Curse

moko · Mar 03, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

FURIOUS IS TEH LEET ON DAGGERS SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

well i guess all has been said already.

Kiba of hidden leaf · Mar 03, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Temple strike builds innefective? Shows what some people know.

I believe i said somewhat innefective. The difference between somewhat ineffective and ineffective is that the build is only good in some situations. For example you fight a warrior you blind him(big deal). He just heals until hes not blinded, either you run or your dead. So it does show what i know.

Dutch Masterr · Mar 03, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

all i need is 15^50 zealous/vampiric of fortitude.

the ever-hated 15% vs hexed foes can actually be good for an assassin with build including shadow prison and other hexes.

and about temple strike....we all know wastrel's collapse just beats the crap out of that skill =)

ZenRgy · Mar 05, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Sundering is overrated - everyone here knows that
Zealous is overrated - Assassins do chained attack skills and chained attack skills doesn't have double strike applied. So in comparison, you're only reducing each of your attack skill's energy cost by 1. Assassin's main energy management still come from critical strike.
Vampiric - 3 extra damage is not a lot if you're going to use attack skills

Conclusion: Non of these 3 mods gives you significant advantage on the battle field.

Silencing is the mod that I perfer, because 2 extra seconds of daze is very deadly.

Hahahahahahahaha.

dargon · Mar 05, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Zealous is never about reducing the cost of a skill, etc. It's about increasing your energy regen while in combat. 1 pip of regen = 1/3 of a point of energy per second. Trading that single pip for a weapon that gives you +1 energy each hit almost always works out for the better in energy regen (provided the player is attacking and not sitting back, waiting for skills to recharge)

clawofcrimson · Mar 05, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

zealous, vamp and elemental for the warriors

mrlopes · Mar 05, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

4 Weapon Slots filled with!
Zealous, Vamp, Elemental and a Longbow

NinjaKai · Mar 05, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Hahahahahahahaha.

Just because someone doesn't use what are considered the staple mods doesn't mean his choice of weaponary is any less valid than an anothers.

Though I won't argue with the fact that a silencing mod on a pair of daggers is unusual. Considering that the only assassin skills that cause dazed are elites. But to each his own. No fun if everyone used the same builds.

ZenRgy · Mar 05, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

Just because someone doesn't use what are considered the staple mods doesn't mean his choice of weaponary is any less valid than an anothers.

Though I won't argue with the fact that a silencing mod on a pair of daggers is unusual. Considering that the only assassin skills that cause dazed are elites. But to each his own. No fun if everyone used the same builds.

Yes, but he trashed Vampiric and Zealous, and didn't even mention elemental, we're talking about daggers, not builds.

Beguiling Haze and Temple strike, although not as cookie cutter as Shadow Prison/BoA sins are still fairly standard.

Sqube · Mar 08, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

I'm all about Zealous/Elemental of Enchanting, myself. I've got some Vampiric of Enchanting, but I don't really know that 3 health is going to make or break anyting; running a lead --> offhand --> dual build, that will only get you 12 extra health.

I don't really remember many times where 12 health was a difference maker for me; I could be wrong though. That said, sundering is always there because sundering on just about every other weapon due to their higher base damage. So people never even stopped to think how much extra damage you could get using sundering on daggers and just assumed it was awesome.

The moral of the story? In my opinion, your four daggers should be:

Zealous of Enchanting
Zealous of Fortitude
Elemental of Enchanting
Elemental of Fortitude

That's my take on it, anyway. Don't forget those +5 energy inscriptions, too; most of the time, it's probably going to be a lot more useful than your 15^50, especially if you get DP. As a quick aside, 15^50 applies to all damage, not just the base dagger damage, right?

/$0.02

Shuuda · Mar 08, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiba of hidden leaf

I believe i said somewhat innefective. The difference between somewhat ineffective and ineffective is that the build is only good in some situations. For example you fight a warrior you blind him(big deal). He just heals until hes not blinded, either you run or your dead. So it does show what i know.

well, Temple strike has plenty of uses.

1: Blind other Assassins, or warriors who pose a threat to your monks, eles or whatever.
2: Daze casters to prevent them from casting spells to stop you from killing them.

And using a warrior as an example of a situation is bad, because most assassins go for sotfer targets. Indeed, it shows what you know.

On the subject of daggers, I try to go for Slashing non ele damage daggers (Unless my build reqires a certain element) As Ele armor can lower the damage from elements, Necros do have armor which can help Vs piercing, and rangers get extra AL vs ele damage.

Carl Butanananowski · Mar 08, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Damn, looks like I need to get me some 5/1 vamp daggers. And a better pulling bow.

Anyway, I use the Ceremonial Daggers for the 15^50, Zealous, and +30 hp, and with 16 dagger and 10 crit hits, thats something around... 18-19% chance (give or take, not looking atm), while also factoring Critical Eye, +7% AND +1en on crit, so thats something like.. +3+1+1. I'm unsure if dual attacks add energy on crit or just make it 100% chance.

