Curse

thor hammerbane · Mar 28, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Well, i guess i'm the only one with a problem. Maybe its my one-sided view, so i guess im wrong. Please dont say im whining or crying-I just said im wrong. It comes down to point of view; there is no real way to prove if it is overpowered or not, just opinions. I'll have my fingers crossed so a-net will feel my point of view, but if not, i'll just try to adjust my builds.

I don't mind being wrong, just dont flame me because i have an opinion. I'm done here.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Mar 28, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Because you people seem to have just posted just to flame and have very little to no logic in your points, let me quote Unienaule's post again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Wow, there is so much bad logic in here, it's amazing.

1) Just because it's the "only thing" eles can do is NOT a good reason for not nerfing it. If their only skill was an insta-death one man spike, it would need to be nerfed. A class's usefulness doesn't play into the debate of one skill.

2) Skills aren't overpowered because everyone uses them. Just because everyone takes res signet, does that mean it should be nerfed? No.

3) If AoE is bad, then buff AoE. If blinding flash is truly overpowered, it makes sense to tone it down a bit and then make AoE and damage a bit better, instead of leave blinding flash in because "i wnt to pwn wars."

Debate a skill based off of itself, not other skills that don't affect it in any way. Energy management skills, yes, AoE spells, no.

All I've seen so far are people flaming and yelling about Elementalists being bad so "logically" the skill isnt overpowered. I don't think it should be toned down at this point yet either but at least I know it's too spammable (And it is! Dont kid yourself)

And people saying that Blinding Flash is a waste of energy because the condition is easily removed? Bullcrap. It's still used very effectively in top tier Guild Battles as an anti warrior skill. Sure it gets removed eventually but it messes with both Warrior and Ranger spikes where timing is crucial. That few seconds of blind can really help. And with Air Attunement (who doesnt use this when using Air?) it's not as expensive as you think and can be spammed quite often. Energy is no issue to an Elementalist.

Again, I dont think it should be touched at this point because I do think Elementalists need some help. But stop kidding yourself people.

Cartoonhero · Mar 28, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

All I've seen so far are people flaming and yelling about Elementalists being bad so "logically" the skill isnt overpowered. I don't think it should be toned down at this point yet either but at least I know it's too spammable (And it is! Dont kid yourself)

And people saying that Blinding Flash is a waste of energy because the condition is easily removed? Bullcrap. It's still used very effectively in top tier Guild Battles as an anti warrior skill. Sure it gets removed eventually but it messes with both Warrior and Ranger spikes where timing is crucial. That few seconds of blind can really help. And with Air Attunement (who doesnt use this when using Air?) it's not as expensive as you think and can be spammed quite often. Energy is no issue to an Elementalist.

Again, I dont think it should be touched at this point because I do think Elementalists need some help. But stop kidding yourself people.

air attunment...yeah. so it can get shattered and make more work for my monk. yeah. attunments are not as usuful in the upper guild battles with the mass enchant shatters and removals going around. and all this talk of dual attunment..lets see. 2 attunments for maxiumum energy managment. and a res sig. that leaves me 5 slots to be usuful. no thanks.

HAHA. energy is no issue to an elementalist. funny. energy storage is one of the less useful primary atts. sure we get more energy, but our skills cost more usually,and theres that whole exhaustion thing on several of our skills. so. you see my point?

im not whining or complaining. im just saying that people give eles crap all the time. yes we've been nerfed in pve massivly, but hey. i still annoy the crap out of warriors and rangers(like you say), in the same way a mesmer annoys the crap out of a monk or other caster in pvp. i dont see the reason for a nerf..so i agree with you there.

"spammable"...right. i cant spam it if i run out of energy after casting it like 4 times. and its not like thats the only spell im casting either. i 'd like to meet these blinding flash spammers, and smack them upside the head...what the hell are you thinking?!? you have other things to do im sure..you do use all 8 skill slots right?....anyhow. i'll stop before i get mean.

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 28, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Blinding flash is an on-the-edge skill in my opinion.

In GvG, it is nicely balanced by others.
In Random Arena, it is vastly unstoppable because no one is ready for such situation. Until one meet a team who drop you regardless.
In AB (Alliance Battle), it can help, but stopping warrior or ranger isn't the main point.
In CM (Competitive Mission), it can become very powerful, like the random Arena.

