Curse

shaderaven · Mar 08, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Hellow, I'm new to the ranger class and although I have all the three chapters I have never played prophecies before - so I made a Ascalon ranger to enjoy the first chapter campaing. The problem is I really like the primeval set so while taking my time to enjoy the Phropecies with quests and atmosphere and all... at the same time I also like to run my character as fast as possible through nightfal. And to be honest i have the feeling I pretty much fail at rangers. My paragon and assassin all were moving much faster and efficient through the campaing.

At the moment I run the following build:
1. Dual Shot
2. Forked Arrow
3. Burning Arrow [E]
4. Troll's Unguent
5. Kindle Arrows/Ignite Arrows
6. Favorable Winds
7. Flail
8. Charm Animal (Margrid carries a pet ress)

I use vampiric shortbow of fortitude and mixed scout/druid armor. I saw that shortbows are often bashed as useless around here, but I don't have problems with its range (meaning that I don't die often unless all the party is dead...don't know what other benefits better range can offer)
Attribues: something like Marks 11+1+1 Exp 9+1 BM 5 WS 7

At first (in ascalon and against bugs and such in ista/kourna) I was doing ok, but now that I start fighting organised kournan forces I'm starting to perform less and less optimal. The countless dervishes thorns + sanctity combo is pretty devastating turning my double shots into 0, 0, -5, 0, 0, -5 mockery and the stance happy ranger's aren't much better (tried using crossfire, but it was hardly much better). I have wild blow on koss, enchantment and condition removal on my monk hero... but still... it somehow ain't working too well. I'm afraid once the demon's and margonites start comming it will be even worse.

Can you recomend me some skill/weapon/hero setup that will take me through the nightfall campaing faster and easier without some hard to reech elites or need for other human players.

arohk · Mar 08, 2007, 11:07 AM // 11:07

You are trying to do too many things at the same time, if you want pure damage use marksmanship, if you want to degen use wilderness survival, if you want to use pet use beastmastery, NOT all at the same time...

Try this if you still want to use burning arrow (standard BA build):

Atributes: Expertise 12+1+1, marksmanship 9+1, Wilderness Survival 9+1

Burning arrow (Elite)
Distracting shot
Savage shot
Apply poison
<free slot>
Natural stride
Troll Unguent
Rez sig or Sunspear Rebirth Sig

Preferably use a longbow/recurve with +5energy and poison lenghtning mod.

For free slot you can use mending touch if you go /Mo or Signet of malice if you prefer /A.

Feel free to PM me ingame if you have any more doubts.

IGN: Arohk Volfield

shaderaven · Mar 08, 2007, 11:16 AM // 11:16

The problem is that due to my internet connection and my own inexperience... I suck at interupting pretty badly so one of the best ranger assests savage/distracting is lost on me.

arohk · Mar 08, 2007, 11:28 AM // 11:28

I use distracting shot to interrupt slower spells/skills and savage shot to spread poison faster (i have sucky connection too).

santaclaus66 · Mar 08, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I would definately swap flail for Lightning Reflexes.
Eventhough Flail can last a bit longer, the slowdown on movement would not be my interest, I'd rather be able to block attacks.

Jetdoc · Mar 08, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

1. You're really pushing the limit splitting your attributes between four lines.

2. Since you have no Beast Mastery skills on your line, taking a pet is almost a waste of a slot since you're playing with a full-sized hero group.

3. The same can be said for Wilderness Survival, seeing that you probably are carrying hero monks as well.

Try maxxing out Expertise and Marksmanship, and focus on spreading degeneration (as your party is already pretty damage-heavy). Poison, Bleeding, and Burning can really take a group of Kournans down quickly, if you change targets BEFORE they die and spread the condition love to everyone. Even Kournan parties with monks can't focus on healing everyone at once...

SnipiousMax · Mar 08, 2007, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by santaclaus66

I would definately swap flail for Lightning Reflexes.
Eventhough Flail can last a bit longer, the slowdown on movement would not be my interest, I'd rather be able to block attacks.

If you are having problems with a five second slowdown... -shakes head-
Besides Natural Stride makes a great cancel should you really need it.

