Curse

SnipiousMax · Aug 18, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

<snip>

It's still a five energy skill for the additional damage, recharge, and secondary effect that occurs just as often as it doesn't. When I'm forced to spec lower in Expertise, I like running this because it provides a spamable decent attack, on top of it's secondary effect. The other options have twice the recharge, or twice the cost.

HalPlantagenet · Aug 18, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

...to save the maximum attribute points, use a sup rune for your highest attribute.

This idea can be extended of course, whether you're running with 2 sups or 2 majors. Because the number of points required to change a level monotonically increases, you want use larger runes on the highest attribute lines. It's a simple, useful strategy but one that isn't given sufficient attention in most GW guides of any sort. Thanks Sir Mad for a clear, succinct statement.

QuixotesGhost · Aug 18, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

QuixotesGhost: I suppose you're build is actually alright, but it seems to me that you aren't doing as much as you could be if you just focused on one of the two halves of your builds (Choking or Traps).

Well, the beauty of it is that I have several skills that do double duty. If you look at it, I have seven skills for the Oath trapping-side, Lightning, Serpent's, Oath, Throw Dirt, and the Traps. Then for the Choking Gas side you really only need 3 things, A Faster attack speed buff, Choking Gas, and a way to drop the downtime of Choking Gas, which the build all has.

The point is to bring as much shutdown as possible against as many possible targets. I feel that traps (specifically Dust and Barbed to a lesser extent) are the best shutdown available to a ranger against physical and Choking Gas is the best shutdown available to a ranger against spellcasters.

So you got:

1. Damage - Through straight Oath Shot Trapping.
2. Physical Shutdown - Through being able to Oath Shot Throw Dirt and Dust Trap.
3. Caster Shutdown - Through Choking Gas.

I just pick whatever mode the current situation requires.

Plus Oath Shot has another advantage to a Choking Gas Ranger, no need to spec into Beastmastery for Tiger's Fury for the attack speed boost becuase you can Oath Shot Lighting Reflexes, which lasts longer and has the happy side effect of 75% evade.

I'm kinda disappointed though that noone else commentend on my build becuse I really think it's the awesomesauce and does something I've never seen any other ranger try.

Epinephrine · Aug 18, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

I've run pretty much the same build QuixotesGhost

It's hard not to notice the high Wilderness and think "Hey, I could actually use my bow with Choking Gas; even if the damage is small it'll interrupt stuff".

One of my favorite build to run right now is a choking gas pet build; the pet is the damage source as it has only 2 in marksmanship;

13 Wilderness
13 Expertise
11 BM

Practiced Stance [e]
Choking Gas
Tiger's Fury
Needling Shot
Predator's Pounce
Disrupting Lunge
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal

Puts out lots of interruption, has damage via a pet, Disrupting Lunge gives you a way to interrupt even while re-applying the Choking Gas, pet serves as a target up front; effect on party is to add an extra tank, deliver some damage (not horrible) via pet and interrupt a lot. It's fun to run I find.

Yes, I could have done the typical Flurry R/W to run the speed boost and had arrow damage, but then you lack an interrupt while re-applying the CG, and you don't get a pet tanking.

Evilsod · Aug 18, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

It's still a five energy skill for the additional damage, recharge, and secondary effect that occurs just as often as it doesn't. When I'm forced to spec lower in Expertise, I like running this because it provides a spamable decent attack, on top of it's secondary effect. The other options have twice the recharge, or twice the cost.

What would you class as low expertise? Imo Expertise should never be below 9. I see what you mean though, i wouldn't really consider it personally though, the additional damage it does is nothing major in comparison to what a prep or IAS could do. Although i guess the bleeding gets overlooked a bit though.

QuixotesGhost, isn't it a little bit energy heavy? Even at very high expertise traps soon rack up a high energy cost if you lay plenty. Not to mention you can only really do 1 or the other, lay traps or interrupt casters, you can guarantee when you go to do 1 the other would've been more useful. Its better to just concentrate on 1, leave interrupting to the mesmer and stick with traps or go interrupting and annoy the mesmer by beating him to it ^^

Amy Awien · Aug 18, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

I'm kinda disappointed though that noone else commentend on my build becuse I really think it's the awesomesauce and does something I've never seen any other ranger try.

