Curse

Insert Cool Name Here · Jul 26, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

I just wanted to say 1st that I love playing my N/Me in GvG and HA. I just started in these areas from being a veteran in PvE. I mostly played MM and am just starting to see the fun in Blood and Curses. I have been using a modified build posted by Xenoranger for the build directory called Near Perfect Degen:

Profession: Necro
Name: Near Perfect Degen
Type: PvP & Alliance
Category: Degen Necro
Attributes:
Curses 12 (11+1)
Blood 12 + (11 + 1)
Soul Reaping 10 (7 + 3)
Illusion 8

Summary:
Skills

* Parasitic Bond (Curses) 5,1,2
* Life Siphon (Blood) 10,2,2
* Wither (Curses) {E} 10,2,10
* Shadow of Fear
* Enfeeble (Curses) 5,1,5
* Vile Miasma (Blood) 10,1,15
* Phantom Pain
* Gaze of Contempt

I find that he has amazing survivability once a start spamming Parasitic Bond and Life Siphon. I start degening and hexing everyone I can. I Enfeeble and Shadow of Fear any warriors that are pestering my monks, mes, or myself giving time to get away. My question is: The degen that I spread does not seem to help out that much, is my build weak or am I just looking at it the wrong way? Should I except my role that I do not directly kill people and just put pressure on the monks and individuals healing? Even if I put all my hexs on one person and have max degen it rarely kills anyone completely. Maybe I should use Feast of Corruption or some blood spike to deal some more damage. I wanted to know what is masters thought! Thanks.

Insert Cool Name Here · Jul 27, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

No Love?

Pick Me · Jul 27, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Okay, I'll share the love

I didn't comment, nor did I even look at this thread because its PvP, and I don't PvP.

I only looked at it now, because you are the only one who responded to your own thread.

As for your build, since this is PvP, I'll try to critic it as best as I can.

Drop Shadow of Fear. It does nothing. Bring Faintheartedness in stead. It does the same thing as SoF, but it also adds degen.

Honestly, I don't know what type of enchantments you are worried about (Boon Prot, Smites, HB?, etc.) but I wouldn't care. I would drop Gaze of Contempt and use Desecrate Enchantments instead. Cast that and see how many enchantments are there.

Otherwise pretty good. Again, I don't do PvP, so I don't know how much my advice is worth to you.

Effigy · Aug 09, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Not a bad attempt. I'm glad to see you are bring utility skills like SoF and GoC instead of just pure degen. I'm also glad you aren't using Life Transfer. However, there are a few things you could improve. Bear in mind that I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but these are the suggestions I would make:

First of all, your attributes aren't set up very efficiently at the moment. Remember that as you raise a stat, each additional point costs more than the last. Hence, you want your headgear and your superior rune (if applicable) to correspond to the attribute you have the most points in. This is more cost effective and will allow you to maximize your potential. For instance, you could take 1 point out of either Blood or Curses, switch your headgear and biggest rune to the one you didn't lower, and use the leftover points in Soul Reaping.

Parasitic Bond and Life Siphon are staple degegn spells, so those should stay. Vile Miasma goes well with Enfeeble (which is a nice cover for the Deep Wound fron Phantom Pain, I might add), so that's probably worth keeping too; the only real downside is the recharge, but it's your call.

Wither I'm not so sure about. While it's not a bad spell, I just don't know if it really fits well in this build, since it's your only energy denial skill. Sure it can be used to pressure enemy casters and even warriors, but it will only be light to moderate pressure. Since your focus seems to be damage with some shutdown, I think Spiteful Spirit might be a better choice. Like you already said, degen doesn't really kill since it's capped at -10 (i.e. 20 dps). However, it becomes more effective when combined with other types of damage, which SS can provide. In a SS build, you would want to drop Shadow of Fear because that would actually reduce the effectiveness of SS. A better alternative is Reckless Haste, which serves the dual purpose of increasing their attack speed (more SS damage) while making them miss more (shutdown). When you add Enfeeble to the picture, you have pretty solid melee hate while still remaining flexible enough to harrass casters.

Gaze of Contempt is a nifty little skill, but the cost, cast time, and recharge reduce its effectiveness somewhat. It's certainly a viable option, but you may want to consider swapping it out for Awaken the Blood. AtB would give you an almost constant +2 to both Blood and Curses with no penalty, since you don't have any sacrifice skills.

