Curse

lorinton · Feb 11, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I'm also asking this about PvE in a separate thread.

This isn't a rant, it is an attempt to highlight significant weakness in the new paragon and solicit discussion to find strengths. I tried for two solid days to find a fun AB build after the nerf and finally gave up. I'm about to give up on my PvP paragon to make space for something else but I really enjoyed the paragon so if someone has suggestions I'll definitely give them a try.

I've used many different P/W, P/Me, P/Mo and P/E builds extensively in AB and found fun, strength and weakness in each of them. I found a P/E fire build the most fun as it was useful in a wide range of situations and provided good synergy between the professions. I'm struggling with it now due to how hard ToF was hit.

The main problems I've found with the new AB paragon are:

1) Motivation healing works poorly as it only affects party members. Its very hard to stay with all party members throughout the match. This makes the rather modest paragon healing ineffective. This was a problem before the nerf but is offered in explanation of why I don't use the motivation line.

2) Stand Your Ground only affects party members. At 15 energy this is too expensive in AB. Good assassins still kill the paragon in short order, regardless of the armor boost. Other armor boosts are more flexible and useful in AB but I usually go for a damage skill instead.

3) Can't effectively melee. Builds like the ToF Tank on GuildWiki have energy problems as caster and ranger allies end up out of shout range. Even with a zealous axe it was hard going. Not to mention that its uncommon to have opportunities to make full use of Triple Chop and Whirling Axe in AB.

4) At half its previous duration They're on Fire is now an energy drain. I'm finding it hard to justify with its reduced damage reduction. In AB, it was already hard to keep more than half your foes on fire. ToF used to provide about 20% effective party damage reduction, now its around 15% at twice the cost. If it retained a 20s duration it would still be useful. Its not useful at all for personal benefit now.

5) Soldier's Fury requires a chant or shout to be effective. This wasn't a problem before the nerf. Now there are no long lasting paragon shouts or chants that provide a significant benefit. Warrior has some options but eliminates the option for other secondaries for fun, variety and synergy. Aggressive Refrain has its own problems with secondary profession variety due to its high initial energy cost. Overcoming the initial energy cost by keeping it up constantly in AB is a major challenge as it requires you to stop for a chant or use an energy based shout.

6) Aside from eliminating variety, relying entirely on the spear for damage has its own problems. Quite a few opponents are able to block or evade a large percentage of attacks. Reduced adrenaline gain means fewer good adrenaline based spear attacks. The paragon doesn't have a good way to mitigate this and must rely on a melee secondary profession to do so, again reducing variety. So, while DPS against test dummies is about the same as my assassin had before his recent boosts, DPS against many real opponents is greatly reduced.

7) I don't mind not having a skill that attacks multiple opponents like the assassin, ranger and warrior have. I am annoyed at having no useful skills to mitigate incoming attacks. There is no mid line safety in AB and no guarantee that your allies will be able to heal or protect you. You plan to either kill faster or reduce damage more than your opponent, run away or die. The paragon rarely kills faster. ToF used to provide usable damage reduction but wasn't useful for breaking attack chains like blocking skills can be. Sometimes it saved me, sometimes it didn't. It was not overpowered in AB. Run away seems to be the option now, the paragon actually has skills for that...

lorinton · Mar 04, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04

I gave AB a try again after using spear and command builds in PvE and RA. I've decided command in these small scale, uncoordinated environments isn't that useful and ended up focusing primarily on spear. It wasn't bad but I didn't find it very interesting. I played with a shock and awe build in RA but didn't think it would be useful in AB.

I had a chance to run a bunch of AB matches with guildies so I felt there was a relatively high probability of being with most of the party throughout the match. So I decided to give motivation another try. With a smart team of W/Mo, A, E and P this build worked well. It might not work so well if the paragon is the only physical in the party as a front line really helps keep your health up. While we had good durability we did need to avoid encounters where we were outnumbered without positional advantage or packs of elementalists (if they're good anyway) but the typical AB wammo, dervish or sin that charges thinking they're going to own your caster, sin or warrior might be surprised at how quickly they die when said party member survives their initial attack burst.

Its also essential that the party stay within shout range for healing.

