Curse

Servant of Kali · Jun 24, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Sigh. I just have to reply and clear some... misconceptions.

Im not gonna debate whether the skill needs nerf or not, that's not the point of my replies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathwish Warrior

and its not like builds are completely built on blinding flash and....

Ever been to Team Arena? It's part of the game as well. And ele builds there are built on blinding flash. It's all you need to have, the rest is nice bonus. If a good team has ele, it's flash ele. The amount of non-flash eles in good TA teams is like under 0,5%.

I prefer finding counters than asking for a nerf, but saying how no build is made around that skill when all people were asked recently was GLF blindflash ele..

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

Besides, take this spell away, and Eles may drop out of the GvG scene altogether.

Granted, i dont play GvG much, but i do observe sometimes, and there are plenty of water eles. And air spikes too. And i see fire eles as well. And heal party eles. The amount of flash eles i see in GvG is.. rare. Eles dropping out of GvG.. uh ya.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rykiel

Because Blinding Flash costs 15 energy which is already too much for me.

Wait, you play ele without any attunements? Sure im not ele pro, i find eles boring, but 15e? How much does the skill cost after 2 attunements? Do you still think it's alot?

Quote:

As for the whole nerfing thing, elementalists already got all their AOE skills nerfed. That was their strength.

Oh pls that's BS, if strenght is exploiting monster AI then geez im glad u got 'nerfed'. That's called FIX and BALANCE, not nerf. It's like noob WMo's yelling to mesmer or monk in pvp "wtf u suck dont run, face me!". That's how i see all noob pve eles "oh damn monsters dont stand still while my uber nuke pwns em". Wow... yea.. a pity.

And btw aoe nerf happened only in pve if im not wrong, in pvp nothing happened to it. We are talking about pvp here.

Quote:

If anything, Elementalists need to be buffed, and their AOE skills reworked.

Yea, their AoE skills should have "target cannot move until the ele aoe skill expires". That way noob eles would have a field day. I mean, why bother mastering a profession? Just complain to Anet and make em do the job for you. Or better yet, eles should have a skill "Lure" - "If there is active ele aoe in the area, all monsters in aggro range go in that aoe area and stay there for xy min". Yea.. i think that would be great skill for many eles.

Also, necros should be booster according to ele aoe spells. When target is hexed with Spiteful Spirit, that target cant stop attacking. I mean uh! It's not fair if the target stops attacking. How can they make SS so inferior to ele aoe spells? When mesmer casts backfire on a monk, monk should keep casting skills. It's just not fair that monk stops or even (imagine that!) removes the hex! Oh horror! Someone call for a buff quick.

Quote:

By the way, I've had enough of Warriors using Irresistable Blow, Endure Pain

Yea.. endure pain is a dreadful skill. Everyone in pvp fears it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empirism

or ritualists have a shadowsong and there are many other blinding skills too

Instead of looking at each profession skill set, you should actually try playing Ritualist and use Shadowsong. It's not as incredible skills as you think it is, because unless warrior is the only one in range, shadowsong will more likely hit caster.

Quote:

Let's talk about the REAL blind turret: Shadowsong.

As i said, try playing Ritualist. Im tired of wannabes on every forum who judge the book by its cover.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

Eles have been nerfed hard, over and over..

I see. So when 100 pve groups need 30 eles and zero mesmers... would u say thats balanced? Ah.. but when they need 10 eles and 10 mesmers, that's omg nerf and imbalance? How bout, wake up? There is a world outside ele castle.
-----

Regardless of whether skill needs nerf or not,
- stop talking about 15 energy. If ele focuses on blindflash, he should have 1-2 attunements
- blinding flash IS slightly overpowered in 4v4. It's not as easy to remove condition as you think. Especially not spammable. The monk WONT be able to remove blind, he's gonna be e-drained and whacked by thumper. Support character (MeMo perhaps) will need to spam mend ailment as fast as ele spams flash. If no other condition removal.. bummer
- energy isnt an issue in 4v4 because battles are over before ele runs out of energy
- no counters... aside of lucky diversion, there are no counters. E-draining that much energy is science fiction in fast paced battle, and removing attunements.. well not many teams have 2 enchant removals. They need more 2 hex removals otherwise any hex team ownz em
- just because you suck at playing ele that doesnt mean there r people who can keep someone blind whole battle (in TA) AND kill off the target with other spells.

