Curse

Viruzzz · Apr 21, 2006, 07:13 AM // 07:13

remove their atunements with enchantment removal.. bubye blind?

Mental Leteci · Apr 21, 2006, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luddendorf

Let's see: Eles are arguably the worst class along with necros. Monks, Warriors, and Mesmers are easily the top 3 and Rangers have a niche role too. Necros and eles have their points but they are nowhere near as important or commonplace as the 3 main classes. Saying there is no good/bad class is sheer stupidity and I hope it would be self-evident why.

Ok,either you just started to play this game or you just don't understand it. When this game was released even 2 months after no one wanted a mesmer in their groups because everyone was saying mesmer is the worst class there is. Look at them now. Now,look at that guy who said about 20 good things about ele. I mean,if ele is bad what should you say about the ranger? All he can do is spread poison,run,interrupt and what? Trap? ...
Look,ele is an awesome class and I'm not talking about air ele... I'm talking about any ele.

JR · Apr 21, 2006, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Ok,either you just started to play this game or you just don't understand it. When this game was released even 2 months after no one wanted a mesmer in their groups because everyone was saying mesmer is the worst class there is. Look at them now. Now,look at that guy who said about 20 good things about ele. I mean,if ele is bad what should you say about the ranger? All he can do is spread poison,run,interrupt and what? Trap? ...
Look,ele is an awesome class and I'm not talking about air ele... I'm talking about any ele.

Actually Luddendorf was right on the money, in the context of the current PvP environment.

Watch more observer mode in my opinion.

selber · Apr 21, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Look,ele is an awesome class and I'm not talking about air ele... I'm talking about any ele.

That's not true. In fact - if there wasnt EP and Healparty I doubt if we would see Eles in High-End-GvG at all.

JR · Apr 21, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by selber

That's not true. In fact - if there wasnt EP and Healparty I doubt if we would see Eles in High-End-GvG at all.

Aside from certain forms of spike, of course.

makosi · Apr 21, 2006, 12:10 PM // 12:10

[QUOTE=Stockholm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I've maintained the idea (controversially - don't flame me) that this game was built around the warrior
QUOTE]

Wrong
This game was built around the concept of each class complementing each other and and all missions can be played without a warrior so thats not true.

And stop nerfing skills just because they bug you in PvP Or GVG, just found out that an item that was nerft on the US and EU servers is still availeble on the korean server so good luck in PvP or GvG if you get all your nerfs.

You obviously haven't seen the video of the group of 6 warriors and 2 monks clearing Sorrow's Furnace. And you might not have noticed a little build called IWAY either that only dominated HA for what..... 3 months minimum?. The game was built for the warrior and casters get nerfed... warriors continue to hack n slash and there's not much to counter them.

Mental Leteci · Apr 21, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Ok wait. I noticed a lot of people here think ele shoudl be used just to spam blinding flash and windborne/heal party etc. It's totally wrong. 1st of all who said it needs to be an air ele? Just because other people play it,doesn't mean you have to. Observe mode is the worse thing that could happen to new players. They only play what they see there. You should try it yourself.

rii · Apr 21, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Warriors were not implemented as the end all of the game, they were implemented as a concept just as elementalists were. It just turns out they are better than elementalists for various purposes and for various reasons.

Quote:

theres not much to counter them

Thats the stupidest thing I've heard all week.

As for casters being nerfed... well they were. If by 'casters' you meant things like chain lightening among others, yes they were nerfed. Thats because 5 eles casting a chain with a large aoe that could easily kill three/four people was retarded.

The problem with eles is they arent designed for DPM... when you give all the lines an elite that deals 100 damage but once every 20 seconds its clear your not designing them to put out damage over the course of a minute (with elemental skills at least). What they are good at is spiking people down. The only problem with such a transparant tactic.. is either
a) the spike is deadly, spammable, and precise - when it is it will be considered imba.
b) the spike either isnt deadly, has a long recharge, takes a while (1-2s) to pump out, or has some other mitigating factor - in this situation, its not worth running spike against a decent team since they will just do x y z and you loose.

After that, there are basic considerations like split tactics etc... but as a simple black and white interpretation it more or less works.

As for warriors.. high armour and strong self healing capabilities combined with almost imba ias to adrenal spike... serve a much greater role than eles do in offense. Its just a plain fact that unless the spike is absolutely tight (see above) DPM is the much stronger option.

jackie · Apr 21, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

[QUOTE=makosi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

You obviously haven't seen the video of the group of 6 warriors and 2 monks clearing Sorrow's Furnace. And you might not have noticed a little build called IWAY either that only dominated HA for what..... 3 months minimum?. The game was built for the warrior and casters get nerfed... warriors continue to hack n slash and there's not much to counter them.

I guess you haven't heard All-Mesmer / Ranger Events.
8 Mesmers Clearing UW / FoW / Sorrows / Tombs.

And for the domination of HA, mmm if you look what builds hold you might notice they aren't iway...IWAY is there just because it is easiest build to form.

Warriors get much attention because they are the most popular class. Easy & simple to play.

I disagree with everyone saying some profession is more effective or more important than other. That is just plain stupidity. Every prof plays vital role.