All in all, it is whether one is prepare for it or not. But considering that it is one skill that everyone have to look out for, that alone can tell how powerful it actually is. While it is scary, it is not as scary as most thought, as it require heavy energy management. In the end, it is really not blinding flash you are fighting against, but their energy management you are battling.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Mar 28, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cartoonhero

HAHA. energy is no issue to an elementalist. funny. energy storage is one of the less useful primary atts. sure we get more energy, but our skills cost more usually,and theres that whole exhaustion thing on several of our skills. so. you see my point?
anyhow. i'll stop before i get mean.

Yeah. I'll just ignore the hostile tone of your post. I'll never understand why people cant discuss things without taking it personally...especially when I've made sure to look at things from your point of view and specifically made sure to state that I dont think it should be nerfed...for now.

I'm just going to address one point of yours because I just dont care anymore at this point since you're just borderline flaming. The point was about the no energy issue to an elementalist. I meant to say the energy cost of Blinding Flash isnt really much of an issue. Especially with the cost toned down with air attunement. And forget about enchantment removal. By your logic then every enchantment is useless.

Anyway, reply if you wish. And roll your eyes all you want. You're clearly not here to discuss anything rationally but far too emotional and far too defensive. Good luck with that.

Francis Crawford · Mar 29, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Energy is no issue to an Elementalist.

Definitely overstated ...

As for your claim that Air Attunement makes Blinding Flash cheap -- with just Air Attunement up, that's 11 energy points for a condition that can be removed by spending 5.

And if Elemental Attunement is used too -- well, one enchantment strip per minute can disable your elite spell completely. That's a little more painful than other enchantment stripping issues.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Mar 29, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

I've already said that I overstated that comment and it wasnt what I meant. Bad choice of words.

And we can throw out counters until we're blue in the face. If things arent overpowered because there's a counter somewhere then nothing would have been nerfed. Again, I'll bring up Crippling Shot. It also inflicted a condition that theoretically can be easily removed by a Mend Ailment. So why was it nerfed? Because it was too easily spammed.

Anyway I'm done. Again, I dont think it's a skill that's a huge problem but I do think should be looked at later once the Elementalist is fixed somehow.

And mostly I posted because of the number of illogical flaming posts in here. The OP asked for opinions but got for the most part nothing but "stop whining posts"

thor hammerbane · Mar 29, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Anyway I'm done. Again, I dont think it's a skill that's a huge problem but I do think should be looked at later once the Elementalist is fixed somehow.

Pretty much the same note i ended on. It seems that one can't start a little debate about a skill and if its overpowered or not; without being bombarded with flaming turds by ignorant bystanders.

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 29, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

Pretty much the same note i ended on. It seems that one can't start a little debate about a skill and if its overpowered or not; without being bombarded with flaming turds by ignorant bystanders.

You are not alone

I learned that 3-4 months back. It was quite ridiculous.

LightningHell · Mar 29, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

I really hope I didn't flame too much.

JR · Mar 29, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

I've already said that I overstated that comment and it wasnt what I meant. Bad choice of words.

And we can throw out counters until we're blue in the face. If things arent overpowered because there's a counter somewhere then nothing would have been nerfed.

And if they nerfed everything that a few people shouted about, we would be playing Guild Wars with rubber swords and fairy dust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Again, I'll bring up Crippling Shot. It also inflicted a condition that theoretically can be easily removed by a Mend Ailment.

Cripple that would be instantly covered with poison, if you used Apply. Not to mention it would cut straight through blocks/evades. It was also highly spammable, and relatively cheap. Oh and the animation looked cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

So why was it nerfed? Because it was too easily spammed.

That was *one* of the reasons. See above.

Blinding Flash is expensive, it inflicts a condition that cannot be instantly covered. It is not quite as spammable as the old Crippling Shot in terms of recycle. It is limited to casting range. Crip-Shot was effective on both casters and physical damage classes, Blinding Flash is only effective on physical damage classes... I could probably think up a few more reasons why Crip-Shot was so much more imbalanced than Blinding Flash.

The Real Roy Keane · Mar 29, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

I think the OP was treated very unfairly overall. He brought up a point he thought was reasonable, and while it may have been a litttle illogical, it was a far cry from the usual '0mg i di3d nurf X plzz' threads about 'unbalanced' skills.
He did not deserve the flaming he received, half of which were about his choice of secondary profession.

