Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Mar 31, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Well, aside from On Fire, and Disease, the sin can drop every condition on the foe in the game in a matter of seconds... Not good if you're ill prepared and Mend Ailment got a nerfing in that it's no longer spammable... [heh heh, fun for condition lovers like me]

16 Dagger Mastery
10 Critical Strike
11 Deadly Arts

Black Mantis Thrust
Entangling Asp
Temple Strike {E}
Twisting Fangs
Impale
Siphon Speed
Expunge Enchantments
Plague Touch

Straightforward and deadly with backup from a Fragility Mesmer. Impale @ 11 Deadly Arts should downright obliterate your foe when you land Twisting Fangs, high crit rate coupled with 2 hexes for covering and such make this build quite ridiculous. Thankfully you can Temple Strike {E} right after Asp since Asp counts as a spell and won't remove your BMT lead icon from your foe.

Siphon Speed will help you get in as well as get out so it's all you'd need for moving, there are better, but none beats this hex in terms of sheer convenience...

Cover Impale with this hex for laughs!

Since your target will be both Dazed/Blinded, you don't have to worry about them hitting/spell casting you so your assassination is nearly guarunteed, it's your enemy's teammates that can kill you and if they shift gears and all aim at you, have Siphon Speed get you the hell outta there to a friendly monk who can heal ya up... If you get conditioned with On Fire or Disease, you can p. touch it to your victim [contrary to belief, P. Touched victims can't disease you back...]

You can strip your foe of any enchantments, but in order to land hits if they're stanced, you'll be in trouble, that's one of the most glaring weaknesses to this build, where my other builds had wild strike / Expose Defenses...

P. Touch makes you immune to conditions and makes your target more miserable, hence good synergy [and I love this skill to death]

If one can stick a self-heal in there for emergencies, I'm all ears, other wise, I don't see how I can pile on any more conditions to this build.

For the record, with these stats, and without proper healthcare insurance from a good monk, I can all but guaruntee that all the conditions alone will MORE than kill your hapless foe...

Any ideas?

[btw, I'd have used the search button if it wasn't broken and the google didn't help...]

edit: for a heal, you COULD get 9 crit 9 deadly, 8 shadow, and replace Impale with Shadow Refuge, but uh... Would that help kill at all?

Yukito Kunisaki · Apr 03, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Wow, no answers after a few days, there isn't another sin capable of doing more conditions then this?

I suppose not, someone say something regarding impale then. Would there be a better skill to toss in?

I'd hate for this to be a 'perfect' build where there's only 1-2 weaknesses and it's nigh unstoppable...

unholy guardian · Apr 03, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

i like the build, when factions comes out ill have to try it =) it sounds likea a great spike for pvp, but i still dont see assiasins as a crazy go lucky pve person like most other classes

but if you through in a bad monk ur kinda dead

undeadpolice · Apr 04, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

just becareful of warriors. As a warrior i love to get conditions.... 3 conditions = full life healed. ^^

Yukito Kunisaki · Apr 04, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Little note there trying to cast while dazed..., usually doesn't work...

of course, your monk will save ya ^_^

Evilsod · Apr 04, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Hehe, you might be able to deal a monk some serious damage. Sooner or later your gonna get a warrior looking for a new squishy toy jumping you from behind.

Siren · Apr 04, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Hehe, you might be able to deal a monk some serious damage. Sooner or later your gonna get a warrior looking for a new squishy toy jumping you from behind.

Precisely why he could bring Return instead of Impale. Actually...screw that. He should keep Impale and drop Siphon Speed.

If he's using Siphon Speed as his escape skill, Return will be much better for it. It Cripples the foes adjacent to him (good for the Warrior snare), and also teleports him back to his target ally. I haven't checked the recharges, but he wouldn't be using Return all the time anyway, so it should be fine. If getting in range will be a problem, he could replace Plague Touch with Death's Charge. Granted, he loses his self-cond-removal, but if the Monks are paying attention, that may work out just fine.

All in all, a solid build, but I would recommend Return instead of Siphon Speed. That's my only major recommendation. All the rest is pretty much incidental and thinking-out-loud.

Yukito Kunisaki · Apr 05, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Siphon Speed serves as a nice dual purpose skill, at 5s. recharge, [I hope it stays that way], it's good for both snaring, and getting the hell outta there...

Return would work but then I lose my containment ability, unless I land the Black Mantis Thrust after using Impale, but I also lose the cover hex that's Siphon Speed, so that's probably the reason I'm sticking with it...

Good ideas though, any more?

Siren · Apr 05, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I'd have a teammate bring a cover hex for you, like possibly the Frag Mesmer using Necro secondary with Parasitic Bond. See, depending on Siphon for your cover hex, snare and escape tactic is really risky. Consider what cover hexes are used for, eh? They're used as a buffer for hex removal. Your Siphon Speed gets removed and you've lost 1) your cover hex; 2) your snare; and 3) your means of escape.

