: Very nice boost, but not #1 becuase of the high energy cost
3. Balthazar: Excellent for running, yet i dont run that much
4. Dwayna: Nice healing boost, but i dont use it often
5. Grenth: Good against monks and other dervs but not much else(i.e. enchant removal)\

Oh, and by the way, using avatars in PvE is NOT noobish, its just a fun way to get through the game. Heres the skill bar i usually use:

[skill]Chilling Victory[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Conviction[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Vital Boon[/skill][skill]Faithful Intervention[/skill][skill]Avatar of Lyssa[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

it works really well in pve and also in pvp

CRIMINAL not to run Wearying Strike along with Avatar of Melandru.

glaz · Jan 29, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Lyssa gets overlooked because the other avatars get mouth-watering buffs. Lyssa, on the other hand, has that massive damage boost, and honestly, i enjoyed using Lyssa in the Vabbi area.

But still, for most usefulness, i find Melandru to fit the bill.

and yes, it IS sriminal not to have Melandru+Wearying on a derv.

how come nobody gives any love to onslaught?

Sir Mad · Jan 29, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

CRIMINAL not to run Wearying Strike along with Avatar of Melandru.

lol I second that, but... he's running Lyssa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

wow. you can out-tank a wammo? amazing. lets try to thik of a class that cant out-tank a warrior if tanking is their focus. Necro? nope, aura of the lich. rit? probably less tanking than a warrior. but my point is, warriors arent the greatest tanks in the world, theyr just easy to use.

Elementalists are the greatest tanks in my mind. As a side-note, the last time I played with a warrior (don't tell me about "wammos": Mending and Healing Hands don't make you immortal...), that was in Eternal Grove, to get the last masters I needed. Guess what? I could tank alone (no monk) a siege turtle and the archers with it - the warrior couldn't that well.

A dervish with Veil of Thorns + Armor of Sanctity + Mystic Regeneration can tank constant moderate damage (from warriors, dervishes, rangers, etc) from various sources without the help of a monk. The only thing such a dervish can't do is to deal with a "spike" or sudden high damage from several foes at the same time (typically, ele spells such as chain lightning).

Str0b0 · Jan 29, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kijik Oni Hanryuu

mmhmm sure I'm the noob even tho I used Balthazar in my Mystic Tank Build and successfully tanked my way through the Desolation and Torment while the warrior tank kept dying, sure yeah, I'm a noob.

Nothing to brag about there. Avatars are gimmick elites and I guarantee you that if you stack my dervish build which doesn't use avatars against your Mystic Tank I'll stay in the fight longer, do more damage and have less e management difficulties than you will with Balthazaar.