Curse

Samurai-JM · Mar 14, 2007, 05:20 AM // 05:20

[skill]Burst of Aggression[/skill] and [skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill]
What do these have in common, and how do they differ? Let's take a look.

Both skills are stances, and both have 5 seconds of +33% IAS, very useful for assassin spikes.
Burst of Aggression costs 5 energy, has a 12 second recharge, and causes the user to lose all adrenaline, which most assassins don't use anyway. Sounds good right?

How about Lightning Reflexes with its 10 energy cost, 45 second recharge, and hey at least it has a nice 75% chance to block? Yea right!! Right? Think again.

Take a look at this build:
[skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill][skill]Death's Charge[/skill][skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill][skill]Black Lotus Strike[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill][skill]Black Spider Strike[/skill][skill]Blades of Steel[/skill][skill]Feigned Neutrality[/skill]

The build is basically a PvE version of the standard SP/BoA sin. Comes fully equpped with a shadow step and 33% IAS, just as any normal Spike sin has. But this one is different. Not only does it have these standard traits, but it adds on a 75% chance to block all physical damage, near limitless energy, and a fully charged skillbar every few seconds. All you have to do is ensure that your target dies.

In PvE, this is hardly a problem. Most monsters fall to 2 or 3 attacks, while some of the larger ones require the full combo, and some others may even need the help of the entire team. This is where the controversy begins.

Most people unfavored the last attempt at a build like this, simply because it didn't work if the enemy didn't die. Whose fault was this though? Not the builds, not the enemies, but your own fault(no offense of course). All you need to do here is choose targets wisely, just as with any other assassin build. Take out targets such as monks, mesmers, elementalists, etc. first. Then when the mob begins to wind down to a few monsters, pile onto the heavier armored enemies with your team to ensure the kill. Simple as that.

Any questions/comments?

Arkantos · Mar 14, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22

You have to wait 45 seconds between each spike. That's the difference.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 14, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Banking an awful lot on your target dying. ANy number of things can screw you into oblivion, namely hex removal, blocking, interrupts, blind, etc. One cog in your chain goes wrong and you're stuck sucking down a 45 sec recharge on your only way to start your chain and your IAS. No thanks.

centur · Mar 14, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Assassin Promise solves this problem in case of successfull spike =).

Arkantos · Mar 14, 2007, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by centur

Assassin Promise solves this problem in case of successfull spike =).

if target dies without AP getting removed.

Now, why would you run this into a 5e IAS?

xDusT II · Mar 14, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

But if it isn't successful your shut down for 45 seconds...

Shendaar · Mar 14, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

I guess its the price to pay for a powerful self-recharging combo with a block and IAS stance in one. I could see it working well in PvE, especially in the easier areas, but Assassin Promise is a big no no anywhere that you can't guarantee a kill at least 80% of the time.

Evaem Asollan · Mar 14, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43

For aspenwood or Ab I love running this build:

Assassins Promise
Dark Prison
Burst of Aggression
Black Lotus Strike
Horns of the Ox
Black Spider Strike
Blades of Steel
Impale

Attributes (I think):
12 + 1 Dagger
11 + 1 Deadly
6 + 1 + 1 Crit

Not much lives through that chain unless they have stances or backup. In ab I always have a monk with my so a self heal isn't that important. I don't need a heal in aspenwood since its very fast respawns and most of the action is in the castle. The build shines when you take people trickling in from spawn points. Kill one after the other non-stop.

I'll have to try Lightning Reflexes to see if I can support the upfront energy cost.

Priest Of Sin · Mar 14, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

In ABs, BoA is hillariously ineffective now. Every ranger is bringing an evasion stance, every ele is bringing blind. Monks know how to counter it to oblivion, and will simply put Guardian on themselves in case they see Shadow Prison cast on them. This build kinda swaps it up nicely, and they don't really notice the spike untill it's too late.

But nothing beats the Signet Spiker with Augury Of Death...

FoxBat · Mar 14, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I've been running that exact bar on a ranger for a while, but good point that you don't even need expertise thanks to promise, and can squeeze out some extra damage with assassin runes and critical strikes.

Anything this reliant on promise is a little fragile in areas with hex removal and decent monks, but it's still an awesome build in most of PvE. At least the dark prison variant gives you a cover hex.

Coloneh · Mar 14, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

you shouldnt need the 75% to block if you are spiking right.

ensoriki · Mar 14, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

coloneh thats rather absurd, in pve there is rarely just 1 enemy. there are many and they come at you in waves after waves after.....waves.

You can kill someone sure, but what about there team mates?

Anyways pve builds generally always have
Sins promise
AoD
Moebuis
Shadow meld... (well not really)
Not much makes it any different from BoA sin tho

pingu666 · Mar 14, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

i run something similer, 90%+ of the time ull mow stuff down its really funny, time to kill isnt that much higher for high al targets (try the test dummies)

a backup or helper hex can help alot (u dont nessesarily need to carry it), something like expose defenses

Arkantos · Mar 15, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

coloneh thats rather absurd, in pve there is rarely just 1 enemy. there are many and they come at you in waves after waves after.....waves.