You've already got a snare with the Impale-->Black Mantis Thrust, since Black Mantis Thrust Cripples the hexed target. On top of that, you've got Entangling Asp for a KD following that up in case the Cripple gets removed. Then you've also got Temple Strike hitting after that, which is helpful if you're targeting a Monk. And then Twisting Fangs, which will trigger Impale's bonus damage.

Siphon Speed is pretty much unnecessary in this build. And actually...if you're looking to do some more Frag damage during your escape, Return Cripples adjacent foes as you warp back to your target ally. ~_^

Spoony · Apr 05, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

forget about mend ailment, wait if a team will have a martyrer! Then he will need a 2nd monk, restore condition one.. hey ur builds nice

. Although, theres no healing skills

.

Yukito Kunisaki · Apr 07, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

I'd have a teammate bring a cover hex for you, like possibly the Frag Mesmer using Necro secondary with Parasitic Bond. See, depending on Siphon for your cover hex, snare and escape tactic is really risky. Consider what cover hexes are used for, eh? They're used as a buffer for hex removal. Your Siphon Speed gets removed and you've lost 1) your cover hex; 2) your snare; and 3) your means of escape.

You've already got a snare with the Impale-->Black Mantis Thrust, since Black Mantis Thrust Cripples the hexed target. On top of that, you've got Entangling Asp for a KD following that up in case the Cripple gets removed. Then you've also got Temple Strike hitting after that, which is helpful if you're targeting a Monk. And then Twisting Fangs, which will trigger Impale's bonus damage.

Siphon Speed is pretty much unnecessary in this build. And actually...if you're looking to do some more Frag damage during your escape, Return Cripples adjacent foes as you warp back to your target ally. ~_^

Very well said, in fact, unless I'm in random, I most certainly would use this build if I had someone with Para bond on my team to cover Impale... Best idea evar!!!

Final build?

16 Dagger Mastery
10 Critical Strike
11 Deadly Arts

Black Mantis Thrust
Entangling Asp
Temple Strike {E}
Twisting Fangs
Expose Defenses
Return
Expunge Enchantments
Plague Touch

There it is, as far as I can tell, the most perfect MASSIVE Disruptor/Condition piling Assassin you can possibly make... Your foe is not casting anything due to your swinging while they're under dazed, and I've decided to vy for anti-defenses vs. massive Impale spike so the hex that is Expose Defenses would make you pretty much a 'perfect' sin if you're foes are busy dealing with the rest of your team and you land on your target in time!

Your foe is now defenseless due to smart skill acquisition, you've got your ninja escape skill, snare, and all the conditioning skills under the sun, if piled on hard enough, the damage you've dealt is already enough to kill any target, [including those warriors thanks to blinding and armor ignorance techniques]

Thanks a ton for your help people!

swordfisher · Apr 09, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

This looks to be a very strong build (though I have to point out that unless you're using a major, you've got one more attrib point than is possible- I'd lose a point on crits and keep the 11 deadly for 9 second expose).

expose (10)->black mantis (5)-> [entangling asp (10)]-> [expunge (10)] ->temple (15)->twisting (10) is a rather expensive combo, but with guaranteed hits from expose, it may well be possible to pay for it with crits and zealous. The skills in brackets are ones I consider optional, and it seems like it's only possible to choose one or the other, not both (due to energy cost, with an unlimited energy pool that full chain is possible).

All in all, it looks like a good one-shot killer (ie, run in and unload, run out and repeat when you've got a full E bar). By staying out of the battle (as return helps you to do), you minimize your need for self-defense and self-heal. Nice build.

I'd appreciate it if you'd look at my R/A, here. It runs a very similar attack chain, with the intent of piling on conditions, and I'd like to know what you think.

Yukito Kunisaki · Apr 10, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

You got me, or, to be bonkers...
heh heh

16 dagger mastery
11 critical strikes
13 deadly arts

wear 3 sup. runes and NEVER get hit! [if you're playing smart that is, lol]

I'd wear sup vigor rune and the highest "of Fortitude" I could get and hope that a monk could give me vital blessing [lol]

fallot · Apr 15, 2006, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Laying down conditions for their own sake doesnt sound like the basis of a good build. Plus I dont see how it can work effectively off paper. Do you have enough energy to perform Temple Strike after Entangling Asp ? IMO you should get rid of Asp, its a superfluous ability that hinders your effectiveness.

Siren · Apr 15, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

Laying down conditions for their own sake doesnt sound like the basis of a good build. Plus I dont see how it can work effectively off paper.

Lay the conditions down on a Monk that either: A) is the one handling most of the hex/cond removal on his team or B) whose team doesn't have effective hex/cond removal...and you've got condition stacking (with Dazed and Blind) on a target that can't get those conditions removed easily.

Quote:

Do you have enough energy to perform Temple Strike after Entangling Asp ?

