Curse

Gregslot · Apr 06, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I dont get it, i really dont (please someone convince me, or try).

I considered Spirit of Failure a avarage skill, its impossible to use it if you are not a mesmer, and you dont actually get that much energy back.
10 energy, 3 cast time, 20 recharge, and you have 25% chance to get 2 energy if the enemy attacks u.u

berlioz7 · Apr 06, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

The thing that was wrong with spirit of failure was the same thing that was wrong with price of failure and soulreaping. The favorite child (pvp) cried and it was nerfed for them.

around · Apr 06, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Because its 30 seconds of missing 25% of your attacks for no attribute investment that stacks with other melee debuffs.

lyra_song · Apr 06, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

good farming hex too.

Former Ruling · Apr 06, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

The problem with it came when it was used in a hex team or spammed under MoR.

When someone has Reckless Haste, Price of Failure, AND Spirit of Failure on them (most likely with Parasidic Bond to cover, and try Faintheartedness for good measure)...You cant always use up your Divert Hexes or Purge or Convert on them because the rest of the team might need those more.

Tarkin · Apr 06, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Reckless Haste, Price of Failure, AND Spirit of Failure + parasit bond = own in pve and is a good deal against melle in pvp...

Dont use in the primary target use in a warrior in pve + ss... you will have a uselles warrior running around giving you energy and with ss...

In pvp use against melles teams, because the fast recharge time you can spread it fast and because the energy net gain you can spread forever...

Cymmina · Apr 07, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

Because its 30 seconds of missing 25% of your attacks for no attribute investment that stacks with other melee debuffs.

If that was the problem, making the duration scale based on the associated attribute would have been a more reasonable change. I spec high inspiration for some builds, but changes like these make it harder and harder to justify the investment.

Theus · Apr 07, 2007, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Because it's a well known fact that Mesmer's aren't allowed good skills.

Avarre · Apr 07, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

+5 spirit of failure, huge duration, stacked with other miss hexes, stacked with Aegis was huge energy management as you missed almost every attack (or didn't attack at all) and contributed to the retardedness of the hex meta.

Caith-Avar · Apr 07, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

10 energy, 3 cast time, 20 recharge, and you have 25% chance to get 2 energy if the enemy attacks u.u

Blind him, make that a 90% miss chance, thus 90% on that energy gain instead of 25%. Though that's only what I did in PvE. Don't know about PvP.

stueyman2099 · Apr 07, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

The reason this was more powerful than blind was that haexes cost more resources to remove than conditions.

Rurik Jangeer · Apr 07, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Because it's a well known fact that Mesmer's aren't allowed good skills.

QFMFT

enough said

Tarkin · Apr 07, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Because it's a well known fact that Mesmer's aren't allowed good skills.

Agree. They hate mesmers.

Winstar · Apr 07, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by berlioz7

The thing that was wrong with spirit of failure was the same thing that was wrong with price of failure and soulreaping. The favorite child (pvp) cried and it was nerfed for them.

PvP is not the favorite child of Anet. Consider each expansion. PvE players get boatloads of new content in the form of a new story, a new continent to explore, new skills, new items, new elite mission areas. PvE players get loads of weekend events. PvP players simply have to live with imbalancing skills and some new halls. PvE players get the bulk of the updates (over time most add more PvE related content than PvP related content). The most recent PCgamer article is an in depth discussion about the game which mentioned PvP for all of...2 sentences maybe? The PvP arenas have been long neglected and needing significant changes and adjustments for the sake of playability. When Anet _finally_ gets around to doing something about it many PvE players start moaning because they don't get their way in one area of the game (skill balance) which has a far less devestating impact on PvE than PvP. Its not everyone, I know lots of players who are either PvEers or hybrid players (like myself) who are content with skill changes for the most part and happy to see that work is being done to fix PvP environments and in general that Anet is taking into account PvP issues. Anyway, give it up.

Are Mesmers hated?

