Curse

Effendi Westland · Nov 29, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

This thread basically names all the reasons I don't take PuG monks.

Monk is a very difficult profession to play. Unfortunately also one of the more popular. It is not for me, I tried it, got 1.5 mill xp on my monk and I discovered that the red bar watch isn't for me. But I do know how to monk.

So I was going to do Thirsty River with a PuG, he was complaining in all chat about the lack of PuGs. I responded that I was just going to hench it, and if he were to try that he'll probably survive as he was an elementalist. He was polite and asked some questions so I decided to team up with him and show him the ropes. He didn't have the right skillbar (flare, firestorm), but didn't complain as I suggested a better one (even helped him zone to outposts and walk to the Ascalon settlement for missing skills). He says he knows a excellent monk who can help, so we wait for the monk to come.

This is not one of those OMG I met the worse monk ever stories, in fact the monk was quite decent and a nice player, obviously for helping out, but....

After 10 seconds of fighting her energy would be non-existant. Which I found very odd, as I was a Paragon giving everyone +44 armor level AND using mending refrain AND had Tahlorka as a prot hero AND never had any troubles solo RT healing this a few weeks ago.

Above is an issue alot of monks deal with, but just don't know it. In pve, when in a fight, having all above 80% health is usually good for you to catch any spikes (if they happen). If you try to keep all those red bars maxed you are in a world of energy problems very quickly, especially if you use cast and forget spells on targets (like heal breeze - not useful when a target has alot of health, too slow when a target needs alot of healing, not too mention the mesmer enemies that plague the higher-end stuff - yes some tanks get mad at monks for pre-enchanting them at those parts).

Sorry monks, but if you cannot manage your energy and I have to wait for you to regen after each and every fight (normal single patrol, no over aggro), then you lose your respect with me quickly as to me the great leet monks are the ones who just seem to keep healing endlessly (even in over-aggro) and you (almost) never hear.

qvtkc · Dec 01, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

'Commandeering' a group and demanding competence is hardly arrogant. It isn't a matter of conforming to any 'style of monking', it's a matter of being an intelligent human being instead of a button-mashing moron. There isn't a 'style of monking' that makes it okay for people to do stupid things. There's too much tolerance for people who won't use their brains, and I for one am not going to contribute to that trend.

In other words...

The next time I'm an elementalist and some ranger draws the enemies straight into the middle of our group, I'll just stop casting. It wasn't okay for him to do such a stupid thing. Use your brain stupid ranger.

The next time I'm a warrior and I receive crappy healing, I won't stop mobs from getting at the rest of the group. It wasn't ok for the monk to cast orison when it could have been WoH. Use your brain stupid monk.

etc.

Sounds good? No, not really... If any player stops doing his job, usually, people will only find it a minor annoyance, though. If a monk stops doing his job, the party will die. To do something (or stop doing something) that will have a great effect on others just because you can is by definition arrogant, at least if it was implicitly understood when you started that you would do the best you can.

Also, in PvE, even if you are the only monk in a 8-man party of complete noobs, if you run so low on energy/time that you have to let someone die, it's usually your own fault. There are of course exceptions like uninfused people facing mursaat, etc., but generally it's your own fault.

gobla · Dec 01, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

In other words...

The next time I'm an elementalist and some ranger draws the enemies straight into the middle of our group, I'll just stop casting. It wasn't okay for him to do such a stupid thing. Use your brain stupid ranger.

The next time I'm a warrior and I receive crappy healing, I won't stop mobs from getting at the rest of the group. It wasn't ok for the monk to cast orison when it could have been WoH. Use your brain stupid monk.

etc.

Sounds good? No, not really... If any player stops doing his job, usually, people will only find it a minor annoyance, though. If a monk stops doing his job, the party will die. To do something (or stop doing something) that will have a great effect on others just because you can is by definition arrogant, at least if it was implicitly understood when you started that you would do the best you can.

Also, in PvE, even if you are the only monk in a 8-man party of complete noobs, if you run so low on energy/time that you have to let someone die, it's usually your own fault. There are of course exceptions like uninfused people facing mursaat, etc., but generally it's your own fault.

Well Actually it does sound very good.

If the ranger pulled the mobs near to you you should actually not be casting. You should be gaining distance, ditching agro and kiting damage. Same goes for all casters. They should get themselves into safety.