Spear 11+1
Command 3
Leadership 8
Motivation 11+1+3

Survivor's insignias with full vitae except for the attribute runes.
Spear and shield with +30 HP mods. I carry furious, zealous and vampiric spears.

[skill=card]Spear of Lightning[/skill][skill=card]Vicious Attack[/skill][skill=card]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill][skill=card]Chorus of Restoration[/skill][skill=card]Ballad of Restoration[/skill][skill=card]Angelic Bond[/skill][skill=card]Signet of Synergy[/skill][skill=card]Finale of Restoration[/skill]

Put Finale of Restoration on yourself then use Angelic Bond on whoever will charge into the fray first. Stay back to avoid taking direct damage for as long as possible. The paragon is quite durable so you don't need to fear direct damage as long as your party takes care of their responsibilities in the engagement. Under direct damage, adrenaline builds faster so it is somewhat compensating but its an unnecessary complication if it can be avoided. Toss spears and chant BoR and place FoR on whoever needs it as energy and recharge permit. When adrenaline builds up, fire off CoR first, followed by GftE to keep your own health up. Reserve SoS for whenever you or a party member needs a quick heal that can't wait for BoR and FoR.

Don't forget to toss spears.

Even though the skillbar might lead you to think otherwise, you're primarly a damage dealer that also happens to be healing the party as a result of throwing spears!

If we had a real healer in the group I'd switch to spear 15, motivation 12.

Spura · Mar 06, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I find angelic bond lame.

For your complaints about assassins: use shield bash or if p/me use hex breaker, totally screwes usual shadow prison assassins

Here's one of my paragons for AB:
P/E
Icy Spear of Enchanting
Water : 10
Leadership: 9+1
Spear Mastery: 11+1+3
Rest in command + 1

Swift Javelin
Stunning Spear(E) {this one can be swapped)
Go For The Eyes
Steam
Frigid Armor
Anthem of Flame
Aggressive refrain
Conjure Frost

At start of AB cast Aggressive and then spam Anthem of Flame. You will be at full energy when the match starts.
So we have 15 spear mastery which is same DPS as sword warrior, but with 25% IAS and a conjure on top of it. Damage is amazing.
Keep Conjure Frost on. Energy is tight(GTFE is there for energy) so use Frigid armor only when you see SF ele or something.

You also have the ability to inflict blind with: Anthem of Flame+Swift Javelin+Steam
And you have ability to inflict Daze with Anthem of Flame + Stunning Strike

Also because you are enchanted with conjure, the Swift Javelin flies at double speed and cant be blocked. So the above blind combo can be applied even if target is ranger in stance.

Of course the problem is lack of healing and tight energy management(you have to be careful not to spam Javelin or Frigid armor).

I usually play this without healer and it still rocks.

Treg Q · Mar 06, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

I am running fun mesmer build is AB with my friends. We have 4x Me/X with:

[skill=card]Simple Thievery[/skill][skill=card]Arcane Thievery[/skill][skill=card]Arcane Larceny[/skill][skill=card]Inspired Enchantment[/skill][skill=card]Diversion[/skill][optional][optional][optional]

And we are laughting on TS and telling each other what new skills we have and used them back against enemys. Funny thing was last night when i got riposte and aura of displacement. I blocked warrior's attack and teleported away and he was like WTF?!

clawofcrimson · Mar 06, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

^ is this the right thread for this? we are in the paragon threads

phan · Mar 14, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

hey well i have a funny build , it can beat every char 1on1 [in the 20AB's] i played with him

12+1 [leadership]
12+1+3[spear mastery]

spear of lightning , barbed spear , blazing trow , mighty trow , anthem of flame , the 25ias skill [forgot the name xD] the elite +100% adre skill , and the one where you get X amount of health for every player near you ...

basiclly you just bring up the 3 shoutsq
and you make sure the 25ias skill is up all round by casting AOF every 10seconds [the ias skill lasts 24secs] and mass conditions the enemy will prob have something like 3 + 7 life deg + much damage + fast ias + +100% adre will keep you tossin yer attacks all the time ... when in health probs run or use the heal skill

1VS1 = you a winnner ^^