Mesmers have loads of good skills and always have, and always will be, an integeral part of the GvG metagame. HA is a different story, but that is related to the current setup of its maps/objectives and not the class itself. In PvE I will admit that they have historically been underused. IMO this is part of the design concept of the class itself which in many ways focuses on shutting single characters while PvE has typically been focused on dealing mass amounts of damage via AoE (see minion swarms and nuking - searing eles in DoA etc). In pretty much every case in PvE its more time efficient to simply bomb the hell out of monsters till they are all dead than to try and shutdown a monk, or tp help relieve pressure by disrupting their midline characters, or blacking out a melee toon etc. Monster A.I. simply can't keep up with it and is easily duped into bunching up for meteor showers (see searing eles in DoA).

Why the change?

As for spirt of failure, the problem is part of an issue with hexes in general as compared to conditions. As pointed out by stueyman2099 the skill resources of the game given to a team to deal with hexes are much less efficient and cost effective than skills able to deal with conditions. Monks have a boatload of extremely efficient skills to deal with conditons, Mend, Draw, RC, Dismiss, extinguish, etc. Warriors themselves have become pretty much unconcerned about conditions with the introduction of skills which are commonly on their bars like mend touch. Of course there are also Melendrus Dervishes...gg conditions. Hexes on the other hand, while individually less potent, could be easily combined with other hexes in certain team builds to essentially neuter an offense (Price and Spirit with Reckless which is AoE, or shadow of fear etc) etc. The problem is that resources to deal with hexes have been, and still are, underpowered relative to the ability of a team to stack hexes across your team. Divert for example is a slower cast, doesn't necessarily dig deep enough, slower recharge than RC. Its also generally much less useful. So being forced to run a Divert monk to have a prayer against the prominent hex teams means you put yourself at a big disadvantage in any other match. There are no, mends, draws, and extinguishes for hexes. The comparable skills are all either more costly, and much slower on recharge. Now of course there is a balance to be had here. Since a hex like spirit of failure is less effective on its own than a blind in a way, we don't necessarily want something _exactly_ equivalent to a mend condition for hexes. But, there needed to be something done in order to bring the ability for a team to effectively deal with hexes without completely handicapping themselves in every other matchup more in line with a teams ability to deal with conditions. What the skill adjustments gave us was the toning down of certain hexes (spirit for example) while also improving the quality of hex removal. We will see in time if this was enough.

HolyHawk · Apr 07, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

I'd say it was just a wrong approach. It's been sorta of broken for a long while, but not because the energy gain, nor the 25% miss, but the 30sec duration. It's 3 second casting afterall, you hardly see it anywhere else other than mesmers. Scale duration along with energy gain, and the skill would become acceptable. Right now, it's just another inspiration skill that becomes less effective, even if there's auspicious incantation that's pretty good now.

Sujoy · Apr 07, 2007, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Dude Winstar, whats the use of having all that content if all the professions get nerfed in PvE to suit PvP players wishes. Its hell in PvE, everytime you start liking your characters, they get nerfed.

Don't get me started on the mesmer in PvE... mesmer in PvP don't complain, wonder why?

Winstar · Apr 07, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Actually, just removing my post to try and keep this from being another giant pve v pvp thread.

sindex · Apr 07, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

I am hoping and I hope your hoping too; that when the PvE only skills come around they are clearly much more justified and give the Mesmers a complete over haul. Clearly I think that is A-net’s goal in the next official update. That way some of this mess gets cleared up, hopefully real good.

They are clearly much sought after to screw with people in PvP, and some are preferred choice in doing several things in PvE. However I would like to see mesmers really sink their teeth into PvE now.

Winstar · Apr 07, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Actually, speaking of conditions, they currently suffer the opposite problem. I think there are simply too many ways to deal with them and that while hexes need to come down, conditions actually need to rise up a little.

Nekretaal · Apr 08, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

nothing is wrong with this skill. pvp wants more physical and less caster in the next metagame. It'll be rebuffed later when pvp gets tired of physicals and want to play casters again