If the monk is doing crappy healing the warrior should indeed stop tanking as it's the only thing he can do at such a time. The only time where healing can possibly be crappy is when someone dies ( This does not mean that everytime someone dies healing is crappy. It only means that if nobody dies then healing is not crappy. ) And seeing as your example affected the tank it means that the tank is in fact dead, if he wasn't then the healing would not be crappy. And if the tank is dead then obviously he can't tank and thus should stop trying to as it's quite useless.

And I'll leave the solo 8man healing and nobody dying comment aside, not worth replying to.

qvtkc · Dec 01, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobla

If the ranger pulled the mobs near to you you should actually not be casting. You should be gaining distance, ditching agro and kiting damage. Same goes for all casters. They should get themselves into safety.

You are right, but I did of course mean stop casting completely, not just for the moment. Also uhm... what safety? Maybe I should hide behind the monk lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobla

If the monk is doing crappy healing the warrior should indeed stop tanking as it's the only thing he can do at such a time. The only time where healing can possibly be crappy is when someone dies ( This does not mean that everytime someone dies healing is crappy. It only means that if nobody dies then healing is not crappy. )

You obviously did not get my point, so I will make it clearer. Crappy playing is ok. GW PvE is so easy (in most cases) that a party can play rather badly and still everything goes quite well. A mesmer can run ahead and agro 3 groups onto the team and sure, the monk can choose not to heal her as punishment... OR he can choose to heal her and everyone will still survive.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule, there are cases where everyone must play really good or else the whole party will be wiped out. But such cases are uncommon. Not healing someone just because he is clumsy, or out of spite, isn't ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobla

And I'll leave the solo 8man healing and nobody dying comment aside, not worth replying to.

Translation: I know that qvtkc is right so there is no point in trying to say anything
(and of course, not making sure that there is a br necro in the team before starting a hard mission or similiar falls under "your own fault")

Effigy · Dec 01, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

qvtkc, no offense but you don't strike me as someone who plays a monk. When you say that a monk should never run out of energy or it's his own fault, this is very telling as to your monking experience. Good monks know how to conserve energy, but if monks never ran out then no one would ever die except to perfectly executed spikes (and we all know how common those are in PvE).

Your example is different from that of Rera and others because we are not saying you should stop healing someone permanently, just like a nuker should not stop nuking permanently or a tank stop tanking permanently. You have to react to the situation. If someone is overaggroing, not kiting, or otherwise wasting all your energy, then it's better to let them die so they don't drain you dry and get the whole group killed. This isn't some kind of protest, it's simply the pragmatic thing to do. Like gobla said, nukers and tanks can also reasonably stop doing their appointed role under some circumstances.

For instance, if you're a tank and you stop getting healed, that's probably a good sign that the monk is running out of energy and you should start pulling out of the spawn. This isn't a protest against the monk's "crappy" healing, it's a practical course of action to take in that situation in order to avoid a wipe. If you're an ele and you get aggro, you should stop casting and start kiting like gobla said.

Your last comment is simply untrue. Monks have to manage their energy, but your teammates actions have a very big effect on how that energy ends up being used. This is especially true when solo monking.

Jenn · Dec 01, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

A lot of people unreasonably accuse monks of having an attitude.
Those who "monk for money" in a party are an entirely different story - they should be slapped in the face with raw chicken

Having said that, there's plenty of monks who Don't ask for money, yet appear to have an attitude.

Consider this, for those who have never monked:
- Taking care of the overwhelming growth of stupid people is difficult
- People assume that you're there to heal them while they run off stupidly
- People don't take personal responsibility for their own actions
- It's not always the most fun thing, sitting and watching little red bars
- It's stressful, because you DO feel the burden is on you to keep the party alive in times where you may be babysitting an entire gang of dummies.

In my opinion, it's usually the monk who knows best if a party is going to fail - they're there taking the heat with everyone else, AND trying to keep them alive in a mission. A monk best knows their limits, and if this party is capable or not to handle what lies ahead. Allbeit, I don't ragequit even if the party is ridiculously difficult to succeed with - I can understand why some monks do.

Have sympathy for the monks! They are there to *help* you when and IF situations get sticky NOT due to another player's fault (i.e. over aggro, not following called targets, not kiting). A group should be able to reaonably take damage, if they play smart, and monk should not have to overextend their healing just to keep a few people alive.

geekling · Dec 01, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

You missed one salient point in your little list. (Which I'm not directly disagreeing with, BTW.) It's probably been said before, but it bears repeating.

