Curse

Kali Magdalene · Jul 22, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

What kind of monk tries to use Rebirth in the middle of a fight at all? That's just moronic...

The inexperienced monk who uses it the first time in a fight, and then never touches it again.

Not that I ever did this...

...in Borlis Pass...

...at like 12th level...

ahem.

Master Fuhon · Jul 22, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

The easy solution would be talking to your group beforehand. Oftentimes the new people are reluctant to ask as they know they'll be booted for someone more experienced if the group leader finds out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

It ragequit ANY group right off that doesnt.... This idoesn't weed everyone out though.

Former Ruling, it seems that you have been saying that you are quitting groups instead of communicating with them. I did more than a few balanced PvE tombs groups with my Ele and Monk to know that some people were regulary going there everyday and could have benefited from the actual communication of an experienced group member. However, there is too much intolerance from your approach for you to be the type of person capable of helping a group.

Common balanced scenario: GLF tank, instead we get "high damage" warriors who need babying and blind/cripple removal. I make suggestions "Take a look at that exciting line of Tactics skills and pick a few defensive stances" and "if you must use Heal Sig always do so in a stance if under attack". Only problems I've ever had was a W/Me taking Elemental Resistance instead of Mantra of Flame which dropped his defenses against grasps. I always tell people to take the skills they know how to use, or suggest something easy to use, but some Frenzy under focus fire anyway. There are also cases of amusing warriors using Gladiator's Defense as they rush into battle against casters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

Some Monks are GLUED to being prot, so they'll invite when you say Healing monk needed, and when you get in they start spamming Prot Spirit and crap..

Lastly, Boon Protect can work in PvE tombs with or without the cover enchants from orders (done it in balanced with no cover enchants, maybe a gift of health/dwaynas kiss boon in B/P). I've seen an elementalist using Armor of the Earth be a very good puller when aided by protection spells. But your comments in particular are about Protective Spirit, which in my mind is the "God of PvE tombs PUG skill".

PS doesn't sit on you all of the time so it can be shattered, but it saves the life of any saccing MM who gets a train of grasps on him and works wonders on pets/people with high DP who die in 2 hits when someone must become a tank to hold aggro. Any lone healing monk should find room for this skill on his bar in high level areas at almost any cost because of the number of teams it saves by making anyone a tank. A healing monk is casting limited by 1 sec spells, which a protection monk is not. In bad tombs groups, 3 people getting hit at the same time was very common when I was monking. WoH only monks were commenting that there was no way that such groups could have survived, despite the fact that some were pretty good monks.

I carry Rebirth on a PvE monk in untimed missions; timed ones with bosses I bring a sig. Always call a rez, even if it doesn't stop team members from rushing in. The worst team members are the ones who think there is only one way to do something. The one-way-of-doing-things B/P is what drives most of the better players away. We don't take orders from fools. It's unfortunate that the fools are too impatient to listen to some of the more knowledgeable players anyway.

Amy Awien · Jul 22, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

If you are a Ranger...I don't care if your r/w, r/e, etcetc "pwns face" - a BP ranger is /mo for Rebirth...theres a REASON they carry rebirth.

I am rather curious to whatever it is about tombs that makes Rebirth so much better then Flesh of my Flesh that you'd have someone change secondaries for it?

Besides, a /Rt (with Restoration) could bring Recuperation or some other ritual, it's not like all 5 need to bring FW and Winnowing.

Quote:

Also don't forgot to bring your Pet...(I've seen rangers that didn't know to bring a pet).

Must have been one of those Factions rangers, tyrian rangers know how to handle animal companions

Ensign · Jul 22, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

There is a reason why all five rangers are R/Mo with Rebirth. The reason is because most players are terrible at Guild Wars. They do not know how to res people during combat, and generally approach the game with a plan of 'if anyone dies, wipe and try again'. It is funny as long as you are not playing with those people.

If your team is actually good, *none* of the rangers would be /monk, or carry Rebirth. The only copy of Rebirth in the build should be on the Order necro, who has to be a drooling moron to not live through a wipe. All of the rangers should have resurrection signets, and know how to keep a team from wiping by using them. None of them should be monk secondary. No monk secondaries allows the monk to use powerful enchantments on the rangers and otherwise be much more effective, instead of being confined to being a terrible reactive heal spammer.

I don't really understand why you're so mad about the monk taking a hard res. You're already stuck in the mentality of 'no combat ressing', hell you probably have seven rebirths already in this awesome group. Why would the 8th hurt? Also, by making all of the rangers /monk you've put a huge crunch on the skills a monk can actually use. What do you want on his bar, yet another direct heal that he cannot possibly ever use because of how fast all his other direct heals recharge?

People copy builds because they were effective for someone else, without any understanding of *why* those builds were effective. They inject their own awful assumptions into the builds usually and make them worse in the process. I can't blame people at all for not wanting to get involved in these shitfests. What is worse than being called a noob by an idiot who doesn't even understand his own build?