He should be all right. Using Zealous daggers will help, and if he can find room for Critical Eye, it'll be even better.

Quote:

IMO you should get rid of Asp, its a superfluous ability that hinders your effectiveness.

Asp gives KD and a first poison infliction. It doesn't hinder his effectiveness at all. Especially if he's targeting a Monk who's trying to heal himself. KDs suck when you try to remove a condition but find yourself on the ground instead, with another condition added on.

Hiphen · Apr 16, 2006, 06:43 AM // 06:43

I played a build simlar to that the 1st preview weekendand it worked very well. The second weekend I think they nerfed the energy on an assassin and I ran into MAJOR energy problems so bad the build didnt work. I see that problem here as well. Anyways good luck with it

fallot · Apr 16, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

He should be all right. Using Zealous daggers will help, and if he can find room for Critical Eye, it'll be even better.

You require a greater energy pool to chain attacks like that, not an increase in energy over time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Asp gives KD and a first poison infliction. It doesn't hinder his effectiveness at all. Especially if he's targeting a Monk who's trying to heal himself.

It prevents him from chaining the first three skills. It has a 20 second recharge to boot. If its in the build just to add another condition then this becomes a gimmick. It might be useful as a cover for Dazed and Blind if you could perform it after Temple Strike, but IMO not otherwise.

Spoony · Apr 16, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Conditions truly hurt(sometimes, muahah), thats actually what the assasins were made for after all. For some reason, i feel this ones build might work good in groups of them. Perhaps u would give a suggestion, on a 8vs8 build of this sort?

Siren · Apr 17, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

You require a greater energy pool to chain attacks like that, not an increase in energy over time.

You require a greater energy pool, certainly, but an increase in energy regen will absolutely help. Let's suppose the following:

Impale/Expose Defenses-->Black Mantis Thrust-->Entangling Asp-->Temple Strike-->Twisting Fangs

5E/10E+10E+10E+15E+10E

Total energy used: 50E or 55E over a span of approximately 7 seconds.

Within those 7 seconds, the player is attacking approximately 5 times. With Zealous daggers, he's gaining at least 5 energy. If he replaces Expunge Enchants with Critical Eye (which I think is a wise move), he'll get an additional 3E per critical hit. Factoring just Zealous gain and Criticals, that's a total of at least 9E over 7 seconds.

Add 3 pips of regen there and you're looking at 3 energy every 3 seconds, which gives a total of 6E over the 7 seconds of attack.

At the very least, he'll be getting 15E back over the course of the chain. If he snags a few more Criticals, that 15E becomes 18E.

That's entirely viable, especially when one of the purposes of Assassins is to get in fast, unload, then get back out (assassination). This build is pretty perfect to that end.

And let's not forget he could very well have Necro Blood Rit/BiP support from an ally.

Quote:

It prevents him from chaining the first three skills. It has a 20 second recharge to boot. If its in the build just to add another condition then this becomes a gimmick.

It doesn't prevent him from chaining the first three skills if he has proper e-management/support.

Your KD point is moot, because KDs, especially versus a target who is trying to defend against you, are not a gimmick.

The 20-second recharge is also a moot point, because he's not looking to be in there for more than 10 seconds in the first place. He's getting in quick, ganking his target with condition and damage infliction, then using Return to get out. He won't give a shit about a 20-second recharge for Entangling Asp. lol

And Asp is certainly not a gimmick skill here. It serves a dual purpose: extra condition infliction and KD. Not to mention you could use it as a snare, too.

Quote:

It might be useful as a cover for Dazed and Blind if you could perform it after Temple Strike, but IMO not otherwise.

Entangling Asp

Temple Strike

Twisting Fangs

Falling Spider

Judging by the skills he can follow-up with, he'll have plenty of covers for the Dazed and Blind after Temple Strike. Falling Spider costs 5E and would be tremendously useful in a build of this nature.

Also worth mentioning is Mantis Sting, a Lead Attack that can Cripple the target foe without needing a Hex, which can potentially save 5-10E.

His build will do fine. lol

fallot · Apr 17, 2006, 07:17 AM // 07:17

All of the details you've posted will help the Assassin maintain his energy at reasonable levels, but will not allow him to chain attacks. He needs energy right before a skill connects, because gains only apply when you actually hit the target.

Therefore, with 32 max energy, the combo of Impale/Expose will cost 15E, leaving him with 17E total. Now to use both Black Mantis Thrust and Entangling Asp simultaneouly, he requires 20E. But thats not a big problem, as a few attacks will give you enough energy to chain these two skills. However, once you get to 20E and use these skills, you now have 15E to recoup to use Temple Strike.

Now Temple Strike is arguably the best skill on this bar and should be used as quickly as possible for maximum effect. Instead, the foe is given a window of oppurtunity where the threat of the Assassin is diminished.

Quote: