Curse

Arwen Granger · Aug 18, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

If you have a Rit with you it only takes on eoe to be set, since the rit can heal the eoe spirit and make it last longer. Not many ppl have done the 3 or 4 man Urgoz yet so we have to take your word for it. As for drugs, yes plenty of caffein and nicotine on an Urgoz's mission.

We've got the ranger to be r/rt and bring draw spirit instead of troll (and flesh of flesh to replace rebirth) It's a little bit easier to setup the eoe bomb but not sure the scarifice of rebirth and troll are worth it.

ubermancer · Aug 18, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

So, can you still do it?

iwantje · Aug 18, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

How can Urgoz be killed after the nerf? hmmm ...we can ask him to lie down.. :-)

Arwen Granger · Aug 18, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

4 man is still do-able. you bring a br necro with grenth's balance.

Brother Cube · Aug 18, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

allo allo again. I don't know what it is causing it but I have yet to see a single shroud of silence. must have killed over 500 wolves now at least. I run shin jea legs, feet, head (divine) and arms, no chest. arms have a minor prot rune in them, head has a minor divine. I take off the head and hands for the bridge and sometimes forget to put them back on until like room 7 if Clinger reminds me. I run totem axe and that same +15, -1 pip energy regen off hand as I mentioned before. In any case, you have enough mana to cast breaker on the bridge wolves, just in case, and you have enough mana if you don't spam on the exhaustion rooms.

As already stated, if for some reason you get shrouded where I'm lucky and don't, shroud = 10 secs, Bond 13, gg.

As for the new run, eoe bomb still works eminently on everything, although I can say nothing of Urgoz because yesterday I tanked it and at room six/seven I somehow managed to fall straight through the floor, couldn't move, couldn't pick up the ranger's vamp weapon, couldn't die. we ended up tripping the wardens to try to kill/rebirth my corpse out of whereever it had got stuck, but didn't realize when you trip that room it extends way, way out into room seven, so teammates got flooded and dead.

That being said it might be a good idea for everyoen to carry a vampiric weapon, just in case. i don't expect to get bug-flogged and stuck in the floor all that frequently but that was a good 2 hours down the drain there.

We ran a BR necro for the mana recovery on our smiter (Clinger is now playing our smiter and his guildies played the ranger & necro) and for getting around that nasty little bit of EoE nerfing. Unfortunately didn't get to Urgoz to test it.

EOE still works GREAT at clearing mobs. The mages invariably damage themselves that little 10% or more by the time the archers/mellee attack themselves to death and the bomb still works.

Theoretically the necro fourth man using balance of grenth or whatever nukes/degens please you (go wild, get inventive) should cover the new, nerfed EoE. You only need to get 10% dmg on him, then your game of musical chairs w/ the exploders behind the pillar will cover the rest.

Will post screens when we kill urgoz around the new EoE restrictions. I have no doubt that it's possible, it just might take a while now that school is starting back up (monday for me and Clinger, no idea for his guildies or if they're even still in school O.o)

for those of you having trouble on the first room:
unless the first, center group spawns dead middle, you can either run to the left or right of them without aggroing them and trip the side groups to run into the center. once you see the side groups coming, back off, wait for them to all group. spell up, run in and catch their aggro. all grouped nicely you should grab ALL of the 3 groups' aggro, now run like hell backwards. You've got a lot of retreat space, USE it. the mages will start casting spirits the MOMENT you trigger aggro, if you run far enough back the spirits will be out of range when they cast, the mages will run forward to catch up with the mob, now have your EoE cast and drag them all back into it's range.

basically that's all you CAN do on the dredge, ever. Try to trigger the aggro and then run away so that the spirits get stuck too far back to hit you. on the special urgoz weekend i must have spent over 3 hours trying to find some way to cast (mana wasn't a problem while mobbed) THROUGH the disenchants, i just could never cover SB and prot fast enough. It might be possible but far easier is just retreating out of spirits range, and by retreating i mean running a fair distance if needed. Even on the very first room you've got plenty of backpeddle space.

Coocks · Aug 19, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Did anyone got a good way to kill urgoz with this build ? i've done in a couple of times in 3 but with the recent update , we got to him twice and we couldn't kill him anymore. Does grenth's actually work ? ss works ? any ideas?