Im aware that TA isnt 'top pvp', but in 4v4 it is slightly overpowered whether you want to admit it or not. In 8v8 i dont think this skill is overpowered.

Arknow · Jun 24, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

why bother learning how to play effectivly when u can just kiss a dev's ass and get the skills u have a hard time fighting nerfed into worthlessness, sure beats hours of practice

TadaceAce · Jun 25, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Look at what happend to Crippling Shot. It was a condition too and could be removed but it was TOO spammable. And hell that was an Elite skill.

Crippling shot was also instantly covered by apply poison, two it cost 5 energy on any ranger with expertise, three it made the almighty warrior even better. Warriors are the undisputed damage champions of the game, if anything they need more counters.

Green Dragonhunter · Jun 25, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

^ ^ I agree blinding doesnt need to be nerfed it has a 15e cost and something with that much of an energy cost cant really be spammed.

makosi · Jun 26, 2006, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

Crippling shot was also instantly covered by apply poison, two it cost 5 energy on any ranger with expertise, three it made the almighty warrior even better. Warriors are the undisputed damage champions of the game, if anything they need more counters.

Bingo. That's always been my perception of Guild Wars. I get the feeling that Anet LOVE the warriors <insert flame here>. There are probably hundreds of ways to piss off a monk or mesmer but only a fraction of ways of annoying a warrior. Lets face it, Anerf took about 3 months to do something about IWAY which it is now universally agreed was overpowered.

Blinding Flash with its 15 energy is not spammable unless you're running an emo HP, Ether Prodigy build that deals no damage. You can try some water snares but their durations are pathetic and your 'swiss army knife warrior' has sprint hidden somewhere to catch up with you again. Then there's kiting. Great in theory but in GW the warrior doesn't actually need to be up that close to hit you so as soon as you turn a corner you're getting thumped again and they have spirt/rush and cripples or knock-downs. So you try Guardian or Whirling Defense and the hammer warrior uses Iressitible Blow or Swift Chop or Seeking Blade and they're dealing more constant damage. In fact, up until Factions, warriors were the only class capable of removing stances

Furthermore, warriors have 5 attribute lines and the only other class with 5 are elementalists purely because there are 4 elements and a primary is required.

Anet LOVE the warriors.

Feng Leung · Jun 26, 2006, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Anet LOVE the warriors.

Uh not exactly. If you think about it, they love mesmers, way more. There are numerous counters besides blind to warriors, mostly the numerous hexes and snares in the ele, necro, and mesmer lines.

On the idea of nerfing or leaving blinding flash, i say leave it alone, for the sole reason of it being perfectly balance, even with two attunements. Also, if it was so powerful, warriors couldn't kill anything, right?

jesh · Jun 28, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

And my monks are just fine, but they cant spare time to remove a condition every 4 seconds while they are trying to keep us alive. And Lady Lorwinia, I told you my point on Mend Ailment; its 5 seconds recharge, while flash is 4.

@ Talon
Martyr=Elite, 10 second Recharge
Draw Conditions=Nothing to say here, but not every monk skillbar has it
RC=Elite, prot boons need energy management.

Matyr = Kinda works on your entire team.
Draw Conditions = Your own ele carries this, and spams it.

Aren't you kind of self contradicting yourself?

Quote:

prot boons need energy management

Quote:

And my monks are just fine, but they cant spare time to remove a condition every 4 seconds while they are trying to keep us alive.

If you're using a boon protector, Mend Condition will actually give their healing power a boost. It's not like using the skill on a build with 0 protection.