Monks are usually in the more often than not unique position of being aware of what everyone else in the team are up to.

This is probably the largest factor in monks having a percieved attitude, they're the ones that pay attention and not always keeping quiet about what they see. They have to, well not speak out. But be aware, that's part of the job description.

The monk needs to know where everyone in the party is, who is taking damage, who's not. Who's kiting to avoid damage, who thinks he's leroy jeenkins, who stands still in a AoE without even taking two steps to the side to avoid the damage. Who is attacking, who is not, who is over extending. Who is in the middle of a mob, who's on the backlines, where the next mob is and how many mobs there are in the area etc. etc. etc.

Many other professions can get away with putting blinders on and just concentrate on their own stuff, not having a clue what the rest of the team is up to. Hitting c+space, watch the red bar go down, hit c+space again over and over again. At the most they're aware of the monk, in that they don't die and every now and then there's blue numbers over their head. But the average tank hasn't got a clue what the nukers on the back line is up to. Or the rangers, or even the other tank in the party.

The monk's like santa claus, she knows if you've been naughty or nice.

qvtkc · Dec 01, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

qvtkc, no offense but you don't strike me as someone who plays a monk.

Protector of Tyria title on my monk char. Have not yet bothered with the other campaigns as monk cause i have 10 chars and limited time

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

Your example is different from that of Rera and others because we are not saying you should stop healing someone permanently, just like a nuker should not stop nuking permanently or a tank stop tanking permanently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobla

- You're not a ranger or warrior and you pull? I let you die
- You're not a warrior and taking major damage for more then 10 secs? I let you die
- You're rushing ahead of the group? I let you die

To me, it sounds about the same... "You mess up, I stop doing my job". As I said, not healing someone cause that someone is clumsy is not ok. As a warrior, not body blocking so that your monk can escape some melee mob because that monk uses the wrong skills is also not ok. Am I clear enough by now?

Refusing to heal someone who is on the other side of the compass map agroing 50 aatxes while wearing armor bought in yak's bend is another thing entirely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

Your last comment is simply untrue. Monks have to manage their energy, but your teammates actions have a very big effect on how that energy ends up being used. This is especially true when solo monking.

I was in the ruins of the tombs of the primevial kings the other day. In a b/p team. We had one monk. He ran out of energy every now and then. He called his energy... 2 of 45 or whatever... Then the orders necro would run up to him and cast some random spell and then the monk would keep healing

its all voodoo magic i tell you
I have also seen monk/mesmers using some kind of purple skill to gain energy back, omg, and other tricks too

...of course, there will always be occasions where it's just too much, you get no help from your teammates and on top of that they aggro more enemies while you are already low on energy. You will be out of options and someone will die, so you have to make choices. That much is obvious. But the cases mentioned so far... I mean come on, "You're not a warrior and taking major damage for more then 10 secs? I let you die" - if they are already amongst your casters, and you can't keep people alive, chances are that once you let that caster die they will just go for the next one and you can't keep that one alive either.

XvArchonvX · Dec 01, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

I think one of the largest reasons that monks draw so much heat when they run out of energy is because they are different on their energy expenditure than other classes.

A good elementalist/necro/warrior/whatever will have a build that will provide roughly the same income as their expenditure. It is possible for a non-healing type class to roughly guess what their energy expenditure will be since they will be performing an action that is generally at the same intensity throughout battle.

Monks (or any other healing defensive class for that matter) are at the mercy of the degree of damage dealt to their party. A group might take a small amount of damage or it might take a ton of damage. There really isn't a realistic limit to the amount of dps a group can be dealt, but the group's damage output is relatively constant. Therein lies the difference in classes and because of such, I believe, there are many out there who don't understand why monks can run out of energy when they (the damage dealer) don't

random.name · Dec 01, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Lets look at the 'not healing a player' issue by looking at a example of a common occurance.

You are the only monk in a group of 8. Of those 8 one is a Sin, and one is a warrior. Now, you run into a normal patrol of 4-6 enemies. Sin shadowsteps in, and takes full aggro. His armor is simply not equipped to sustain the damage of the whole group. The sin immediately eats a huge damage spike, so you have to start healing. But no, that is not enough. Because he is eating the spike, you actually have to stack the heals on him. Group dies, Sin survives and everyone is happy.