@ the OP

Jet nailed the comments I would make. It's looks like you're trying to get the best of a couple different worlds, rather than picking a feature and sticking with it. I agree that you're pet isn't going to be a huge help, unless you have a few skills to back it up. If you are planning on running Burning Arrow, then I'd suggest using Apply poison as well. Even with the Double 2x Shots, you're damage is still going to be a bit flaky on a Ranger. You CAN deal alot of damage really quickly, but it's not really consistant if you choose to go that route. Usually if you want to play some sort of Spike, then you need to bring two other Ranger heros, and have them hit the same target at the same time. (seems to me that EvilSod was the one that used that play style...So he'd be better able to give you pointers)

Rather, I'd run something like:

[skill]Burning Arrow[/skill][skill]Crossfire[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

That will give you two optional slots. If you wanted to keep your /W secondary Flail would be fine to bring, and boost your damage a bit. Personally I'd switch to a /Mo secondary and bring Mending Touch. For the other optional skill, I usually bring Screaming Shot or another interrupt. Despite your connection, it is generally a good idea for a Ranger to have at least one interrupt. There are plenty of devestating spells that have a comfortable cast time to interrupt. Crossfire means you'll always be able to at least poison those stance Rangers, and the more enemies you have afflicted with conditions, the more damage you are dealing!

This build is a little energy tight, so I always suggest running 14 in Expertise (which usually means running a Superior Marks Rune, and a Major Expertise Rune) So your Attributes would be something like:

14 Marks
14 Expertise
9 WS

For your Hero Setup I would bring:

1.) MM - yes it's a bit cookie cutter, but MM's soak up a ton of damage, and deal alot of damage. Since it's a AI mm, I'd let him use a mix of fiends and Horrors. Additionally, it wouldn't be to much of a stretch to make him a Death/Blood Hybrid so he can bring Order of Pain.
2.) Warrior - Let this guy focus on damage. Don't worry to much at all about defense or self heal, just make sure he's dealing alot of damage. Leave one slot for a utilty skill like a shout or distracting blow(my favorite).
3.) Another damage dealer. The Henchmen Monks do not do too bad of a Job... but the henchmen damage dealers are pretty bad. So I'd use all of your Hero slots to bring damage dealers.

shaderaven · Mar 08, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Can you point me to some thread where I can find good builds for MM necro and warrior heroes? I'm little low on the money at the moment so can't afford all these 1Ks for the skills to test arrownd myself.
And my experience with both classes is a bit limited.
I'll be using either Ele/Rit or Barrage Ran/Par for my 3rd hero I guess - depending if I need more interupts or not.
Anyway - thanks for the advices.

XvArchonvX · Mar 08, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Rather, I'd run something like:

[skill]Burning Arrow[/skill][skill]Crossfire[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Natural Stride[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

qft.

This is what I tend to run in PvE . For the rest of the skill bar, I generally bring Trolls and mending touch, but these skills should be optional and adapted to your setting to increase efficiency. For example, if you are going against Margonite Warlocks, then you might want to bring Holy Veil to remove Faintheartedness.

Some things to keep in mind with the skills you are currently using is that Forked Arrow is really hard to be an efficient skill unless you have a team built specifically for it. Running two 10 energy attack skills is generally going to cause energy problems and if it doesn't, then you probably aren't spamming attacks as much as you could be. One of the ranger's greatest strengths is the ability to interupt, so distracting and/or savage shot should almost always be in your skill bar when you use a bow. Ignite Arrows looks good in theory, but causes very little additional damage since the damage is elemental and will trigger enemy scatter since it does AoE damage. Flail can also be a bit inneficient for a ranger at times unless it's in a barrage build since it generally can't be kept up continually with a bow while attacking a single target. Finally, as suggested by others, drop your pet. With the exception of Barrage/Pet teams, it's generally rather inneficient to bring a pet outside of an almost full beastmaster skill bar.

AvroeArrow · Mar 08, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Wow, I guess a lot of people run that Burning arrow+Apply poison build. Here's my usual/general PvE setup as a R/Mo (unless I'm going somewhere specific or elite capping):

[skill]Burning Arrow[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Screaming Shot[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill][skill]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill]Mending Touch[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Marksmanship: 12+1+3
Expertise: 11+1
Wilderness Survival: 6+1
Protection: 2

Full Druid armor, customized collector Ascalon 15^50 Longbow and Shortbow with Lengthen Poison by 33% string and Armor+5 grip on both (cheap and effective).

At 12 Expertise, all the 10e skills cost 5e (need 14 Exp for it to drop to 4e). I swap out [skill]Mending Touch[/skill] for [skill]Remove Hex[/skill] or [skill]Purge Signet[/skill] if I know I'm going into a hex heavy area. Natural Stride looks interesting, but since I'm Expertise heavy I use Whirling Defense (lasts 18s at Exp 12).