Hope that helps a bit. Good luck with the character, I'm working on something similar with my necro for use in ABs.

holden · Aug 09, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Drop Shadow of Fear. It does nothing. Bring Faintheartedness in stead. It does the same thing as SoF, but it also adds degen.

no no. shadow of fear causes the target as well as all adjacent foes to attack 50% slower for a loooong time. i think the max duration is 39 seconds? cover this with p bond and the warrior is screwed. add enfeebling blood on it for the weakness and you have a mob of warriors/rangers doing nothing. not gaining adrenaline and not doing dmg.

Killaya · Aug 09, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Yes, Shadow of Fear will render the warriors fairly useless.

Glad to see someone using a Wither build- that's one of my favorite skills and it never gets any love. Though Effigy said to drop wither, I disagree- warriors do have energy skills too, and with the -2 energy degen and their small mana pool, you may be able to shut them down from skills such as healing signet (while it requires only 2 energy to cast, you can drain their energy down to 0 for just long enough to spike them to death.)

Insert Cool Name Here · Aug 09, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

I agree with both of you. Holden-Since I am looking for help in PvP I would have to say that Faintheartedness would be better. SS and reckless haste dont look real good for PvP.

Faintheartedness - Hex Spell
For the next 5-29 seconds, target foe attacks 50% slower, and that foe suffers health degeneration of 1-3.

The recharge is only 3 secs longer at the same cost.

Effigy-Gaze is a little intensive for this build, but my only other choices are Signet of Disenchantment or Drain Enchantment(which are both worse with not points in Inspir or Dom). Maybe I should be moving from one person to another fast and not worrying about enchantment stripping. I am going to dump gaze and use Awaken the blood. Also, point taken about skills point distribution.

Effigy · Aug 09, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

If you're going to stick with Wither, then Faintheartedness is a good choice. It doesn't synergize with SS though.

Gaze is a fine skill if you feel you need enchantment removal. AtB just seems more useful overall, but it depends on how you play I suppose. I suppose you could look at it as a matter of being proactive or reactive in your strategy. You could try to spread around as many and as powerful of hexes as possible, or you can try to negate the enemy's buffs. Of course one can do a little of both, but I usually to focus my builds on one overarching goal.

SS and RH may not be as effective in PvP as they are in PvE, but you might want to consider them. Especially in AB, since there are a lot of warriors, rangers, and touch rangers, not to mention that battles can often be chaotic and many less experienced players don't pay great attention to what's going on around them. Remember that SS affects touch ranger skills, although RH wouldn't help against them. I'm sure Wither would work fine, but it's geared more toward shutdown whereas SS/RH is a bit more offensively oriented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killaya

Glad to see someone using a Wither build- that's one of my favorite skills and it never gets any love. Though Effigy said to drop wither, I disagree- warriors do have energy skills too, and with the -2 energy degen and their small mana pool, you may be able to shut them down from skills such as healing signet (while it requires only 2 energy to cast, you can drain their energy down to 0 for just long enough to spike them to death.)

You make a good point here about using Wither on warriors. Most people think "caster hate" when they see Wither, but it can be just as devastating to Warriors since they only have 2 pips and thus would be completely unable to regen energy under the hex (apart from zealous, which would actually give them -1 pips). I'm not sure what you mean about Healing Signet coisting 2 energy though. All signets have an energy cost of 0 unless you are under the effect of Primal Echoes.

holden · Aug 09, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insert Cool Name Here

I agree with both of you. Holden-Since I am looking for help in PvP I would have to say that Faintheartedness would be better. SS and reckless haste dont look real good for PvP.

Faintheartedness - Hex Spell
For the next 5-29 seconds, target foe attacks 50% slower, and that foe suffers health degeneration of 1-3.

spiteful spirit/reckless haste is a fantastic combo in pve or pvp. SS is as good of a skill as there is in guild wars.

speaking to shadow of fear vs. faintheartedness....the degen from faint will go well with a degen build and the slower attack rate is great from both skills. but shadow of fear will allow you to slow down 2 or more warriors. you wont always have the luxury of only one warrior being in your face. many times there will be 2 or 3 and you won't have the time nor energy to put faintheartedness on everyone.

give everything a try. but if you've stepped foot into RA you already know the warriors hate your guts and will attempt to smash you straight away.

Ry Dia · Aug 09, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

If building a character of this sort, and it had to be necro primary (although, personally I find Mesmer primary better for hex heavy builds) I would use something along these lines:

Blood: 12 + 2
Curses: 11 + 1
Soul Reaping: Remaining points
Illusion: 3 if you want to use distortion.