He's right though. You shadow step in, spike your opponent, and get out. You have monks to heal you while getting out. the 75% is useless.

Crazyvietguy · Mar 15, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

He's right though. You shadow step in, spike your opponent, and get out. You have monks to heal you while getting out. the 75% is useless.

Correct, First off you shouldnt lead the attack anyways so the focus shouldnt be even 50% on you. While I prefer to teleport in and out for PvE, a speed buff is just as effective. While the 75% bonus is nice and may prevent any and all damage it isnt crucial to survival.

While this is an interesting take on the BoA Sin in PvE (which I appreciate, at least your thinking and coming up with something different and effective, yes this is effective.) I dont see it becoming any sort of popular. I did test it, I hardly prefer this over my [skill]Shadow Walk[/skill] + [skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill] because of the teleporting, basic hit and run tactics.

I would like to see, instead of death's charge perhaps [skill]Return[/skill] since running in shouldnt be as difficult as running out..usually

Also.. IAS for assassins in PvE doesnt carry the same effect that it does in PvP. Reason being is PvE monsters (from my experience) dont have the thought process to counter with guardian or another evasive spell immediately. That combo you have there is around 4 seconds..ish. For a human this isnt a entirely too difficult counter, however youll find most monsters, with the exception of high level monks and rangers, wont be able to counter this at all, and if they do you only need to swing at them 1 or 2 more times.

However, nice job converting an overused PvP technique into something that works fairly well in PvE.

FoxBat · Mar 15, 2007, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Erm, assuming you aren't facing elemental damage, and you have 75% blocking... why *NOT* lead the attack? You can tank while dealing out the damage then, keep your team from getting as beaten up.

Again if you have 75% blocking, why should you get out? Just keep on leaping around and killing.

Maybe that works better on rangers who are already immune to anything they can't block (except a blood spike from those wallow packs, grrr...)

And with promise.... the point of IAS isn't to circumvent reaction times, its to kill faster. Your combo is recharged as soon as something dies, so the sooner it dies, the sooner you get onto the next one. You can't fit in that IAS with shadow walk.

Samurai-JM · Mar 15, 2007, 03:29 PM // 15:29

^Exactly my point. The only thing assassins have little defense against right now is elemental damage, and I'm trying out things such as critical defenses/elemental resistance to counter that, but Its still a work in progress.

The 45 second downtime is only a problem if you don't pay attention. As long as you stick to proper targets, they will always die. And if they don't, 45 seconds isn't THAT long to wait if you think about it, just stay out of trouble while the party handles it. The best situation is when you have other party members who use hexes, so even if something goes wrong you are still very effective, just not as fast.

Kaleban · Mar 21, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

He's right though. You shadow step in, spike your opponent, and get out. You have monks to heal you while getting out. the 75% is useless.

I'm sure 75% blocking ALWAYS while rapid firing your combos is terrible, especially when going for, say, Survivor titles?

Sure, its the elemental damage in Factions (spec Afflcited) that hurts Sins the most, but if you move to NF, there is a lot of nasty physical damage there.

For an extra 5 energy, what sin can say NO to free 75% blocking above and beyond 35% IAS? Hardly useless or stupid.

For constructive criticism, I would suggest in PvE to replace BoS with Death Blossom. You're far more likely to face large mobs for the majority of time than single high health targets. Plus DB's damage comes close to BoS without the conditional recharging attacks. In PvE, I usually go with this four attack chain:

BLS->DB->BSS->TF (swap positions of BSS and BLS, energy permitting)

This way, I guarantee I do massive damage all around me before finishing off my target with TF. Also, I personally prefer Dark Prison to Death's Charge, since you not only get the snare effect, but it also acts as a cover hex for AP in the case of hex removing mobs. For me, FN is a good enough heal, even with the duration reduction.

Arkantos · Mar 21, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

I'm sure 75% blocking ALWAYS while rapid firing your combos is terrible, especially when going for, say, Survivor titles?

When your group first aggro's, all melee will run towards your group. You shadowstep to their backlines. The melee will not target you when they are after one of your casters in your backline while you are in their backline. So if you really think 75% block vs wanding is worth the extra 5 energy, go for it.

Kaleban · Mar 21, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

When your group first aggro's, all melee will run towards your group. You shadowstep to their backlines. The melee will not target you when they are after one of your casters in your backline while you are in their backline. So if you really think 75% block vs wanding is worth the extra 5 energy, go for it.

In my experience, using a build like this and zealous daggers, I end up with a surplus of energy at the end of the combo.

Plus, the aggro of mobs, combined with lag or other factors does not guarantee that you will never draw aggro as a sin in PvE, whether hero/henching or with humans.

So, IMHO 75% block versus melee mobs, and ranger mobs is worth an extra 5 energy, especially considering if you have a competent healer or two in your group, you can swap out FN for SoTS which is gravy damage.

Besides, with Radiant insignias and Runes of Attunement, why would you NOT want a free 75% block rate just in case by switching out the only secondary profession skill for a superior one? Habit?