It's very hard to gauge that build from the description. I do have some doubt about using AoE damage in PvE, scattering aggro is the last thing I want, especially when travelling with henchies. Perhaps that is why you see so few Trappers in PvE?
Choking Gas has some downtime, though possible not much (and as a note normal CG's use flurry and not Tiger's Fury)

Sha Noran · Aug 18, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

Sorry to say this, but this is the kind of arrogant response that upsets everybody since the beginning. This thread would be an excellent guide is you learnt how to listen at what people say.

I thought my post might come off the wrong way; I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I still think the information you posted, though accurate, still does essentially nothing. 11 Expertise is no more a breakpoint than is 10, which is where I was. You can't even consider another breakpoint until 12, so like I said, you're right about the math and good job with it, but it just... doesn't do anything.

Sir Mad · Aug 18, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by HalPlantagenet

This idea can be extended of course, whether you're running with 2 sups or 2 majors. Because the number of points required to change a level monotonically increases, you want use larger runes on the highest attribute lines. It's a simple, useful strategy but one that isn't given sufficient attention in most GW guides of any sort.

Yes of course you're definitely right - consider my statement as the way to go, but it's indeed more complicated when you include 2 major runes instead for example...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

I thought my post might come off the wrong way; I wasn't trying to be sarcastic.

In this case, sorry for my rude comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

I still think the information you posted, though accurate, still does essentially nothing. 11 Expertise is no more a breakpoint than is 10, which is where I was. You can't even consider another breakpoint until 12, so like I said, you're right about the math and good job with it, but it just... doesn't do anything.

Here I cannot agree. First off, 11 expertise is a breakpoint for skills costing 25 energy. You use this repartition of attribute points in many builds, including your BHA build. And of course players using this guide may sometimes want to replace one skill in a build using this setup by concussion shot.

On the other hand expertise is not only about reducing the energy cost of non spell skills, but also, as any attribute, about buffing the skills of this attribute. And there is at least one expertise skill in 90% of the builds posted.

Of course, increasing the duration of WD or throw dirt by 1 second will not completely change your game play. But it's just as if you were like: "why to bother with this 2nd attribute quest as having 11+x or 12+x marksmanship won't make a huge difference". See what I mean?

XvArchonvX · Aug 19, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by HalPlantagenet

In short, Noran’s guide feels like the gruff, plain advice of an arrogant curmudgeonly master ranger. Who wouldn’t want to buy him a pint in a Pub, listen to him declaim while keeping your own critical faculties fully engaged? I expect he would want no less. On the other hand, that’s not to say, I wouldn’t mind taking a seat at another table to listen to XvArchonvX and Amy Awien or Huntmaster debate a point or even better provide comprehensive guide of their own ranger experience.

If you ever end up in my neck of the woods I would be glad to pretend to be a arrogant curmudgeonly master ranger if it would get you to buy me a pint.

~.^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

In PvE i don't really see the use for Cripshot. Nor Hunters Shot. Even though you can guarantee the enemy will be moving if they're a warrior, many foes are immune to bleeding/poison and additionally many are either dead too quickly or really not suffering at all from the little bit of extra damage bleeding gives. Hunters Shot is probably the best skill a PvP ranger could bring (specifically in ABs). It doesn't just affect warriors, many areas are extremely high up and give the ranger a significant increase in range. Many people, casters or otherwise may be running past, most not watching what you are doing, or simply trying to flee.

Nor do I run a crippleshot build in PvE, but I do frequent a Apply Poison build that can run a bit high in energy and in such case do choose Hunter's Shot for it's low energy cost damage bonus. Since I generally try to spread poison to many targets before settling on a single target, I can generally catch approaching enemies with Hunter's as well as any fleeing targets. The bleeding is a bonus and is not meant to be a reliable reason to bring Hunter's Shot, but in my style of play, I can often find good use of it. However I will not say that it is best in most builds.

As for QuixotesGhost, I am very interested in your build. Generally I run Practiced Stance when I use a Choking Gas build, but Oath Shot is an interesting idea. I would have to say that the way you use your build would definately make or break it. While I know many look down on the use of traps in a build that uses bows, I believe that it can be justified if used right. I'll have to try your build sometime, but it may be a while since I'm currently on vacation at the moment and am using a computer that isn't running Guild Wars.