Now take that exact scenario and translate it into a mission like Vishnu Square. Same sin, aggros a group of 8. Now lets see any HEALING monk try to keep that sin alive. Because he is eating a huge spike, I have to stack heals on him. Lets say my energy gets to 20 at this stage, and only one of the original 8 enemies have died. I now have to make a choice. Do I keep on healing the Sin untill my energy is 0? Or do I realise that that I have another 6 people depending on me to keep them alive and that with no energy everyone will die except that one assassin that cant seem to realize his role in the group?

To me the answer is clear.

the_jos · Dec 01, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

I was in the ruins of the tombs of the primevial kings the other day. In a b/p team. We had one monk. He ran out of energy every now and then. He called his energy... 2 of 45 or whatever... Then the orders necro would run up to him and cast some random spell and then the monk would keep healing its all voodoo magic i tell you.

A nice example of a good team setup.
Default team layout:
- 5 barrage / pet rangers
- 1 minion master
- 1 orders necro
- 1 healer

When order necro is using Order of the Vampire (+17 at 16 attribute points) and rangers use Vamp bow string (+5) they are hitting for +22 health with each arrow.
That makes 132 health they gain when hitting 6 enemies.
The pets and minions should take most damage, so less healing required.

The only time the healer should be stressed is when someone is in the middle of the Meteor Shower or when a ranger fires through Emphaty.
The grasps can be handled with a little Throw Dirt.

Sure it's no vodoo magic, but when you are not running a skillbar full of 5 energy spells you will run into energy problems sooner or later.
Effigy is right when he says you team has a very large influence on the energy of the monk.
You'r B/P story only confirmed this.

About energy management:
With a default PuG, you cannot rely on a blood ritual necro.
Mantra of Recall (the purple mesmer thing) is an enchantment, works in Prophecies, works less in Factions and Nightfall (more enchantment removers). E-drain (other mesmer elite) also works (the full 7 energy every 25 seconds with 9 inspiration, when the target has at least 6 energy left). And puts the monk in the danger zone.
Offering of Blood (necro Elite) nets 10 energy every 15 seconds, but takes 20% health.
I won't even talk about that one monk e-management Elite that no-one uses.

So much for energy management on monks.

Rera · Dec 01, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Crappy playing is ok.

This is the fundamental difference between your viewpoint and mine. We can argue the issues as long as you like, but as long as this difference remains, nothing either of us says will make any difference.

Your analogy to nukers that stop nuking and warriors that stop bodyblocking is inaccurate because either of these actions punishes the entire team at once. The correct comparison to a nuker that stops nuking is a monk that won't heal anyone. The accuracy of this revised comparison is obvious when you consider the effect on the player herself: a nuker that doesn't nuke might as well leave, just as a monk that won't heal anyone might as well leave.

The distinction, of course, is that a monk can pick and choose who to heal. One moron in a party of otherwise intelligent, capable players can be surgically removed by the monks, actually leaving the party better off. A nuker or warrior has no such precision with their actions. If all of your nukers stop nuking, your entire party is in serious trouble. If all of your monks stop healing one idiot, the rest of your party can go their merry way.

But again, the fundamental difference between you and me is that you think "crappy playing is ok". If you can't be bothered to move out of a maelstrom, even after being told, you're an idiot, end of discussion. I refuse to put up with it, and I shouldn't have to. How I spend my time is my choice alone, and I choose not to spend it babysitting morons.

Poison Ivy · Dec 02, 2006, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

About energy management:
With a default PuG, you cannot rely on a blood ritual necro.
Mantra of Recall (the purple mesmer thing) is an enchantment, works in Prophecies, works less in Factions and Nightfall (more enchantment removers). E-drain (other mesmer elite) also works (the full 7 energy every 25 seconds with 9 inspiration, when the target has at least 6 energy left). And puts the monk in the danger zone.
Offering of Blood (necro Elite) nets 10 energy every 15 seconds, but takes 20% health.
I won't even talk about that one monk e-management Elite that no-one uses.

