Curse

pingu666 · Mar 05, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

u take healing prayers so u dont over stress the monks, and so u can heal between battles, and thus keep your minions fairly healthy and larger in number.

no self heal is pretty hideous on a MM, in my experience they cant sustain a large number of minions, and are really annoying to constantly heal some spastic, who should easily be able too.

your role relies on you sacing health (100health or so every 10secs?), so you should have that covered atleast partly...

Grip Gambler · Mar 05, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

On my MM, I don't use healing prayers, I actually use troll unguent, as it has less energy cost, and takes less attribute points to get to the same amount of healing that HB does. I usually just keep this up during battle. It also works pretty effectively when going MM in AB as fun... Troll+Dark Bond+Taste of Death keep you alive very effectively in AB (for an MM).

Cathode_Reborn · Mar 06, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

When I run MM, this is generally the elite I choose. Flesh Golem is a nice pet and all, but in the end I find that having 10 minions at full strength 100% of the time generally is worth the potential damage output of the Golem.

I have been able to keep a pack of 10 minions alive for over 20 minutes with AotL and a weapon with an enchanting mod, and NO monk secondary. That type of self-sustaining power frees up your monk and your secondary to do other fun things, IMO.

Those are pretty much the reasons why I refuse to MM without AotL. It's awesome in so many ways. I don't even sac 30hp with 10 minions. You can do whatever you want with your 2ndary prof. As mentioned, it's great for having 10 minions at full strength. An N/Mo simply can't spam BotM like AotL can. Who cares about Heal Area? The range is limited. I usually throw the entire minion army at a mob while I stand far back spamming BotM.

People try and argue that it's dangerous cause it makes you vulnerable to degen. An MM with AotL is more dangerous in my book since they sac 100+hp with one use of BotM. Honestly, the only time I use Flesh Golem is when I'm helping a guildy in a low level area.....summon it, and it practically kills everything on it's own =p

{BHC}KingWarman88 · Mar 06, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Hey,

use Healing sealgineyt

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 07, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

AotL + BotM + Vampiric Horrors

Always the course I have taken, ever since factions anyways. Never fails!

Carinae · Mar 07, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

BotM is your primary minion heal. You should take a self heal of some type, and as you can see, opinions are divided on what is the best self heal.

I prefer HA/HC for the secondary effect that you can also heal minions with it, as well as self heal. The secondary minion heal comes in handy in a few situations. In a pinch, you can heal them twice as fast, you can also heal them if BotM is disabled/distracted.

ALL the self-heals have a disadvantage. It's just a matter of choosing the one with the least disadvantage for your build/playstyle.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 08, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Never bring a self heal! Don't listen to them! Healing Circle is for Smite Ball! Don't do it!

Thom Bangalter · Mar 08, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

why run a self heal? that's the monk's job.

Glints Bane · Mar 08, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

personally I dont bring a self heal. I used to always do so but realised it was a waste of energy because right after or before I would finsh the heal cast I would see more healing which was coming from a monk. So now I go N/E and bring glyph of lesser energy so I can bring upfiends non stop. Now the ONLY time I bring a self heal is when I do OoU I just bring Healing Breaze though because I also have vampiric horrors. Well hope this helps.

ss1986v2 · Mar 08, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

you have to be careful when rolling without a self heal. some monks will see your health dropping and drop a heal on you no matter what. some monks (myself for one) can tell the difference between BotM and actual dmg from the enemy. if i have the time and energy to spare, ill drop a heal without any problem. but if someone else is taking dmg, they will take priority over a self-saccing MM. under pressure, unless you are taking direct dmg, im not going to spend my energy on the MM when someone else needs it.

the reason is that a MM doesnt even have to invest in separate lines to handle his own healing. AotL, taste of death, and vamp horrors are all right there in the death line. and when you consider that all you need to MM is bone fiends and BotM, you arent tight on skill slots either. and you have an almost unlimited supply of energy. there isnt much harm in devoting one of the many spare skill slots to some kind of health management.

now if you are rolling with hero/hench, it doesnt matter because they will heal you no matter what. but with real ppl, make sure you know their position on the self heal question.

pingu666 · Mar 14, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

i just used healing breeze on mine, heal over time made it flexible, and as u control the health loss, its pretty effecient

jesh · Mar 15, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Why invest in healing prayers with better self heals available in the necro lines?
Why invest in a self heal at all if you're obviously playing PvE?
The only time I could justify taking a self heal is if you're running 2 MMs on purpose or using Order of Undeath.
Otherwise, BotM is all you need.

Carinae · Mar 15, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Why invest in healing prayers with better self heals available in the necro lines?

Because they involve killing a minion, or are regen based. Heal Area doesn't kill a minion, is on demand, and actually has some extra utility in certain situations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Why invest in a self heal at all if you're obviously playing PvE?

Because monks are unreliable. You'll get overhealed, or underhealed. It's not their fault, they don't know what you're going to cast and when. Even Hero/Hench monks are often unreliable. I've seen Lina and Mhenlo stand there looking at me with 4hp left and they weren't doing anything and they had energy.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

The only time I could justify taking a self heal is if you're running 2 MMs on purpose or using Order of Undeath.