Opeth11 · Aug 20, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Havn't tried it, but I believe that Grenth's would be a safe bet if you are planning to use it in your builds.

pasha monkey · Aug 21, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

ok, Anet can't take a joke and they really ended up nerfing my build, so lets all have a moment of silence for the now impossible 3 man urgoz build which was made impossible by the recent eoe nerf. If you have any ideas on how to make his work despite anet's murderous nature, let me know.

Wtf?Omfg!Bbq! · Aug 21, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

A moment.... this is gonna take a week to come to terms with this murder..

Avarre · Aug 21, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by pasha monkey

ok, Anet can't take a joke and they really ended up nerfing my build, so lets all have a moment of silence for the now impossible 3 man urgoz build which was made impossible by the recent eoe nerf. If you have any ideas on how to make his work despite anet's murderous nature, let me know.

Oh my, you're actually serious when you say that, aren't you? Hehe...

Welcome to MMOs, things become possible and things fade. Did you really think a way to 3-man an area originally intended for 12 people, in a build essentially easy enough for PuG members, did not come under the 'too good to be true' catagory?

duhu · Aug 21, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Actually i think they nerfed it more because of the unsanitary use in tombs, not especially for Urgoz farm. It just happened they touched this bit too with that nerf. And if u ppl are not too greedy and want to split 4 ways instead of 3, it works like a charm with 4 ppl, having in mind that the fourth party member will be bored to death by the time u reach Urgoz.

Snype · Aug 21, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Oh my, you're actually serious when you say that, aren't you? Hehe...

Welcome to MMOs, things become possible and things fade. Did you really think a way to 3-man an area originally intended for 12 people, in a build essentially easy enough for PuG members, did not come under the 'too good to be true' catagory?

I dont see how this is any different then 2 people clearing an area that is intended for 8 people (uw dual run). They havent even touched the 55 monk, despite its overuse in the temple of the ages

ubermancer · Aug 22, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

EoE has been used, for quite a long time, in HA. However, its recent role in griefing in AB/FA makes it likely that thats the cause.

In any case, if it cant be 3 manned anymore (likely still can be, but I am unsure how) a fourth man, a mesmer, running Dom should easily take down/disable the Guardian Serpents.

krypt1200 · Aug 22, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Well, I just decided to run this build with 2 other guildies a couple days ago, we are all three prepping our builds for the run, when I forgot that the EoE had been nerfed. Now, all of you are recommending a 4 man run now? What is that fourth build. Necro with grenths balance? Well would he have to cast that on every individual person? I mean shouldnt SoJ cover it? Basically, if you dont understand what im asking, as it's hard to explain it, could someone just please list the attributes skills armor etc for that fourth necro? thanks

bonefish · Aug 22, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Today we managed our first successful run with an additional N/Rt. We also verified that you actually don't need eoe to kill Urgoz (though I suppose it will be faster with eoe). Even funnier Mac, our heroic N/Rt, did it completely on his own -- all we had to do was to rez him twice or thrice.

We left the original 3 char build basically unchanged. The ranger took Favorable Winds instead of Read the Wind (you don't have to cast it while attacking and it's another spirit for the vamps), the smiter took Signet of Devotion instead of Dwayna's Kiss (as proposed in this thread), and the Bane Signet instead of Blessed Aura.

The N/Rt main skills were Spoil Victor, Awaken the Blood, Displacement, and rez. He also brought Blood Ritual to speed things up a bit, Union, Shelter, and Life Siphon, but really needed are only the former ones, I believe. That's the build in action:

We were hiding behind the pillar inside Urgoz's attack range, but well out of the popup area. There Mac placed the spirits, Awakened the Blood, then zigzagged to Urgoz, cast Spoil Victor, zigzagged back, let the Displacement spirit regen a bit, ran in, Spoil Victor, back out, spirit regen, in, SV, out, created new spirit,...

As you can see on the screenshot, we didn't have our ranger anymore at the time we were making progress with Urgoz. After initial 20 mins of unsuccessful experiments, the urge to get at least 4 hours of sleep before getting up to greet another workday claimed him. It took us another 40 min to find the strategy that finally worked and get the big guy down:

I'd be surprised, if it would take more than 10 min with eoe and qz (to have Displacement recharge quicker). When Urgoz is very low -- i.e. has less health than you have -- Spoil Victor doesn't have any effect anymore. We finally had the good idea to use 55 hp armor pieces and the vamp items we were carrying (as fallback solution for the "getting stuck" bug, btw) to get our health low enough for SV to trigger.