If Blinding Flash is so awesomely powerful that it annhaliates your team, consider using plague touch, like BlueSS. Or Purge Conditons/Signet/ your own Mend Ailment.

Quote:

and they have amazing energy management, with air+ele attunement, blinding flash is nothing, and Ether Prodigy gives you amazing energy as well.

That "amazing energy" lets an ele do less damage than a warrior with *no* skills, which is why elementalists are reduced to using skills like Blinding Flash in the first place.

Quote:

Sure there are other methods, but Mend Ailment is the most convenient since its not an elite and you can use it on yourself.

Mend Condition has a shorter recharge. Use Contemplation of purity on your monk for self removal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d3kst3r

Eles are already the worst class in the game. Nerf blinding flash and they'll have nothing left (except maybe Lightning Surge + Lightning Orb).

Too predictable for PvP use most of the time, don't you think?

Quote:

In fact, up until Factions, warriors were the only class capable of removing stances

Rigor Mortis is a good replacment.

In conclusion.. I support the various elementalists who've posted their thoughts. If the skill needs to be touched at all, it should be after the entire class is revamped.

P.S. : What's RC stand for?

Renegade ++RIP++ · Jun 28, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

RC = restore conditions, elite version of mend condition

Kyle The Piemaster · Jun 29, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

me/mo
n/mo
e/mo

draw conditions

Xpl0iter · Jun 29, 2006, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Yesterday's news: ZOMG, I BLINDED A DUCK!UbeRPWNAGE!!
Todays's news: ZOMG, a TOUCH RANGER! WHERE IS THE FREAKIN COUNTER?????? It is under construction ( I HOPE ).
Read the damn ranger section, and check Touch ranger issue. a Blinding flash bugs you that much warrior? Try standing next to touch ranger, and tell me the chances of your survival.
Agreed with most of the people in that specific thread. That Touch stuff falls under NONE Of the attributes described under Expertise, i.e. Attack skills, preperations, and traps. It is just a freakin skill. Why?
How come stealing life, and adding it up ur bum makes it not a self healing tool? why does scourge healing doesn't affect it while that ranger is healing himself? how can he abuse that build so freely, and get away? Why do most of the people need atleast 2 or 3 people to mess with a Touch ranger, while most of the other professions can be handled by any specific profession?
Too many god damn questions, but hey, i forgot, this thread was about, Why the hell that ele blinds the duck so Quickly!! NERF IT!! Break that 3rd leg of that Blinding flash ele before he gets the warrior!

Saphatorael · Jul 07, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I don't know if this has been said yet... but your examples are horrible.
Distortion was used by trappers. That's right: R/Me
OoB was used alot more by monks than by Necro's. Used by a Mo/N Boonprot.
Gale? Warrior Spike! Hell Yeah! W/E Prof combo ftw!

Notice anything?
They were all used for secondaries. Blinding Flash is a nice skill and balanced: low recharge but high cost, meant for use with either dual attunements or ele's with high energy storage.

Even though i'm not that fond of Ele primaries (i've given it a try and found it pretty boring in PvE, and in PvP they seem to lack ... well... casting speed, you can see why i prefer fast cast Me/E), i must say, removing one of their key skills in PvP would mean their death. They've already been nerfed too much, i often outdamage them with that same Me/E build solely because i cast alot more and am alot less likely to be interrupted.

Conditions removal is a great counter, but someone shutting down the ele will also work; no need to complain about a skill, especially an ele one, nowadays:
IMHO Ele's have become underpowered a few nerfs ago, so don't take away one of the key roles they could still have (dependent on the team build) in any form in the game!

PS: also, i can't help the feeling you're the type that says 'OMG I CAN'T BEAT A CERTAIN BUILD NERF IT SO I CAN KILL EVERYTHING AGAIN'... That's not what GW's about. Alter your build so you CAN beat it, or get a good team supporting you.
It's a simple thing called balance, even though (i'll repeat it again) Ele's have are declining in strength and use with almost each 'balance' change.

