Curse

Silk Weaver · Feb 19, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Let's have some real paladins, jesus, what's this healing breeze nonsense? Paladins holy a silly blunt weapon, use lay hands spells and smite evil by RPG tradition.

Anyway, I was told that this concept died off from top games as soon as faction was released, due to stuff such as fierce blow, shadow stepping, thumper/smite craze, but here's just a little attempt to revive it.

Hammer 11+1+2
Smiting Prayers 11
Strength 7+1
Healing Prayers 5

Enraging Charge
Tiger Stance (Frenzy)
Backbreaker
Crushing Blow
Holy Strike
Stonesoul Strike
Restful Breeze
Resurrection Signet (Mending Touch, for splits)

As far as I know, it provides a heavier spike than Dev>Fierce mathematically speaking, provides decent buildup with EC, and I love backbreaker.

/Mo, of course opens up possibilities with Mending Touch, and I maintain that Restful Breeze is usable. Then again, you can have a monk splitter along and just carry the rez.

Mmm, I don't see why not, though this would be something of a flamebait. 4 second KD makes for decent coordinated offspikes, it packs enough damage to kill an Infuser, or a 600hp with a tiny bit of help (but shield bash/discipline/balanced stnace issue applies, of course). Speccing is decent too, as we all know strength is a crappy attribute anyway. -1 mastery is bad, but not that bad in this case, and the lack of tactics means only lack of heal sig. In flagstand, it wouldn't be that necessary, and then again, restful breeze is great for splits. So really, diverting all those points to smiting doesn't really do that much to lower the build's pressure. A spike of this length is stupid, but considering the KD element, and its impact on a split, I don't think it's that bad. Then again, it would be coordinated with another melee/spiker anyway. As mentioned before, it should deal a decent amount of damage.

Then you have zealous hammer for the build up.

So here's an honest attempt to make a Paladin, seriously, thoughts?

XxUberMonkeyxX · Feb 20, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

i think u got the wrong part of the forums this is for the PVE builds not pvp

-.- · Feb 20, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

The hell is this?

Randomway Ftw · Feb 20, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18

NO, BAD. (If I was a mod I would lock this)

Beasleyboy · Feb 20, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Let's have some real paladins, jesus, what's this healing breeze nonsense? Paladins holy a silly blunt weapon, use lay hands spells and smite evil by RPG tradition.

Anyway, I was told that this concept died off from top games as soon as faction was released, due to stuff such as fierce blow, shadow stepping, thumper/smite craze, but here's just a little attempt to revive it.

Hammer 11+1+2
Smiting Prayers 11
Strength 7+1
Healing Prayers 5

Enraging Charge
Tiger Stance (Frenzy)
Backbreaker
Crushing Blow
Holy Strike
Stonesoul Strike
Restful Breeze
Resurrection Signet (Mending Touch, for splits)

As far as I know, it provides a heavier spike than Dev>Fierce mathematically speaking, provides decent buildup with EC, and I love backbreaker.

/Mo, of course opens up possibilities with Mending Touch, and I maintain that Restful Breeze is usable. Then again, you can have a monk splitter along and just carry the rez.

Mmm, I don't see why not, though this would be something of a flamebait. 4 second KD makes for decent coordinated offspikes, it packs enough damage to kill an Infuser, or a 600hp with a tiny bit of help (but shield bash/discipline/balanced stnace issue applies, of course). Speccing is decent too, as we all know strength is a crappy attribute anyway. -1 mastery is bad, but not that bad in this case, and the lack of tactics means only lack of heal sig. In flagstand, it wouldn't be that necessary, and then again, restful breeze is great for splits. So really, diverting all those points to smiting doesn't really do that much to lower the build's pressure. A spike of this length is stupid, but considering the KD element, and its impact on a split, I don't think it's that bad. Then again, it would be coordinated with another melee/spiker anyway. As mentioned before, it should deal a decent amount of damage.

Then you have zealous hammer for the build up.

So here's an honest attempt to make a Paladin, seriously, thoughts?

Ya, this build really needs to be thought over. Little/no self heal, weaker damage compared to other builds, not even maxed weapon attribute.

LightningHell · Feb 20, 2007, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Non max weapon attribute ftl.

I'd like to see damage comparisons by numbers,, but I'm lazy.

Silk Weaver · Feb 20, 2007, 05:52 AM // 05:52

1, no, 2 concept has been used in the prophs metagame, 3, I've actually spoken to LightningHell about this before, 4 have you read my thing? The actual spike is actually more than that of a Backbreaker > Crushing > Irresitable > Protector's Strike, as well as Devsatating > Crushing > Fierce > Protector's Strike. Explain how this is "weaker damage"? It's only 1 less on weapon attribute, a lamentable loss, but I've dealt with it in the actual post. As far as a hammer warrior goes, especially a backbreaker warrior, unable to take advantage of fierce blow, I do think this does more damage in a spike.

"little no self heal", as said, restful breeze is a usable heal in split situations. Healing signets are rarely used that often in a flagstand context (endure has been used over sigs before, both, sometimes, though that leaves for less versatility).

Seriously guys, you can do better than that. Can you use some real arguements? I am willing to discuss this properly, can't you as well?

Edit: Missed post.

I'll do that. Also, a non smite spike is slightly faster due to prot strike, but, again, backbreaker does rely on the KD, and, most likely, spiking two targets at thee same time anyway. Also, I argue that the issue is less of a problem in a split, just sick this on the monk runner (or whatever), and the sin/ranger on the other guy or something, something like that. So, yes, it's stramge noone brought up the aftercast issue. In solid damage terms, it's definetly higher, though.