Stockholm · Apr 21, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Thank You jackie,
thats what I was trying to say. by the way thats not a quote from me.

makosi · Apr 21, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

There isn't much to counter warriors - especially in pvp. "Thats the stupidest thing I've heard all week" is a glib remark and you didn't justify yourself. What I meant was, there are very few ways to prevent yourself from being damaged by a warrior if you're a caster keeping in mind that your armour IS weaker. Casters need their self healing, ressurection skills and energy management and blinding flash is inefficient in itself because of the zero dmg and 15 energy cost. That doesn't leave many skill bars open for damage. Sure, you can bring wards - even more energy and even less damage on your skill bar. My point is, casters (like eles) can are useless against hammer warriors (for example) unless they take the defensive approach which leaves little room for damage. When you do try to deal damage, you can be knocked to the ground for up to 4 seconds and take a beating with your teeth in the mud.

A few examples of anti-warrior skills:

Signet of Midnight: Good duration, good recharge, seen by many people as a waste of an elite.
Faintheartedness/Shadow of Fear: Works well but it doesn't change the fact that they will cause all sorts of conditions and still deal damage.
Spirit Shackles, Spirit of Failure, Price of faliure - 3 seconds cast time...

rii · Apr 21, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

If you honestly want to shutdown warriors... make a hexer, and pick up any 5 of the amazing hexes availiabale for raping warriors. Combo in some degen for when there arent enough warriors around... then get a flash turret on top of that.
As a quick example:

Spiteful Spirit [e]
Spirit of Failure
Price of Failure
Soothing Images
Drain Enchantment
Faintheartedness
Parasitic Bond
Resurrection Signet

A little overkill.... but that kind of build leaves warriors in the dust... the only reason people dont do it is its an entire character. Degen teams have it easy and duel flash in the current standard build is usually enough. Your not going to stop them killing you... thats naive. You just have to bring their damage below a critical level so your monks dont get basically overloaded.

Tark Alkerk · Apr 22, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Blinding flash doesn't need a nerf
it can be removed by a good monk o so quickly, and to be able to "spam it" u need to take at least 1 other skill or even 2

makosi · Apr 22, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

If you honestly want to shutdown warriors... make a hexer, and pick up any 5 of the amazing hexes availiabale for raping warriors. Combo in some degen for when there arent enough warriors around... then get a flash turret on top of that.
As a quick example:

Spiteful Spirit [e]
Spirit of Failure
Price of Failure
Soothing Images
Drain Enchantment
Faintheartedness
Parasitic Bond
Resurrection Signet

A little overkill.... but that kind of build leaves warriors in the dust... the only reason people dont do it is its an entire character. Degen teams have it easy and duel flash in the current standard build is usually enough. Your not going to stop them killing you... thats naive. You just have to bring their damage below a critical level so your monks dont get basically overloaded.

Cheers, i'll give it a go.

sabzero · Apr 22, 2006, 11:57 AM // 11:57

if conditions annoy you, choose necro as a 2nd prof and use plague touch.

blinding flash = change target to an enemy warrior/ranger or anything close, plague touch it then ur set.

thats normally what i do. or just hack away and hope you get lucky with that 10% hit chance.

Xpl0iter · Apr 23, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

I would totally disagree. If you think so you're not using it right.
There is no worst/best class in this game. Every class is good.

Seems like you just purchased this game for saying something so awkward. I suggest you read forums over ele debates before saying that.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

RotteN · Apr 23, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

blinding flash doesn't need a nerf, it's a condition, there are billions of ways to get rid of those ... and even with all the blinding flash spam/blurred vision/shadow of fear/faintheartedness/.... (insert all the other warrior hate here), warriors are still able to kill, so it's not overpowered either ...

and to Xpl0iter : if you think ele's are the worst class in the game, why are you still playing one ?

makosi · Apr 23, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

blinding flash doesn't need a nerf, it's a condition, there are billions of ways to get rid of those ... and even with all the blinding flash spam/blurred vision/shadow of fear/faintheartedness/.... (insert all the other warrior hate here), warriors are still able to kill, so it's not overpowered either ...

and to Xpl0iter : if you think ele's are the worst class in the game, why are you still playing one ?

"warriors are still able to kill,"

Yes.

Str0b0 · Apr 23, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

no other profession can shut down a war or ranger as fast as ele currently.

One word for you. WRONG! Spiteful Spirit, Spirit of Failure, Clumsiness. If you keep on attacking through those then you're dead. Ele's can shut down warriors and rangers but honestly necros and mesmers are far more proficient at it. It's the good old, stab yourself in the face tactic. In fact I'd hate to see the damage spike that those three skills working in concert and firing off all at once would cause to a single character. The bad thing is that a N/Me could keep all of those on you more or less indefinately with a modicum of effort. These skills are nice in PvE for damage, especially SS, but in PvP they function as shut downs unless your target is a complete moron.

Frost_ · Apr 24, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

I don't want this thread to sound like im whining, but ive had enough of ele's just spamming blinding flash. They can consistently keep on atleast 2 targets, this is why i feel it is overpowered. Gale was a great skills for warriors to use, every w/e used it; It got a nerf. Crippling shot was a great skill for rangers to use in GvG and the like, they could spam it on an entire team;it got nerfed. Every single air ele has blinding flash, i think it deserves a nerf. Something as simple as a 2 second casting time, or a longer recharge time. I am fed up with Air Ele's just spamming this. Other usefull skills got nerfed as well, Distortion, Offering of Blood. All these skills dealt with spamming.

Blinding flash is another one that i think should be added to these "spammable nerfs". Please A-net, nerf it now!

blinding flash - 15 energy

martyr/restore/mend ail/mend condition - 5 energy

call for a monk to remove

the end

oh and a lot of warriros use plauge touch and stuff like that so you can just give it back

and the only time i think theve nerfed something because it was spammable was because emos would put up zealouts fire and then just spam draw conditions with ether renewal(or some other ele elite i dont remember)