Curse

Skuld · Mar 28, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Easy to remove, not spammable, high cost, if anything it needs to be 5 energy

Stop the cry nerf please.

thor hammerbane · Mar 28, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Well i guess im the only one with a problem with it, by nerf i dont mean anything collosal, something as simple as a slightly higher recharge and it would be fixed. The 15 energy isnt a huge deal for eles. You forget that they have the most energy in the game, and they have amazing energy management, with air+ele attunement, blinding flash is nothing, and Ether Prodigy gives you amazing energy as well.

OoB, Gale, Crippling shot...they were all good skills, slightly overpowered, and still got a nerf. Blinding flash, slightly overpowered; why does it not deserve a nerf?

BTW::Im talking in PvP context; AoE being nerfed doesnt affect PvP. Before and after the update, if a fire ele cast met shower on my warrior, i still ran from it.

And also, because my first character was a W/Mo doesn't mean i don't know what im talking about. As soon as i beat the game, i changed my secondary. I am not the W/Mo sword warrior you see in PvP. I simply used a W/Mo for doing missions and farming in PvE when i was still unexperienced.

This is the info i have so far from this thread, and from other people ive talked to.

For the Nerf:
-Can be consistently put on atleast 2 warriors because of the recharge.
-Mend Ailment, the main condition removal, got a nerf, so it is not 5 second recharge. That means an ele can blind faster than it could be removed. Sure there are other methods, but Mend Ailment is the most convenient since its not an elite and you can use it on yourself.
-Eles have the most energy and the best e-management, so the 15 energy is nothing to complain about.

Against the Nerf:
-Blinding Flash is Enough energy all ready
-If it gets nerfed, Ele's will drop from GvG
-Only thing between an ele and a warrior or a ranger
-Enough condition removal as it is.

Please don't think im an ignorant warrior. I too play ele builds, and i have had PvE ele's. I don't want the skill to be butchered, but something as simple as a few more seconds of recharge would fix it right up. Crippling shot, got a tiny nerf of 5 energy, and it basically stopped the massive spamming. This is the same thing i want to see.

EDIT::And to all you people who can't read, i am not crying or whining...i already posted that. I noticed a skill that i thought was overpowered and just said my views on it.

Empirism · Mar 28, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

ill think blinding flash is balanced its current state, considering for assassins maybe in factions, their temple strike must be countered or ritualists have a shadowsong and there are many other blinding skills too, that its 15 energy is countered by spirit of failure ofcourse and its good energy battery, but still i think its quite balanced. just my two cents

frickett · Mar 28, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Why nerf it, Eles already have an almost useless aoe issue, they need to have something that is useful to bring balance.

thor hammerbane · Mar 28, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickett

Why nerf it, Eles already have an almost useless aoe issue, they need to have something that is useful to bring balance.

If you didn't read my above post, the AoE nerf did not affect the PvP ele situation. Before and After the update, if somebody cast an AoE spell, people still ran. Like i said before, Blinding Flashed is being spammed in PvP, not in PvE. The AoE nerf affected PvE.

unienaule · Mar 28, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Wow, there is so much bad logic in here, it's amazing.

1) Just because it's the "only thing" eles can do is NOT a good reason for not nerfing it. If their only skill was an insta-death one man spike, it would need to be nerfed. A class's usefulness doesn't play into the debate of one skill.

2) Skills aren't overpowered because everyone uses them. Just because everyone takes res signet, does that mean it should be nerfed? No.

3) If AoE is bad, then buff AoE. If blinding flash is truly overpowered, it makes sense to tone it down a bit and then make AoE and damage a bit better, instead of leave blinding flash in because "i wnt to pwn wars."

Debate a skill based off of itself, not other skills that don't affect it in any way. Energy management skills, yes, AoE spells, no.

Corinthian · Mar 28, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Just another angry warrior who lost all their adrenaline because of a well timed Blinding Flash. You thought you had the ele, didn't you? You thought he was going down?

thor hammerbane · Mar 28, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian

Just another angry warrior who lost all their adrenaline because of a well timed Blinding Flash. You thought you had the ele, didn't you? You thought he was going down?