The Displacement spirit had lvl 6 btw, that is 200 hp, thus being able to absorb 4 potential hits. Zigzagging to Urgoz and back helped that it rarely got more than 3 hits (besides the others hiding within attack range and being shot at, too). This was rather important since the recharge time is 60s and recasting SV often (ideally thrice a minute) helped to keep Urgoz' regen periods as short as possible.

A few observations about Urgoz:

He has a *lot* hp. At least 10000, maybe more.
He has a natural permanent regeneration. Even hexed with Life Siphon he did regenerate. So it must be +4 at least, likely more.
Hexes wear off significantly earlier. We didn't do exact measurements, but I believe they last only 1/3 of their advertised time (same as for Rotscale).
Attack rate is 1.5s per shot.
If you are hit by one of his shots, you don't only get a good deal of damage and get hexed, you also lose all enchantments (rumors are that you even get interrupted). In particular, Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond don't prevent any damage or heal you; they are removed just as Spell Breaker is. But they help against damage from the exploding popups.
Ritu spirits work just fine, also for Urgoz' shots.

As a final word, I wouldn't rule out, that you can squeeze the skills we used into the original 3 man build. The ranger could take Displacement and free up a few attribute points. The smiter would replace SoJ (I don't think, it's really needed) by SV and move the divine favor attribute points to blood magic. Awaken The Blood would substitute the Bane Signet (originally Blessed Aura). The slot of the Signet of Devotion could again be filled by Dwayna's Kiss or some blood magic damage skill (Vampiric Gaze, Barbed Signet,...).

Have fun and don't forget to post your improvements!

Avarre · Aug 22, 2006, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

I dont see how this is any different then 2 people clearing an area that is intended for 8 people (uw dual run). They havent even touched the 55 monk, despite its overuse in the temple of the ages

Firstly, it takes three to clear all of underworld, second, 55+SS takes a little more skill of targetting than just smiter + tank + drop eoe. You still have a point, and the likely reason the dual uw run hasn't been hit is the length it's been around or Anet's unwillingness to make any major changes to Tyria.

Do note that the urgoz run, sans killing urgoz so easily, is not that badly damaged, and it's still possible as can be seen - the previous, 'cast spells and watch' run setup took a slight hit but the run is still possible.

Oh, and good job finding a new method for the run.

iwantje · Aug 22, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonefish

story....

Theory:

-Smiter: Loose SoJ take Grenths balance
-Then let the N/Rt do his thing, while the smiter puts on all the enchantments normally put on the tank. (Except for holy wrath!)
-Let the tank put all enchantments normally put on himself, put on the smiter.
-Let the ranger use symbiosis.
-Result 1200+ health. Walk up to Urgoz with the N/Rt and let Urgoz hurt u.
Spoil victor from the N/Rt will hurt Urgoz while Urgoz hurts the smiter.
-When the smiter is almost out of health, he uses grenth's balance on Urgoz.

If Urgoz really has that much health he should loose a very big chunk of health!

Is this doable??

EDIT: crap! my guildie already blew my theory to bits.. i forgot urgoz strips enchantments... hmm consider this a deathwish build then! :-)

bonefish · Aug 22, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Today two guildies and my humble self tested the three char build I theorized on in my previous post. I.e. the smiter drops SoJ in favor of SV. The divine favor skills are replaced by Awaken the Blood, and the Barbed Signet. The ranger replaces Distracting Shot by Displacement. 14 on marksmanship must suffice, 8 beast mastery is fine, since it can be pushed to 11 by mask swapping. There's more room for fine-tuning, I suppose.

The only real problem proved to be the energy degen bark. Without SoJ you have no smite damage anymore and ranger plus smiter didn't manage to kill the bark before the dazed condition wore of and it could easily heal itself up to full health. We finally gave up on the bark and proceeded to kill the serpent directly. Myself, playing the tank, had to go to play with the serpent first (with only the 2 permanents actually needed), with the smiter as far back as possible (ideally still out of the degen), so that the enchantments wouldn't get lost. When I was comfortably placed near the serpent and as close to the bridge as possible, the smiter went back over the bridge (it's still close enough for the enchantments) and the ranger rushed in, dazing and downing the serpent in a few seconds. We ignored the bark thereafter. It causes energy degen also in some parts of Urgoz' room, but not where we would be.