Argen · Jul 07, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

I am using Resurrect Dead Thread!
Honestly, it doesn't need to be nerfed. Simple reason is the high cost, really only heavy energy build can spam it, and that limits it to spellcaster types at the very least. Without Elemental Attune + Attune, it becomes rather hard to keep spamming them.

Like Saph, I agree that you need to adapt your builds to overcome it or join with better groups.

runeseeker1 · Aug 03, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Wow Warchief Jonval u play magic huh? XD

i had that card... traded it away(now that i think about it i shouldnt have)

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Aug 03, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

i cant read every page of this thread, but i can already come up with my solution, you see when ever i gvg, i always played w/n, i bring along plague, heres the beautiful part, as soon as they blind me, i find their warrior, and use plague touch on them and then go back on the monk, doing this i can shut down their tanks or melee/rangers, and remove the condition while im at it, after a while throughout the gvg, they finaly get it that they are wasting energy using blinding flash and soon just stop doing it, but think about plague touch, its your friend, its like what comes aroudn goes aroudn, you can actualy hurt their effectivness if their retarded ele keeps blinding you, by blinding their warriors in return

KitsunE81 · Aug 10, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

Draw Conditions=Nothing to say here, but not every monk skillbar has it

Who said anything about Draw Conditions being on a Monk? Put it on a Monk secondary like Mesmers, Ele's or Necro's.

Or put Mesmers in your build with Diversion and ask them to Divert the Blinding Flash.

Xpl0iter · Aug 14, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

kindly dont use this thread any more? i dont see a point of this thread going on and on. It was dead for a month until someone sent a comment.

Epinephrine · Aug 17, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Blinding flash is not a problem skill. If anything, it's the energy source for it that is problematic. Ether Prodigy provides more energy than basically any other elite in game, is very limited in its disadvantages and strong in its advantages. Typically, non-elite energy management offers about a pip of energy; elite energy management typically around 3 pips

e.g.
Elemental attunement:

Long recharge (sucks if removed), offers 2 energy back on 5 cost, 5 back on 10 cost, 7 back on 15 cost and 12 back on 25 cost skills. With the cost to use it being about .66 pips it leaves 3.33 pips to cast with, if you use only 10 cost spells it thus doubled your energy availability, giving 3.33 extra pips of spells (specific to elemental spells)

Glyph of Energy: 15 net energy per 15 seconds is 3 pips

Mantra of Recall: 16 inspiration gives ~3 pips of energy

Energy Drain: maxed can give 15 energy per 25 seconds, but costs up to 10 from your enemy, for a total energy differential of 25 every 25 seconds, or 3 pips.

Offering of Blood: 16 blood gives 16 net energy every 15 seconds, for ~3 pips

Ether Prodigy: Used cautiously (every 30 seconds, to not get hit with exhaustion build-up) can provide 24+ seconds of gain, adding 43+ net energy per 30 seconds, or 4.3 pips; can be used back-to back allowing some exhaustion buildup to allow for as much as 6 pips continuously for periods, provided breaks are given to make up the exhaustion, thus 40+% more effective than other elite sources of energy. 5 second recharge ensures that you can use it even if it's removed.

yesitsrob · Aug 17, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Blinding flash is expensive, I really think that justifies it's good recharge and reasonable duration, and you are using an elite skill to give it it's spammability.

And the counters to it are generally useful skills that are extremely common to take anyway and very practical. Draw Conditions mainly, no a monk can't keep up with a 4 second recharge blind, and on that note it's not their main priority when you have draw in the build, and if you have adapted to the gvg metagame any time in the past 3 seasons you will have draw

some guy · Aug 21, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Plague Touch FTW!!!

Tainek · Aug 22, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

My point is that skils and items being nerft on US and EU servers are not nesseserily nerft on Korean and Taiwan servers, so we should be careful about asking for nerfs if we want to be competitiv in PvP and GvG against Koreans and (yes now) Japan as well

Nerfs are worldwide, period