Normal Hammer attacks do NOT deal 100 damage, okay? 16 mastery or otherwise. That fact alone makes this more fatal, and that's not to count the cannot be blocked aspect of it, and the fact that it will not trigger Prot Spirit or Spirit Bond.

Damage numbers, meeeh. I'll get a screen cap, though you can really just calculate the numbers.

Edit again: I did it with 12+2+1 mastery and 13 strength, and I caught both 70 with mighty blow, as well as 107 once, when I crit. The former which is worse, the latter of which is about as much damage, which would make the idea pointless. Backbreaker > Crushing > Mightly Blow > Irresitable Blow was what I used, so I suppose it's somewhat close.

Arkantos · Feb 20, 2007, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Want a real argument? Please explain why someone would run a non max weapon attribute wammo with healing prayers and smiting skills instead of a standard YAA warrior.

Silk Weaver · Feb 20, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

BackBreaker.

That's all there is to it.

Edit: non max attribute? With one less tactics rune (though I suppose YAA don't run strength to start with), that's 25 less health due to switching minor to major. It can be that of an issue. Or it can be, fair enough, I'm just throwing this out there?

Weakness affects this less than a Backbreaker > Crushing > Might/Irre, mind you.

Meh, I would like to note that the only real different skills on this bar are the two strike skills. EC I'd use on a split warrior anyway. Gaining adrenaline is difficult in skirmishes, and it helps very much. I use it on a YAA as well. Mending Touch is pro. Restfulbreeze as well, but that's optional depending on the build's split. Tiger Stance is also noted as interchangable with frenzy. The question then, Holy Strike + Stonesoul Strike more damage? Or Irresitable Blow and Power Attack or something? Agaaaaain, Spirit Bond/Prot Spirit and block evade (minor issue) comes into play as well.

Mmm, actually with testing, it seems that it doesn't do much more damage, so meh.

Arkantos · Feb 20, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Don't usually play hammer warrior, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Lose the monk crap (not mending touch) Run max hammer, add some points into strength/tactics. Replace restful with healing signet. Replace the smiting skills with 2 attacks. Overall, I think this would be better.

LightningHell · Feb 20, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Don't usually play hammer warrior, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Lose the monk crap (not mending touch) Run max hammer, add some points into strength/tactics. Replace restful with healing signet. Replace the smiting skills with 2 attacks. Overall, I think this would be better.

And you get your standard Backbreaker warrior.

qvtkc · Feb 20, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

This works, I made a hammer build kind of like this one (holy/stonesoul combo) when Factions was new, got one gladiator point with it, then got bored.

Oh by the way, would this work with Flail as IAS?

Silk Weaver · Feb 20, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Flail would work well in PvE, and also in this context if you use it AFTER the KD, but for that purpose, I think Tiger's Stance is better. Burst of Agression is good for Decapitate and sins only, and Frenzy is your best bet most of the time. A bit risky, but it comes with that.

And Arkantos, the build you suggested is as LightningHell suggested, a standard Backbreaker build, and I have nothing against it. Like you said, the difference is in those 2 attack skills. Strength matters very little, so I don't think the attribute spread would matter (aside from losing 1 hammer). Mighty Hammer, for example, can get more than 100 damage on a crit (better than strike), but can miss, can be blocked, and you mentioned weakness as well. It deals around 60-70 without crit, however, which is lower than the smite skills. You may be right, though, it probably is better. Still, it's an attempt, and I daresay it's not really as retarded as some might think, it does have several advantages as mentioned above.

/resign

Tingi · Feb 20, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

what is with holy strike crap? Next will come AS...

Are people going back to the KD/AS days..? Because that was a sucky build.

Arkantos · Feb 20, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Tan, get 3 warriors with AS on one target. Backbreaker -> AS. When they get up, strike with a hamstring attack to cripple your fleeing opponent, then rain fire down upon him as he slowly limps away. It's a very imba build, that's why Izzy hasn't touched it.

Silk Weaver · Feb 20, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

I don't need the sarcasm, it's comparable damage. Aftershock is stupid, but Holy Strike has the numbers to justify at least.

Arkantos · Feb 20, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

I don't need the sarcasm, it's comparable damage. Aftershock is stupid, but Holy Strike has the numbers to justify at least.

My post had nothing to do with your build.

Morzan_7 · Feb 23, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

I've tried things like this...as a warrior (solo) you'll run out of energy very, very fast. Only things that should go on in a W/Mo build is one or two energy skills and adrenaline skills (and of course signets).

Kenji Akatsuki · Feb 24, 2007, 06:22 AM // 06:22

i think ur prob is that ur really trying to buy into this insane paladin concept.
1) holy strike gives off numbers, yes: but at the price of one slot for a skill that barely does any damage at all and offers no bonus effect isnt worth the trade off
2) a w/mo needs a better heal than restful breeze, the reason y ppl use healing breeze is cuz it heals more for a longer period of time. sometimes the crowd isnt mistaken...
3) sure backbreaker is good, but if dont synergies w/ anything else its just another damage skill...kinda like..oh i dont know...holy strike? u dont even max hammer, how r u gunna get the best results?

if u really want to play "paladins", d2's the game for u, plenty of pally power there. but seriously here in gw we think up of builds that make sense (including the crowd of w/mo mending breezers), it'd be wise to take advice from others especially when u ask for them

btw: because u dont use a shield, ur guy is extremely vulnerable to sins; but im sure you already knew that.

Symbol · Feb 24, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Holy strike is shit because it
a) has aftercast, and is thus almost as slow as a regular speed hammer attack
b) you can't speed it up with IAS