Koolman · Aug 27, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Sha rangers suck didn't you hear? Lol inside joke..

Anyway, good guide its been helping me a lot with my Ranger, its just too bad Guru wants to nick pick everything and won't make this a sticky because there is no other ranger guild that even compares to this.

Sha Noran · Aug 28, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Haha, thanks for the support Koolman, really glad to hear its been helping your Ranger. I guessed it was you from your name before i even opened up the thread; classic.

Jagan · Sep 06, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Sha owns, and... That's pretty much it.

Sha Noran · Sep 06, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Well, I'm glad someone thinks so. ;-)

Ren Wuying · Sep 14, 2006, 09:35 AM // 09:35

What is a good touch ranger setup for R/Me, and how to utilize it?

I play PvE only

Sha Noran · Sep 14, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

...

Touch Rangers are based on the use of Necromancer touch skills combined with Ranger Expertise to cut down on their cost. R/Me isn't going to work dude.

Dyon Adell · Sep 15, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ren Wuying

What is a good touch ranger setup for R/Me, and how to utilize it?

I play PvE only

LOL PWNED. But hey, R/Me can touch too. Blackout FTW!! xD

EDIT: Oh yeah Sha, I have this better build for a machine gunner. I used it everytime we farmed Sorrow's Furnace, and works for me everytime. Thought this'd be a good place to share it.

Marksmanship - 12 + 3 + 1
Expertise - 12 + 1
Optional Attribute - 3 + 1(if it's primary)

Res Sig
Dual Shot
Punishing Shot {Elite}
Savage Shot
Read the Wind
Needling Shot
Whirling Defense
Optional Skill (preferably a heal skill)

Why I think this is better over your suggested machine-gunner build:

With Read the Wind on, you can dish out damage with the generic Spike combo way faster than a normal Quick Shot spam(tried myself many times).

Dual -> Punishing -> Savage should leave half of the mobs with 50% health. If your target is a Warrior, you might need 1-2 more shots or just repeat the combo. Or perhaps if a party member is aiding you, his life will be down to 50% even faster. Once his health is under 50% for him, it's game over. Truly, no normal mob can survive a constant degen of 36 health(21 from needling, 10 from RtW, 5 from vampiric bow). I have never failed to solo any mob to death under 50% health with Needling Shot UNLESS it's those irritating bosses like you said(I will try your evil degen build against them ;D ).

First 50% of health covered by Dual -> Punishing -> Savage,
later 50% finished off by Needling.

Both parts are way faster than a Quick Shot spam.

Sha Noran · Sep 15, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Yes, the old school Quick Shot spam build (any of them really) are rather outdated. Back in the day when you could just mash one (assuming QS was on your one button :-P) and fire it way, way faster than once per second, it pwned way hard. Now though, not so great; I'll probably edit the guide to reflect that and put in something like yours. Good call.

XvArchonvX · Sep 16, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Aye, I've been playing with the Read the Winds + Needling Shot combo lately. I found that it works rather well with Frenzy (although you will definately need a backup stance to cancel frenzy if you start taking damage). I found that RtW + Needling + a Vamp Flatbow + Frenzy can push out really high speed damage. I also liked Dodge as a cancel stance since it works well to not only cancel Frenzy, but get you to a safe spot quickly. I'm sure Tiger's Fury will work also, but I've never been a big fan of that skill since it does tend to spread the attributes a bit thin. Frenzy with good situational awareness used on a ranger (who generally sits in a safer ranged position) seems to work better imo, but as long as you don't bring Flurry (unless you are running a Choking Gas build and aren't concerned with damage), the combo should work fine.

Meta Physical · Sep 16, 2006, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Just really had one thing to say - Nice figgin' job

My Ranger approves, heartily, and I'll be owning much more fluently because of the guide - I'm bidding on a nice Storm Bow as we speak

Another question, however - are touch rangers a viable idea in PvE, truly, as opposed to, say, some of the range-based choices?

-Meta

Sha Noran · Sep 16, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Meta Physical: Thanks. :-D

Touch Rangers, while viable in PvE, they generally are not a good idea in group situations (much the same way Touchies aren't terribly viable in larger, more team based PvP). They have better survivability than, say, an Assassin, but much, much less than a Warrior.

The best thing Touch Rangers do in PvE is solo bosses for their Greens.