You Illiterate Swine. I do not only play a WARRIOR. I already said that. I think it is a good skill, but from what i have observed, all skills that were used in this amount and were this successfull got a small nerf. So i guess your the angry caster who got knocked down by gale and got chopped to death?

I did not come here to beg for a nerf. I wanted to start an educated discussion/debate on this topic. But instead i am getting flamed for crying/whining, and being a warrior.

Empirism · Mar 28, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

"I did not come here to beg for a nerf. I wanted to start an educated discussion/debate on this topic. But instead i am getting flamed for crying/whining, and being a warrior."

ignore flamers, theyve probably not read all the posts.

RotteN · Mar 28, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

blinding flash is a joke, rarely hurts warriors when you have an ok amount of condition removal. imo the buff of Shadow of Fear hurts a lot more, playing against a pressure build that uses both shadow of fear and faintheartedness is any hammer warrior's nightmare (i know i cursed a lot on vent last time i got hex stacked like that, we won, but it was annoying as hell).

if an opposing ele wants to invest most/all of his nrg in blinding flash, than that's good news for you, cause he won't be doin anythin else

NatalieD · Mar 28, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

-Eles have the most energy and the best e-management, so the 15 energy is nothing to complain about.

Eles only have the best energy if they take Ether Prodigy. Energy Storage is unhelpful on its own, and dual attunements rarely work if your opponents are much good.

Ether Prodigy lets you spam Blinding Flash as fast as it cycles, sure - but it'll cost you 9/10 of your energy regen even while Prodigized. For Blinding Flash to be used the way you complain about takes two skills, one of them elite, plus exhaustion and the frequent loss of all other enchantments. And some self-damage just for fun. I'd hate to see what you think of as a fair cost for blind-spam.

Corinthian · Mar 28, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Hahahaha, I'm just teasing you.

Anyone can see that the skill is not unbalanced. You don't need to start debates over something so obvious. Huge energy cost, easy to remove, hard to spam without throwing character functionality out of the window. Let's talk about the REAL blind turret: Shadowsong.

Lady Lorwinia · Mar 28, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Yeah shadow of fear really hurts my ranger.

Too bad almost no necros use it. HAW HAW.

But if Shadow of Fear was as big as SS right now. It would be horrible. Thank god it's not.

Hoyt · Mar 28, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

No profession in a game should be omnipotent, thusly, in the name of fairness and balance, for every skill there is a counter.
This is part good design and how balance is ensured.
Over time it is often discovered that this balance is skewed in favor of one professional build or skill set. When this exploitable oversight is discovered, it is the responsibility of the developers to rework the “overpowered” skill or situation.
This being said, it is important to be able to discern between those things that give an unfair advantage to one build and those things that are consciously geared towards balanced play.

And now with the OP’s having made the situation much more widely known, we can all expect a lot more people that hadn’t thought to use the skill in the manner described to start doing so. This should provide enough data for aNet to decide whether or not it indeed needs reworking.

It'll be interesting to see what comes of it.
Time will tell.

*babble babble babble*

Mister Muhkuh · Mar 28, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

as all posters said:

its already "nerfed"

15 energy, not spammable, easy to remove...

and leave some good skills to the elementalists...
they have less armor to deal some more damage(which they dont do)

give them a chance

Darkpower Alchemist · Mar 28, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