Vamp Gaze
Shadow Strike
Offering of Blood (E)
Life Siphon
Faintheartedness
Parasitic Bond
Other Skill
Other Skill/Rez Sig

Some things to note in comparison to yours:

7 guaranteed degen unless removed, for 20+ seconds. (14dps)
Still have anti-warrior in faintheartedness.
Not profession locked to mesmer, so you have a utility slot than can be used for something like draw conditions for example.
E-Management in your elite to spread more hexes.
Has direct damage so it can assist on a kill, or finish someone off.

As for Wither...my opinion on the skill, which I used for a bit screwing around, is rather negative. And the reason is, the skill is just plain unreliable. You don't get guaranteed degen from it, because it never lasts anywhere near its duration, so you lose the degen pressure. And then anyone who knows about the skill at all, will know to weap swap (to negative energy set, or blank set) and the skill will remove itself. So now you lose both the e-denial of it, and the degen of it. A single energy burn outdoes wither 99% of the time if the other person has a clue. =/

Effigy · Aug 09, 2006, 09:09 PM // 21:09

It's true that negative energy swaps can turn Wither and Malaise into a nonfactor, but in AB and arenas many, if not most, players aren't going to use this tactic. I wouldn't suggest Wither for HA or GvG, but I could see it working in AB.

Still, I'd rather go with SS or some other elite.

Ry Dia · Aug 09, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

I don't really like to plan on my enemy being inexperienced. Even if SS/Wither for example would be better in some cases against an inexperienced enemy, I'd rather have useful skills that will work to their full effectiveness against a good player than useless skills that are good against the inexperienced and useless against the good or decent. Really, think about it...do you need SS to kill the crappy whammo or is he probably going to die cause he's crappy anyway?

Also, I think the build I posted is a lot more sustainable than his, has more useful overall skills, and has a utility slot to help his team.

Jetdoc · Aug 09, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Some comments on this thread...

I prefer Faintheartedness to Shadow of Fear because:

1. Degeneration, obviously.
2. The opportunities to snare 2+ warriors with Shadow of Fear are pretty rare, as most teams learn to space themselves to avoid area spells.
3. Ability to target specific individuals as the fight continues, versus a "beginning of the battle" spell.
4. Slower cast on Shadow of Fear makes it much more subject to interrupting.

I think some of the suggestions here spread out the OP's attributes too thin, especially with spreading the Life Siphon love. With Faintheartedness at +3 degen and Parasitic Bond at +1 Degen, casting another 2-3 hexes on that same person just isn't energy efficient. If you're really wanting a "Near Perfect Degen" build, your goal is to get that person to +10 degeneration as quickly as possible.

I would suggest...

Curses 15 (11+1+3)
Illusion 10
Soul Reaping 11 (10+1)

Faintheartedness (Curses)
Parasitic Bond (Curses)
Conjure Phantasm (Illusion)

Crippling Anguish{E} (Illusion)
Price of Failure (Curses)
Distortion (Illusion)

Rend Enchantments (Curses)
Ressurrection Signet

The first three are your spammable, "spread the degen hate" skills, getting your opponents to -9 degen quickly. The true boon is that each of them is a 1 second cast and have pretty quick recharge, so you can apply them very quickly.

The next two are your anti-warrior/anti-touch ranger hate. When combined with your degens, it can basically wipe these two classes out if they don't have other self heals/adequate monk support. Distortion is replaceable, but is a very nice "just in case" defensive skill if you're getting pounded on by multiple melee opponents.

I never go into any type of random PvP environment without Rend Enchantments. To me, there is just too high of a chance that you'll face an enchantment-based gimmick build (i.e. 55 monk, IW mesmer, etc.) that is highly unstoppable without this spell. I personally love "punishing" those players, who are inherently gambling that I'm not bringing this spell. I like to make them pay for that...

Ry Dia · Aug 09, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I know this is about Necro primaries, but I'm still going to debate efficiency.

(Please note: I like to debate efficiencies of different things, I'm not trying to tell anyone to play my way or downing their way of playing.)

If you're going to use Illusion for degen, you may as well just go mesmer and do it.

Me/X

FC: 8+1
Illusion: 12+2
Inspiration: 10+1

Conjure Phantasm 13s (23s) -5
Images of Remorse 10s (18s) -4
Crippling Anguish 19s (34s) -3 cripple
Mantra of Persistence 30 sec +79% illusion hex duration

Now with the last 4 slots, you can do a few things.
1) Something E-management (SoF, Drain Enchant, Power Drain)
2) Rez Sig/Hard rez/None (Depends on pvp type)
3) Shadow of Fear at 2 points still lasts 23 seconds.
4) Whatever utility skill depending on secondary.

Edit: Crippling Anguish only listed as it was used in above example.