Peace,
-CxE

NoHomework · Jul 25, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

This type of thing is exactly why PvE produces newbs. Groups pressure them into just being a part of a template without teaching them the functions of every role. Like ensign said, if you use R/(not monk) then powerful skills like prot spirit, reversal, and seed become a possibility in tombs PvE. 5 copies of rebirth on rangers is a waste, and if PvE created smart guild wars players the B/P equation would have been fixed long ago.

milias · Jul 25, 2006, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoHomework

This type of thing is exactly why PvE produces newbs. Groups pressure them into just being a part of a template without teaching them the functions of every role. Like ensign said, if you use R/(not monk) then powerful skills like prot spirit, reversal, and seed become a possibility in tombs PvE. 5 copies of rebirth on rangers is a waste, and if PvE created smart guild wars players the B/P equation would have been fixed long ago.

Well, the thing is, by the time a player gets to PvE Tombs, he/she should've already learned the essentials of PvE play in Guild Wars, if he/she didn't get run or something like that. Tombs groups are farming groups, they're usually in it for the greens, ectos, or whatever. I don't think it's realistic to ask them to change to a less efficient build, just to teach someone how to play the game, which he/she should already know by that point in the game.

Paperfly · Jul 26, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

I don't think it's realistic to ask them to change to a less efficient build, just to teach someone how to play the game, which he/she should already know by that point in the game.

...Er, you just missed the point of the argument entirely. Said point being that the OP's (and others') B/P build is not the most efficient, but that no further moves are being made to improve it because people are stuck in their mentality. An irrational fear of wipes, in this case.

Effendi Westland · Jul 26, 2006, 09:30 AM // 09:30

With over 80+ tomb runs under my belt (balanced and b/p) I must admit that when I'm looking for a B/p group I avoid groups which make me change to /monk. I don't mind a few /monk rangers in the group, but ultimately you shouldn't need so many.

I must admit certain points are always dangerous, but when I notice all the pets and minions are dead I kindly tell everybody to strategicly retreat and rez pets asp (PANIC, NO BODYBLOCK, SQUISHIE DIE TIME IS HERE, RUN RUN RUN REZ PET REZ PET, gets their attention

).

I think the reason for wanting every ranger to be /mo comes from not playing it the balanced way. Without player tanks you can neglect the effect of finger of chaos...... till the pets and minions are dead ofcourse, and that is where most b/p groups start to run into trouble.

In an other group one of the rangers (not r/w or r/mo) can tank with the protection slammed onto him by the boon/prot monk (why full healing? got a order/heal necro already) and maybe his r/ne buddie will help him by spamming enfeebling blood (not throw dirt, throw dirt violates personal space and will break aggro!!) until the pets and minions are back up their feet.

NJudson · Jul 26, 2006, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Well, in some matter or another pretty much everyone here has legitimate reasoning based on their own experiences. My personal experience having done Tombs about 15 times (only completing 4 times) is that the #1 reason why the B/P groups fail is because of quitters/disconnects. I in no way claim to be as good as Paperfly in being able to finish out the tombs run when 4+ people quit; however, I have finished it once with only 6 players and once with only 7 players.

I don't know what the "magic" formula is to getting into a good group that will stay even when the sh-t hits the fan is, but I'd certainly like to know what that is. I started ToPK for the first time only a few weeks ago and have quit playing it after only about one and a half weeks because my patience has worn on me. I despise quitters.

NoHomework · Jul 27, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

...Er, you just missed the point of the argument entirely. Said point being that the OP's (and others') B/P build is not the most efficient, but that no further moves are being made to improve it because people are stuck in their mentality. An irrational fear of wipes, in this case.

I'm glad you noticed that paper :P NJudson the best solution would be to keep PUGging and add people with a clue to your friends list one by one. I don't think it will be too hard to find people to B/P with, but trying different builds in there might be out of the question :P So few people give a crap about getting better at GW.

elektra_lucia · Jul 29, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by .neuronster.

Indeed. I concur. I am just too nice....even though I really shouldn't be. Although, lately, I have been leaving groups if they are really n00bish and ignorant. I am growing more and more tired of n00bs each day.

Hmm, there is noobs and noobs...

An ignorant person who brags about his ignorance and wishes to remain ignorant... Yeah, rage quit (don't blame you for it).

Someone who doesn't know, but is the sort to accept advice... Teach^.

Quote:

There is a reason why all five rangers are R/Mo with Rebirth. The reason is because most players are terrible at Guild Wars. They do not know how to res people during combat, and generally approach the game with a plan of 'if anyone dies, wipe and try again'. It is funny as long as you are not playing with those people.

If your team is actually good, *none* of the rangers would be /monk, or carry Rebirth. The only copy of Rebirth in the build should be on the Order necro, who has to be a drooling moron to not live through a wipe. All of the rangers should have resurrection signets, and know how to keep a team from wiping by using them. None of them should be monk secondary. No monk secondaries allows the monk to use powerful enchantments on the rangers and otherwise be much more effective, instead of being confined to being a terrible reactive heal spammer.

I don't really understand why you're so mad about the monk taking a hard res. You're already stuck in the mentality of 'no combat ressing', hell you probably have seven rebirths already in this awesome group. Why would the 8th hurt? Also, by making all of the rangers /monk you've put a huge crunch on the skills a monk can actually use. What do you want on his bar, yet another direct heal that he cannot possibly ever use because of how fast all his other direct heals recharge?

People copy builds because they were effective for someone else, without any understanding of *why* those builds were effective. They inject their own awful assumptions into the builds usually and make them worse in the process. I can't blame people at all for not wanting to get involved in these shitfests. What is worse than being called a noob by an idiot who doesn't even understand his own build?

Peace,
-CxE

Owned, lol.