If I can hit with all 3 conditions, it's good for -14 health degen, great for enemy monks, and sometimes even monk bosses. I just need to remember to either walk closer or switch to my shortbow because I'm usually at the longbow limit range. I'll also voice agreement with the others about not bothering with the pet. It's more of a liability than a help, especially when it dies and takes your skill bar with it for the next 3-10 seconds, depending on your BM level. The only time that I take a pet is either with B/P (Barrage/Pet) teams in Tombs, or when running a mini-B/P team with Heroes (me, Acolyte Jin, Margrid, Olias) and henchies.

As for generic MM build, here's the one I usually run on my Olias:

[skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Soul Feast[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Heal Area[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

Death: 12+1+3
Soul Reaping: 12+1
Healing: 3

That works pretty well for me. If you can't afford a Superior Death rune (they're not cheap), then use a minor Death rune. Keep Death at even numbers (16, 14, 12, etc) because you only get 1 additional minion for every 2 pts in Death. So you'll max out at 9 minions at 14 and 15 Death, so there's no point in using 15 Death and taking the -35hp penalty from the Major Death rune.

Falconer · Mar 09, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

If only the search function was working... I tried to dig up one of my quotes from before the game was even live, or just shortly thereafter.

But it was along the lines of... For rangers, when starting try to do one thing well, then branch out from there. Always being very carefull not to overstretch yourself. Stick w/ ranger only skills to start w/ only adding a single skill here or there from a secondary until you're comfortable or understand how it helps you. Be wary of non-expertise skills, as you pay a hidden penalty cost for using them.

Rangers have a peculiar problem in the game. They are the jack of all trades class of guild wars, they can do a bit of everything. They have to work very hard to do any one thing exceedingly well, while other classes have to work really hard to do multiple things well. This has gotten less true, since classes like the paragon have entered play.

Starting rangers have a very easy time overstretching. Also they tend not to understand how expertise helps and hinders them. 10 expertise helps you not one lick w/ that bar you posted!

Unlike many others here, I don't like giving builds and saying play this... I prefer to see players experiment and learn what they like and why. So I'll give you this point of advice, start w/ no more than 3 attributes... expertise, attribute 1, and attribute 2. For starting, I suggest expertise, marksmanship, and wilderness survival. Feel free, to add low or no-spec skills from secondaries especially if expertise helps them to experiment. As you get better, you'll better be able to trim your attributes to your immediate needs.

LightningHell · Mar 09, 2007, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Ditch Lightning Reflexes for Natural Stride imo.

CDittric77 · Mar 09, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

I'm a bit of a wuss when I play my ranger, so when I get in tight spots, I actually prefer throw dirt. it allows me to run away while they flounder about uselessly.

shaderaven · Mar 09, 2007, 10:08 AM // 10:08

I think I like the following build more and more for my ranger.

Marksmanship: 10+1+2, Expertise: 9+1, Fire: 10, Survival: 7.

Prepared Shot [E]
Keen Arrow
Needling Shot
Apply Poison
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Conflagration
Mark of Rodgort
Conjure Flame

With Margrid Running Spirit of Favorable+Barage+Go for the Eyes
It seems to have more than enough energy management (maybe even lower expertise), spreads poison with the help needling, massively spreads burning with the help of margrid conflagrated barrage and even can perform some heavy single target pressure with GftE keen arrow followed by Needling Spam and Prepared on those pesky enemy monks.
The only problem is that there is some time untill I can cap prepared.

I'm spreding my attributes again and got no selfheal or ress or condition removal or interupt... but it sounds as a fun build. Maybe I should change the Glyph for a Troll (and put WS rune for the +8 mark), but will have to see if I can handle the energy first.

trekkie dude · Mar 14, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

if you want to interrupt having broadhead arrow some a monster that will be a pain and then apply poison. since if you hit the target becomes dazed almost every shot interrupts it and if you shoot disruption shot it's disabled for a long time. i become an interruption ranger because i got soo tired of other monsters interrupting me so it was just payback.

lennymon · Mar 15, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

No worries Shaderaven, almost everyone didnt do so hot at first with interrupting. The only way to get better is to practice, get the feel of the timing and almost more importantly just develop a 'feel' for when they need to be interrupted. Just bring Savage Shot at first on a high expertise build and get a scorsheet going (%interrupts nailed) and just challenge yourself, it's fun. I also started off with broadhead arrow, but unless I'm doing a pve mission with *nasty* caster bosses (torturewebs...) I bring concussion shot since it's just as good and rarely misses.
As far as shortbows: they rule! (but if you have FW and/or RtW a flatbow will be damn near as good).