Or both

OoU often requires a self-heal definately for the reasons I listed above. You don't want to kill a minion and you need healed NOW!

You can play MM with no self heal, sure. You can also play with matches.....

Pick Me · Mar 15, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Because they involve killing a minion, or are regen based. Heal Area doesn't kill a minion, is on demand, and actually has some extra utility in certain situations.

Taste Of Pain, Signet Of Lost Souls, Unholy Feast, Vampiric Gaze, etc. These do not kill minions, these also do not rely on regen based healing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Because monks are unreliable. You'll get overhealed, or underhealed. It's not their fault, they don't know what you're going to cast and when. Even Hero/Hench monks are often unreliable. I've seen Lina and Mhenlo stand there looking at me with 4hp left and they weren't doing anything and they had energy.....

Please do not over sacrifice yourself. I've seen it too many times, a MM sacrificing themselves to death. I don't trust henchies, I don't care if a human overheals or underheals me, just as long as I get healed. Afterall, if you die, your minions become the enemy to the party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Or both

OoU often requires a self-heal definately for the reasons I listed above. You don't want to kill a minion and you need healed NOW!

You can play MM with no self heal, sure. You can also play with matches.....

I always have a self-heal regarldess, but I'd rather use a necro self-heal rather than a 2ndary's self-heal (unless I'm a primary ele or mes).

Carinae · Mar 15, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Taste of Pain and SoLS both are conditional, so you have to be Johnny-on-the-Spot to get the effect, because (for me, at least) once I select a target, it dies very very quickly. Plus, you can't use them after a battle or when no monsters are around.

Many of the others are Blood based, so you're nearly in the same situation as Healing, except you can use runes. And again, those skills require an enemy to be present or a large sacrifice (Renewal). No, if you want to avoid Healing, stay in the Death line and just use ToD. Strong, fast, cheap heal and minions are often replaceable (but not always).

I strongly prefer HA. It's exactly right for my build and playstyle. Strong, on-demand with added utility, completely unconditional, and doesn't kill a minion.

There are essentially no drawbacks except the points in Healing, which MMs should be able to spare. I mean, all MM's have 16 DM, and 9-12 SR and maybe 1-4 Blood, so there are extra points to be had, especially if multiple Superior runes are being used.

Nevertheless, I'm not trying to say 'this is how you have to play', play how you want. I'm just defending HA, which gets a bad reputation as a nub spell. It actually is a very usefull skill for a MM with some synergy for the demands of the build.

Ensign · Mar 15, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

I only bother bringing a self heal if I'm trying to solo as a minion master. Otherwise, mash on BotM and let the monks sort it out.

Peace,
-CxE

Duke Bonebreaker · Mar 16, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Personally I like Verata's Sacrifice if you use it with a condition removal skill it becomes extremely effective.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Mar 16, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

I never take a self-heal when I play MM, of course now days I rely on my MM Heroes ands play my Necro differently. (I find MM boring after awhile, let the NPC do it

)

Really, when you MM, the only damage you should be taking is minion heal related, the monk in your party should easily be able to top you off on occasion. But, other Necro skills can offset some health costs.

Cathode_Reborn · Mar 16, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Wow, are people really that confident in pug-monks?

The MM has massive energy gain.....a monk doesn't. Unless you're playing with a guildy or trusted monk, no self-healing on an MM is stupid. It sounds more like a bunch of lazy people who can't be bothered to use their precious attribute points for healing purposes. Most people already know the dangers of pug'ing: Horrible players with bad builds. Just cause monks have an important role in every party doesn't make them good. If you're so confident that a monk will always have the energy/reflexes to heal you, then obviously you don't seem to realize that not everyone plays this game for many hours. Even then, not everyone who does play for loads of time knows how to play their favorite class right. As for hench monks, they're more reliable than pug-monks from my experience, but there's still no way I'm gonna MM without a self-heal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

I'm just defending HA, which gets a bad reputation as a nub spell. It actually is a very usefull skill for a MM with some synergy for the demands of the build.

It's decent, but not as great as people claim. Sure it could heal minions, but the healing range is really small. If you're the type that summons nothin but Bone Fiends to do tons of damage, it becomes abit more useful since they all bunch up. The problem there is HA is 10 energy and Fiends are 25. Everytime I see an MM, they use a bunch of lame melee minions and when they use HA, hardly any of them are in range to get healed.

BladeDVD · Mar 17, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

When I used to bring a self heal, I went with Karei's Healing Circle (factions copy of Heal Area).

I liked it because it helped heal minions INBETWEEN fights. When not fighting your minions surround you and are all in range of KHC. So I'd be running along and want to heal some minion degen, so I'd hit BotM and then KHC. Very satisfying.

Not a bad self heal in a fight too. I always found 10 (9+1) in Soul Reaping was plenty and even with 16 in Death, you have plenty of extra points to put into healing.

I stopped bringing self heals because I mostly play with hero/hench monks and they'll heal me whether I want them to or not. And it allowed for more interesting builds too.

If I wanted to spam BoTM all the time, then I'd go with Aura of the Lich as many have stated. It really is fun to be able to just keep smashing that button.