But I ramble. Zealous + Critical Eye + 16 dagger and 10 crit = Energy. Lots and lots of energy. So go out all of you noob assassins and GET 'ER DONE!!

PS: Can someone explain to me what you mean by "Zealous/Vamp of Enchanting/Fortitude" etc..?

Sqube · Mar 08, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

There are no 5/1 vampiric daggers; it's only 3/-1.

16 DM is kinda high, but you can do that if you want. Hittin 10 CS is... kinda weird. You should be shooting for breakpoints, which are (IIRC) 8 or 13. If you're not hitting one of those, a lot of people (myself included) feel you're wasting points that could be used more efficiently elsewhere. You know, like raising Shadow Arts or whatever you're going to use to heal yourself.

Dual attacks only give you +3 energy if they're criticals; the only dual guaranteed to give you a critical is [skill=text]Critical Strike[/skill].

Zealous/Vampiric of Enchanting/Fortitude are dagger tangs and handles, respectively. If you don't know what those are, read about weapon upgrades on GuildWiki.

It's just a way of saying what type of daggers should be carried, like Zealous Dagger Name of Enchanting, where dagger name is the name of the dagger if you're using a non-green.

Shadows Assasin X · Mar 08, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

I carry 4. 1 zealous, 1 vamp, 1 20/20 sunder pair, and one elemental DMG pair

Sqube · Mar 09, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Why do you carry sundering daggers? I'm not trying to sound sarcastic or anything; it's just that, with the preponderance of evidence showing that it's not as useful for us as it is for the other melee classes, I don't understand why you'd put it on a pair of daggers when you could use something else that would give you so much more damage.

Livingston · Mar 09, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

I absolutely love sundering mods.

As I have absolutely no use for them and can sell them for insane amounts of money. Tres cool. ^_^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sqube

I'm all about Zealous/Elemental of Enchanting, myself. I've got some Vampiric of Enchanting, but I don't really know that 3 health is going to make or break anyting; running a lead --> offhand --> dual build, that will only get you 12 extra health.

I don't really remember many times where 12 health was a difference maker for me; I could be wrong though. That said, sundering is always there because sundering on just about every other weapon due to their higher base damage. So people never even stopped to think how much extra damage you could get using sundering on daggers and just assumed it was awesome.

The use of vampiric is not for gaining health it's for the health that you are taking away. This means that every hit you are doing is dealing 3 extra damage. Even though that doesn't seem like much, as many people have calculated on this board, it ends up being a whole lot more than what sundering offers, due to the low chance of it actually coming off. The only use it would have is for spiking, and it doesn't even do that very well as you can't control when it spikes. This is why people prefer zealous for assassins. It keeps up their energy so they can get more skill attacks off which do massive amounts of damage.

I realize you know the last part of that Sqube, it was for those that are using sundering.

Livingston

lord_shar · Mar 09, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sqube

...<SNIP>...

That's my take on it, anyway. Don't forget those +5 energy inscriptions, too; most of the time, it's probably going to be a lot more useful than your 15^50, especially if you get DP. As a quick aside, 15^50 applies to all damage, not just the base dagger damage, right?

/$0.02

No, 15>50 and +20% customization only affects base weapon damage. It doesn't affect extra bonus damage from skills. This is easily verified using Unsuspecting Strike, a 15>50 customized max damage dagger (7-17 dmg, total +35% dmg), and a 60AL target dummy.

At 13 critical strikes, unsuspecting strike deals +96 damage vs. a full health target. An observed dagger critical hit vs. 60AL target = 33 damage (DM=12). If the bonus skill damage is boosted by the 15>50 customized dagger, then you will observe a +130 damage boost (maximum damage possible = 163 on a critical with US-attack). However, observed critical hits with unsuspecting strike only result in total 129 damage (DM=12) vs. 60AL targets instead of the projected 163. Therefore, unsuspecting strike's +96 damage isn't being multiplied by the customized 15>50 dagger's damage modifier.

EDIT: Please feel free to correct any mistaken information above

I wrote this in a rush, so I'm sure there's probably something I missed lol.

Takuna · Mar 09, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

H0lie w0wz! im guNa g3t p0oned bi -1 p1p!!! Vampiric just smacks sundering, IMO. I mean, you're not going to run around with it, are you? Just switch to zealous.

Sqube · Mar 09, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Man, they were serious about that learning something new everyday.

Looks like I'm going to have to find a bunch of +5 energy inscriptions; they'll be a lot more useful.

lord_shar · Mar 09, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sqube

Man, they were serious about that learning something new everyday.

Looks like I'm going to have to find a bunch of +5 energy inscriptions; they'll be a lot more useful.

Well, it depends... At Dagger Mastery = 12 vs. 60AL targets, a customized +5 energy dagger set hits for 29 damage, while a 15>50 customized hits for 33 damage, netting you +4 damage per strike. That +4 doesn't seem like much, but assassins routinely hit with a LOT of attacks, so that +4 damage bonus adds up very quickly. Throw in Black Lotus Strike or Critical Strike for energy management, and the +5 energy mod loses some of its luster.