This is an obvious one sided situation. The populous just doesn't agree with you,for various reasons. Stop beating the dead horse.It's dead. A W/Mo has no excuse for not being able to get rid of Blinding Flash(for obvious reasons),plus the monks on your team should be prepared for this situation by now.However,the nerf situation is just ridiculous when the skill costs so much to cast. 4 Blinding Flashes later,and the ele has spent 60 energy points/mana just to stay alive.
How about coming up with a better strategy to prevent the casting from occuring? Your build should have something for such an obviously overly used spell. You may not have 5 sword/axe/hammer attack skills anymore,but you can at least continue to deal dmg without suffering from blindness.Circumvent the spell's usefulness on an individual level and you have no need for a nerf thread,my friend.8 slots may not seem like enough at the moment,but it's all you have. Create your builds in order to minimize the chance of long condition stints,while maximizing the dmg output of your chosen attacks.All should know this,but no one has mentioned it. Talk with the designated monks and discuss popular situations that occur during PvP/GvG battles.Communicate with your teammates.Nerfing stuff is not an answer,but the result of abuses of oversite.Gale,Crippling Shot,and AoE in general were all nerfed for various abuses of oversites. I don't particularly agree with the Gale nerf,but it was being abused,so it got what the masses screamed for.IWAY wasn't nerfed because individually,it's not threatening.It's the group scenario that makes it dangerous.Now,ward magic stops the IWAY scenario quite well.The masses adapted to IWAY,even though most screamed for a nerf.Blinding Flash is like Rangers Throwing dirt,it does no real harm,but it makes you miss. Just prepare for the Blinding Flash,because you know it's coming.Don't let individual frustration make an individaul opinion turn into an intercommunity incident. Blinding Flash is an nuisance,and nothing more than that.

Wretchman Drake · Mar 28, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Ele's dont suck I know someone that plays a good Fire Ele and he can take out Warriors quick by lighting them up.

My Blood/Warder Ele can do great in PvE with Eruption, Ward Against Melee, and Well of Blood. You people must be used to the ele's using Lava Font and Firestorm... That would be the Mage Henchmen who now sucks even more.

Cartoonhero · Mar 28, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

wow. totally not overpowerd. i play an air/warder ele in pvp, in fact its the main pvp class i play. and im telling you, that spell wastes my energy faster than i can regain it, even with ether prodigy. and good monks with condition removal can make it all but useless. not to mention that ether prodigy could possibly kill me, who knows i could be getting spiked or running away when it wears off, and BOOM, dead ele.(and i cant exactly spam it either, exhaustion would make me usless). i also carry a 10e ward and a 15e heal party. i cant do all of it at once. the only time i really use a blinding flash is if warriors(especially hammer ones), are pounding on my monks. the ward is just much more efficient, unless the other team is using AoE fire nukers or something, in which case clumping is bad....anyhow, i ramble. You say you play eles, but honestly. blinding flash is mostly a waste of energy to me. i always see that stupid blue ring from mend ailment right after i cast it(if the monk line is any good), and then, i have to cast it again if i really want to try and blind them, and wow...30 energy gone right there....2 heal parties. its already sad enough how low on the list eles are for pvp teams. im just lucky enough that my guild leader thinks im necessary.

edit: also, my ele with having at least 8 in healing prayers to make heal party useful, and 16 in air, and aroud 7 in earth for a ward, doesnt exactly have alot of att pts to waste on energy. i have 69 energy with an insighful pvp air staff. so...blinding flash can burn through that extremley quickly.

qwe4rty · Mar 28, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

I would understand if ele's didn't have huge energy, but they do. Their primary attribute is energy storage. They have huge energy. And when they use this skill, they use ele+air attunement or ether prodigy;they have energy management. A simple nerf, such as longer recharge, would fix this skill right up. no other profession can shut down a war or ranger as fast as ele currently. Mend ailment is now 5 second recharge, the monk can't even keep up with it.

Big BS imo.

There was a big discussion on this in the Riverside Inn, "Elementalist Primary Discussion." It may be several pages back, but its got a lot of replies.

Energy Storage really isn't that great. All it really does is buffer exhaustion.

Attunements really aren't that great energy management as they have 60 second cooldowns, and are easy to remove.

Francis Crawford · Mar 28, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

IF an elementalist runs dual attunements, and the opposing team doesn't have enchantment removal, then Blinding Flash -- costing only 4 net energy -- is a great skill. 4 energy to cause a problem; 5 energy to solve it; that's a winner.

Stop whining.