BlueSS · Mar 29, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

conditions have never been a problem to my W/N plague touch warrior.

qwe4rty · Mar 29, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

By your logic then every enchantment is useless.

Don't forget to keep in mind that Attunements have about a 60 Second recharge.

The Ranger Primary attribute essentially does for the Ranger what Dual Attunements do for Elementalists. Except, its better in that no skill spots are needed, and you don't need the FULL cost, (IE you dont need to have 25 energy to use concussion shot while you would need 25 energy to use Meteor Shower).

Energy Storage is not that good.

Francis Crawford · Mar 29, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

The original poster ended his post with "nerf this skill now!"

Then he complained that the followup discussion wasn't elegantly restrained.

::shrugs::

Divineshadows · Mar 29, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

I just dont think its fair...every other class gets their fav skill nerfed, and the ele's get to keep theirs? And my monks are just fine, but they cant spare time to remove a condition every 4 seconds while they are trying to keep us alive. And Lady Lorwinia, I told you my point on Mend Ailment; its 5 seconds recharge, while flash is 4.

BTW,OoB was the choice of E-Management of almost all monks, so thats why it got nerfed, so it wasn't being spammed persay, but close to it.

@ Talon
Martyr=Elite, 10 second Recharge
Draw Conditions=Nothing to say here, but not every monk skillbar has it
RC=Elite, prot boons need energy management.

Blinding flash does not need to be altered. The cast time, the energy cost, and the recharge are all in line. Increasing the recharge would make an air elementalist inferior to the curse necro in GvG. For a hex heavy build, I would still choose a curse necro over the air ele anyway. It sounds like your guild is having at least one of the following issues:

1. Loading all condition and hex removal onto your monks. Doing so creates critical points of failure in your build, especially given that monks are the favorite target of energy denial. Remedies include having martyr or draw conditions on a monk secondary and/or having plauge touch or contemplation of purity on your warriors. You'll argue that the character has to give up an "offensive skill" and would hurt your build, but trust me having such utility really makes things run much smoother.
2. Having several copies of mend ailment with very few other condition removals. Conditions are easily reapplied and hence something more powerful like martyr, draw conditions, or mend condition is really needed to deal with condition heavy builds.
3. Bad communication on the blind condition.
4. Warriors overextending too often out of condition removal range.
5. Monks (or monk secondaries) that do not recognize the very distinct sound of blinding flash and therefore fail to remove the condition before the cover condition lands leaving your warriors screaming for condition removal.

Huntmaster · Mar 29, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

Eles may drop out of the GvG scene altogether.

Why not, it happened to rangers..

Mayar third Keeper · Mar 29, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Uhm nerf Warriors so there is no more need to blind every single one the hole battle -> problem solved

Faer · Mar 29, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

Well i guess im the only one with a problem with it, by nerf i dont mean anything collosal, something as simple as a slightly higher recharge and it would be fixed. The 15 energy isnt a huge deal for eles. You forget that they have the most energy in the game, and they have amazing energy management, with air+ele attunement, blinding flash is nothing, and Ether Prodigy gives you amazing energy as well.

Ether Prodigy gives you exhaustion. Ether Prodigy takes a bite out of your health when it ends. Relying on Ether Prodigy is like relying on a parachute made of steel.

Energy Storage? Have you ever played a bloody Elementalist before? I don't even put anything into Energy Storage except my extra points (which are few and far between). I actually like my skills to have some kind of effect, thanks, and when I slam all my points into E.S. rather than Air/Fire/Earth/Water, they become more than slightly less effective.

As to the attunements, oh great and powerful Warrior, I believe if you saw my skillbar you'd notice a lack of them. Calling me a noob wont help... I like to keep my skillbar full of hard-hitting keep 'em downs, and some nice wards for good measure.

And yes. I love Blinding Flash. But do you want to know something? It's a hell of a lot harder to keep it on a foe than you know. If you are always blinded by it, then I'd suggest you find a better monk, or start doing your own job better.

thor hammerbane · Mar 30, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Wow..i already said my point, that maybe im wrong...jeez...you need to read. 3 pages might be more than hillbillies like you ever read, but suck it up and read EVERYTHING before you say anything.

And yes, ive played an ele. And its very easy to spam blinding flash,and if its hard for you, "then i'd suggest you start doing or own job better".