Curse

Kit Engel · Feb 01, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Holy Veil also because you can pre-veil. Useful if you know the enemy opens with hexes, or might have Diversion (Shiro'ken mesmers!)

LightningHell · Feb 01, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Let's have a look at the alternatives when it comes to hex removal, and please note that I'm talking PvE healing monk atm:
Remove Hex: 2 sec cast time, no thanks
Inspire Hex: 20 sec. recharge no thanks
Smite Hex: OK, but no synergy with dwaynas
Convert hexes: hands down barf
Divert Hexes: very sexy, but in PvE other elites are sexier
Blessed light: Very nice, but PvE can be rather hex-heavy, so it doesn't always cut it, besides, i tend to take ZB with me sometimes as well.

Purge Signet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

@lightning hell, what on earth can be wrong with Dwaynas?

The same problem with all the other Healing spells. Dwayna's Kiss is worse, since it's conditional.

Effigy · Feb 01, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Kiss is conditional, but the condition is generally pretty easy to meet. It's just ridiculously good in most areas of PvE, where hexes get stacked like pancakes. I haven't used it much in PvP, mostly due to better alternatives, but enchantments are pretty common as well. I can see Kiss being very usable in a team with Tainted Flesh and/or Aegis chain, and of course with dervishes, although I haven't run it personally.

jesh · Feb 02, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Life Bond does not do the same thing as Life Barrier. Bond reduces damage from attacks only, Barrier prevents "damage" (ie. not "lifesteal" or "sacrifice" or "health loss") from any source. Even ignoring all of the other (admittedly minor) differences between the two, that one difference is significant enough to make Barrier a better skill.

Duh? That doesn't make it worth an elite slot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Again, a bonder is a good option if anyone is willing to play it. A barrier monk essentially gives the party permanent (though strippable) "Inc..............lblains).

That's where any protection is valuable, and I maintain that any sort of bonder is outclassed by an active protection monk who is skilled at what they do.

Burst Cancel · Feb 02, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Duh?

Don't give me lip you little tardnugget. Let's look at what you posted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Life Bond does the same thing

Which is wrong, period. Try talking back when you've actually earned the right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

That's where any protection is valuable, and I maintain that any sort of bonder is outclassed by an active protection monk who is skilled at what they do.

You're going to mitigate AoE with Prot Spirit? You're going to try and guess who's going to get hit by Lighthammer next, when all 8 members of your party are in range of the boss? I don't like playing bonder either, but being able to cut all incoming damage in half isn't trivial no matter how good you are at monking.

jesh · Feb 02, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

I've been playing since betas, I know what skills do. That includes Life Bond and Life Barrier.
If you're in doubt of a real protector's abilities, I'd be glad to monk for your sometime.
Thanks for the personal insult.

Age · Feb 02, 2007, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh
That's where any protection is valuable, and I maintain that any sort of bonder is outclassed by an active protection monk who is skilled at what they do.

Not really it all depends on where and it is not that hard to recast them and not all bonds get removed especially against physical damage or even elemental.It is negating damage not mitigating.I have been playing Monk in the Hall of Heros since beta and that mostly where I only played.

Sakki · Feb 02, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

ZB can be quite useful in pve if you understand how people generally think.

PUG's lack a lot of coordination and if you choose the most obvious target to heal, chances are that the other monk would heal the same teammate resulting in overhealing and wasting energy.

Party member 1 is at 50% hp
Party member 6 is at 50% hp

Most of the time the other monk on my team would heal Member 1, so I programmed myself to heal the less obvious target which is number6. It's a subconscious thing, people generally give those party members higher on the party list more priority then those lower on the list in a PUG.

But if several people are dead or below 50% then don't be afraid to spam ZB, but they should not be dead at all if you protted well. X)

Cebe · Feb 02, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Hmm, I see there's been a lively debate on the use of Life Bond Vs Life Barrier. I decided to go check them out, having never really played a protection monk personally. I have to say I'm with Burst Cancel on this one. After a read through of the skills there is a great difference... and in the notes on Guildwiki on Life Bond it reads "Unlike Life Barrier, Life Bond does not reduce the damage of offensive non-attack skills." So, this means if Life Bond were cast on the whole party before they go in to attack Droajam, Mage of the Sands (for instance) they would die as fast as they would have done without Life Bond...but Life Barrier would half the damage taken by his nasty, NASTY Sandstorm, right? Furthermore, Life Barrier does not redirect damage to the Monk. Personally, if you know a monk who likes spamming Blessed Signet it is a very worthwhile elite to have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

I've been playing since betas

Your point is?

bungusmaximus · Feb 02, 2007, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Purge Signet.

