Curse

Elaine Donnerbalken · Jul 31, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Bad/mediocre skills are needed so people can improve since people want to improve. (If they can't improve their armor in GW [equiment to balanced for grinding] , and/or aren't good enough to improve their skill, at least they can improve their skills.)

Thats the reason why a big part of MMORPG consists of grinding.

Think of the new PvE wannabe damage elem "Orion", spamming flare because he has nothing else to cast. Now he completes a quest and gets fireball. Wohoo!

Lynxius · Aug 01, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

I wouldnt exactly call them bad useless skills.
A good player will use good and "bad" skills to his advantage in the situation he desires, he will use them effectivelly.
A bad player will just either pick "bad" skills and play crap, or pick good skills and play crap.
In the end, it doesnt really matter if the skill is uber godly or useless crap, sure there are crap skills out there, but there are also great skills, and sometimes, in certain situations, a combination of good and "bad" skills can prove to be imensily efective.
The Experienced good player will use good and "bad" skills to his advantage.
The Inexperienced bad player will copy a build and play it crap, or make his own and play it crap.
Not criticizing n00bs out there, in fact theyd do well to use a pre-built in pvp to get used to the proffession before customizing their builds.

Anyway, lesson of the day: Its the combination of skills that you have that counts, be them good and "bad", and your efectiveness in using them.

gasmaskman · Aug 01, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowly Peasant

2 very bad skills. Glyph of Sacrifice and Glyph of Essence(which makes glyph of sacrifice look like an elite).

Glyph of Sacrifice + Restore Life = instant party member!

Poison Ivy · Aug 01, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Depending on the situation, there is no good, or bad, or best

You simply havn't exprinced enough of life to notice that, or you have a thick skull.

(To the OP)

Anakin The Paladin · Aug 01, 2006, 04:11 AM // 04:11

I think there has to be bad skills because if there wasnt you would start out with good skills and never would need more.

Symbol · Aug 01, 2006, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Depending on the situation, there is no good, or bad, or best

You simply havn't exprinced enough of life to notice that, or you have a thick skull.

(To the OP)

Or neither is the case, and you're just talking nonsense.

Saphatorael · Aug 01, 2006, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Each skill has it's use, sometimes it's more obvious... but when people say Purge Signet/Signet of Disenchantment/any other skill that drains all your energy sucks, have they ever considered using it on a prof combo that doesn't require alot of energy?
I've used Purge Signet with my W/Mo (so i can support anyone stacked with hexes and conditions without suffering from it THAT much) and it helped out the team alot... plus, if you're a caster, you can always switch foci..

About the degen of Seeping Wound... -3 degen doesn't look as much, but i can imagine that it puts quite alot of pressure on the opponents (but yeh, it's not something i'd actually use)

glountz · Aug 01, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

About the degen of Seeping Wound... -3 degen doesn't look as much, but i can imagine that it puts quite alot of pressure on the opponents (but yeh, it's not something i'd actually use)

No skill is intrinsically bad or good. It's bad when there are better skills for the same effect.
Seeping Wound would be excellent if all other degen hexes were heavy on energy or on recharge, or if degen conditions were weaker. But that's not the case. So it's crap.

We are not really talking about intrinsically bad skills, but about balance. Remember the pre-nerf "gale" discussion. The issue was not that gale was an "overpowered" skill on its own, the issue was that it was more effective than any other knockdown, because unconditionnal.
From what I see, most imbalance in GW comes from the lack of consideration from the devs on no or few recharge, no or short cast time effects, and, especially, unconditionnality. I think (it's just an opinion) they are too much focusing on the inherent effect of a skill instead of it's usability. That's why elementalists damage spells are so slandered: their heavy and impractical use overcomes largely their inherent effect. But in PvP, usability is the key.
"Bad" skills are often too conditionnal or have too much drawbacks compared with another skill which may have a less powerful effect, but that can be used in every situation.

You have only 8 slots. You can face plenty of builds among your opponents. These constraints lowers greatly the value of conditionnal or "heavy" skills.
If you could have 30 skills exchangeable in your pocket, a little like Diablo II, then conditionnal skills would shine. But you don't.

Taking the example of Seeping wound.
To apply its effect, it needs poison or bleeding. Still, one of it's strenght is that it can be casted or it doesn't end when these conditions are not present on your target. It has a cheap cost, and an average recharge. Its effect (degen) is low compared to other degen skills (like Conjure Phantasm, Life Transfer/Life siphon).
Let me try to unnerf this skill to make it usable. You have two ways to do this : either you improve its usability either you improve its inherent effect. I will still keep its elite status. The fact that it is in Critical strike, so only usable by sins, lower again its value.

Seeping Wound 1 (usability improved)
5 Energy 1/4 second cast time 2 sec recharge
Elite Hex Spell. For 5...17] seconds if target foe is suffering from any condition, that target foe suffers Health degeneration of -1...-3.

This way, Seeping Wound 1 looks more like an Elite, cheap and spammable Vile Miasma (cold damage excepted).

Seeping wound 2 (Inherent effect improved)
5 Energy 1 second cast 10 seconds recharge
Elite Hex Spell. For 5...24 seconds, if target foe is suffering from Bleeding or Poison, that foe suffers Health degeneration of -1...-5 (7 at 15 Critical strikes).

This way, Seeping Wound 2 deals approximatively the same degen than life transfer (a little less), and with high critical strikes+bleeding or poison you can put an opponent to -10 degen to finish him, what was intended I think when this skill was created.

Sorry for the long post.

Lynxius · Aug 01, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

No skill is intrinsically bad or good.
We are not really talking about intrinsically bad skills, but about balance.

My point exactly, what matters is a good combination of skills, and thats what gw is all about, having infinite combinations of skills good for certain situations and bad for others.
A skill is only as bad as is the player playing it.