In the exhaustion + weakness room the Wardens were a bit annoying -- that's actually quicker with SoJ due to the knockdown triggering the effect of the ranger spirits they set up (-5 degen) -- but they weren't a real problem after all.

Everything else worked rather eventless, so we managed to reach Urgoz. It tooks us half an hour of experimenting until we got the hang of it (especially placing the eoe). A rank 14 SV is unsurprisingly a good deal less efficient than one ranked 18, but it gets the job done nevertheless.

The screenshot shows the position where to place the spirits (our eoe just died, since Mac draw a popup close to it on his last run back -- need to be careful). Once the position is found, the ranger stays there and casts the spirits, while the smiter does the SV runs. The tank can go close to the pillar and draw popups to have the eoe take some effect (ps and sb work fine there, if they explode too close). I'll spare you the screenshot showing us posing with the bows... :-)

Oh, some more remarks:

On the fireflower bridge. The tank can safely remove *all* armour pieces. The fireflowers provide you with more energy than needed and all flowers do enough damage to trigger the bond. After the second set of wolves have the tank die right there on the bridge and let the other catch up. The set of popups at the entrance won't appear. The second time someone needs to die on the bridge let it be the tank again (not the ranger); he works off DP very quickly (about 3% per wolf).
You don't have to kill the first exhaustion bark. Clear the room of wolves and let the tank head straight through the 2 dorn "door" thingies close to the wall. There the exhaustions ends and the two groups of wolves that pop up are no problem at all.
Regarding the "wolvies cast the shroud of silence or not" topic, they never cast it when I wield totem axe + prot symbol and always did when I wield Kepkhet's Refuge.
Regarding prot spirit, spirit bond, and low hp. Cast in whatever order, prot spirit doesn't affect spirit bond. Even with high DP and only < 300 hp spirit bond always triggered as long as the damage without prot spirit would be > 60. I usually ask the ranger to set up symbiosis, when I've low hp, so that more smite damage is dealt (someone did the math in the thread).

Have fun!

krypt1200 · Aug 23, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Ok, so far, this post has gotten quite lengthy, and with the frequent off-topic discussions we have in here about arguments, and when EoE got slightly nerfed, it may be hard for some of you to find the answers your looking for. STARTERS OF THE THREAD PLEASE CORRECT ME IF ANY OF THIS UPDATED INFORMATION IS WRONG!TY!

Armor and Gear can be found on the first page of this thread.

Tank Monk- not a 55 Mo/x
1) Spirit Bond
2) Protective Spirit
3) Spell Breaker {Elite}
4) Blessed Signet
5) Essence Bond
6) Blessed Aura
7) Life attunement
8) Vital blessing
ALL ATTRIBUTE POINTS INTO PROTECTION AND DIVINE FAVOR

Smite Monk Mo/N
1) Spoil Victor {Elite}
2) Dwaynas Kiss
3) Rebirth
4) Awaken The Blood
5) Holy Wrath
6) Retribution
7) Barbed Signet
8) Balthazars Spirit
ALL ATTRIBUTE POINTS INTO BLOOD MAGIC AND SMITE

EoE/Spirit Ranger R/Rt
1) Broad Head Arrow {Elite}
2) Favorable Winds
3) Symbiosis
4) Edge of Extinction
5) Quickening Zephyr
6) Draw Spirit
7) Flesh of Flesh
8) Displacement
14 MARKSMANSHIP 8 BEAST MASTERY

Thats the guide up to date so far, I've picked out what needed to be changed and I hope its right.

It is also recommended for both monks to wield a totem axe to stop the wolves from casting shroud of silence? (just a theory as of now, I believe bonefish posted it above)

tballz · Aug 23, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

I use a furious flame spitter 20% longer enchant 15% half recharge of spells -10 armor while attacking(yeah i got the 500k version) and the wolves dont cast it on me either and I also use the starting 5 armor which gives me regular energy anyway , this build is just great finally reached urgoz and after some tinkering and studying your picture we pulled out the win.