OK forgot that one, but you would have to put it on another character then a monk ImO, switching weapon set + 2 sec cast time is really too much hassle in a suicidal PuG. Convincing a PuG member to take it and expect him to have the right gear is even more hassle. In PvP+coordinated team Purge siggy is indeed quite godly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

The same problem with all the other Healing spells. Dwayna's Kiss is worse, since it's conditional.

So many PvE areas are so hex heavy that I can hardly call it conditional anymore.

Akhilleus · Feb 02, 2007, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Life Bond does the same thing, is non elite, and gives you energy in the form of Balthazar's, while Life Barrier does not.
I find that if you have two skilled monks in a group, a bonder is usually a waste of time. You're better off with active prot.

agreed.
overall, they'd be more effective pairing a WoH or glimmer of light healer with a zb, rc or (if they're feeling frisky) air of enchantment prot.

bonding has its uses, but for an 8-man team the lower recharge and caste time of regular prot skills increases the ability to use them where you need them, when you need them.
if, however, you can pretty much guarantee that the damage will converge on 1 or 2 specific players, then by all means take a bonder. but usually between the targeting system and enchantment removal an active prot will function far better.

READ:
also, may i suggest that if your brother insists on remaining a bonder, that he bring mantra of inscriptions? its massivly increases the energy gain from blessed signet.

Cebe · Feb 02, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

READ:
also, may i suggest that if your brother insists on remaining a bonder, that he bring mantra of inscriptions? its massivly increases the energy gain from blessed signet.

Way ahead of you, I already suggested this to him. He seems to prefer Mo/E. He seems to have no trouble keeping his energy up maintaining Life Barrier on 5-6+ players whilst spamming Reversal of Fortune and GoLE + Aegis. I tried a randomly amusing build in D'Alessio Seaboard as my monk: Retrubution, Mantra of Inscriptions, Blessed Signet, Signet of Judgement, Bane Signet, Leech Signet etc... That was fun! Maintaining Retrubition on all 6 party members whilst spamming the signets was pretty amusing! And no, I wouldn't do this in any high-end missions with a load of uptight wammos before you all get worried...

Anyhoo, was just wondering, what's people's thoughts on [wiki]Signet of Removal[/wiki]? I think it looks good and if you were going with a protection monk who uses enchantments like Aegis it could be good? I'm not sure...any thoughts? (Just to clarify, I'm NOT talking about using it in the build in my OP, btw - was just looking for other people's opinions on this skill)

Burst Cancel · Feb 02, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

agreed.overall, they'd be more effective pairing a WoH or glimmer of light healer with a zb, rc or (if they're feeling frisky) air of enchantment prot.

There's no point in using Air of Enchantment. In order for Air to be effective, it needs to be pre-cast on the target before your prots go down, and you only get use out of it if you continue protting that target. A lot of the time you're going to be protting a target with one or two spells right before they get hit, making Air largely pointless.

PvE rarely features enough condition stacking for RC to be worth bringing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

bonding has its uses, but for an 8-man team the lower recharge and caste time of regular prot skills increases the ability to use them where you need them, when you need them.
if, however, you can pretty much guarantee that the damage will converge on 1 or 2 specific players, then by all means take a bonder. but usually between the targeting system and enchantment removal an active prot will function far better.

The strength of the bonder is being able to mitigate damage to the entire party automatically, because everyone is pre-protted. Although they are certainly effective when you can guarantee that damage is concentrated on one or two tanks, they are even *more* effective (compared to active prot monks) when the damage is spread out. Active prots need to throw around Prot Spirits and Spirit Bonds for each additional target that comes under fire, making them less and less efficient the more people are taking damage. The bonder, however, is designed from the ground up to maintain spells on multiple party members, and that protection is always in place.

Again, the only real weaknesses of bonding in PvE is mass ench removal and boredom.

Bastian · Feb 02, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

Kiss is conditional, but the condition is generally pretty easy to meet. It's just ridiculously good in most areas of PvE, where hexes get stacked like pancakes. I haven't used it much in PvP, mostly due to better alternatives, but enchantments are pretty common as well. I can see Kiss being very usable in a team with Tainted Flesh and/or Aegis chain, and of course with dervishes, although I haven't run it personally.

QFT

Kiss > Orison or any other non-elite heals in the Healing Bar (as long as you're not running Prot primary and using GoH with 9 or 10 in Heal)

Shadowlion · Feb 03, 2007, 03:53 AM // 03:53

I like Word of Healing better.

LightningHell · Feb 03, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

I retract my statement. Although I still don't like Healing aside from Gift of Health and Infuse (sometimes), Heal Party, and Light of Deliverance, perhaps with a few exceptions.