What are you talking about...there are plenty of Energy Management techniques and skills, for example

Signet of Devotion & Signet of Rejunvanation [Free heals]
Healing Seed [The more damage you prevent, the less you have to Heal]

Tell the casters to kite

Kite when your getting pwnd

Don't overheal

Tell that damn Leroy if he does something stupid/reckless, you will pretend he's not in the team.

and my favourite: Screw pugs, hench 4 life.

the_jos · Dec 02, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

I know Signet of Devotion (don't like the 2 seconds casting time, but indeed free heal)
Have not used Signet of Rejuvenation yet (1 second casting sounds a lot better).
Healing Seed is a good skill, but I don't use that one very often.

I know how to preserve energy.
Example: a couple of days ago I was with a 8, later 6 person team on Ring of Fire, one of the 6 was not infused. Ran my basic WoH build, one member who dc-ed took one protector hero and some other hero, both were ressing the non-infused person all the time.
The lowest I got on energy was around 10.
The occasional Life Sheet from the prot hero (when he was not ressing) did help me

I cannot control the other characters, so other people kiting and leroying are something I can help with.
And that's the "very big effect on how that energy ends up being used" that's Effigy was talking about.
The 'not healing the Leroy' has had quite some comments (both healing and not-healing).
My thought on this: When he's not draining all my energy, I heal (like the non-infused player mentioned above). When he's up, he deals damage and when he takes damage someone else does not.

I like the 'screw pugs, hench 4 life' option. That's my quest strategy.
But I like to play my missions with real people.

But, in general, it's the way the party plays that determines how the energy of a (good) monk is used.
It's not so much the (secondary) energy-gain skills that 'qvtkc' was talking about. Those help somewhat, as do the skills you mentioned.

liquiddrool · Dec 07, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

We're angry because boon prot was nerfed.

Akhilleus · Dec 07, 2006, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

This is the fundamental difference between your viewpoint and mine. We can argue the issues as long as you like, but as long as this difference remains, nothing either of us says will make any difference.

Your analogy to nukers that stop nuking and warriors that stop bodyblocking is inaccurate because either of these actions punishes the entire team at once. The correct comparison to a nuker that stops nuking is a monk that won't heal anyone. The accuracy of this revised comparison is obvious when you consider the effect on the player herself: a nuker that doesn't nuke might as well leave, just as a monk that won't heal anyone might as well leave.

The distinction, of course, is that a monk can pick and choose who to heal. One moron in a party of otherwise intelligent, capable players can be surgically removed by the monks, actually leaving the party better off. A nuker or warrior has no such precision with their actions. If all of your nukers stop nuking, your entire party is in serious trouble. If all of your monks stop healing one idiot, the rest of your party can go their merry way.

But again, the fundamental difference between you and me is that you think "crappy playing is ok". If you can't be bothered to move out of a maelstrom, even after being told, you're an idiot, end of discussion. I refuse to put up with it, and I shouldn't have to. How I spend my time is my choice alone, and I choose not to spend it babysitting morons.

very, very well said.
IMO, its not ok when people i play with start doing stuff, and far, far more importantly, its not ok when i start doing stupid stuff. i'f im tired as hell and my heals or prots arent getting there on time, and people are coming dangerously low to dying, and i see that theres an issue, i will do my best to sharpen up and fix it.
the mentality of "it doesnt really matter" is stupid, even more stupid is the "its just a game" excuse when people engage in an act of absolute debauchery. yes, it is just a game, but guess what, right now we are playing the game, and i'd rather not have to do the same thing a seccond time because of 1 imbicil.
when i monk; if someones being a class-action dumbshit, that person gets to die, and gets to not be honored with one of my resurrects. i'll tell the rest of the party they are an idiot, we're better off without them, and not to res them. if they dont listen and do so anyway, when that person dies a few more times they will eventually figure it out for themselves and quit supporting "jerry's kids."
if im on my warrior, and i see a monk cant handle their stuff, i'll slow down a bit. and if theres a seccond monk, you try to get the two to split the party up. 1 heals the top 4, the other heals the bottom 4; and any time someone is on the verge, send a heal their way regardless. this tends to solve the problem if 1 out of the 2 monks is a dud, though occasionally 1 good monk cant make up for 1 crappy one. if an elementalist cant do their job, you start getting them to follow targets.
you do as much as you can to fine-tune the group; cutting off the fat where needed, and making the most of what you have. and if people still dont respond; if people still keep on ressing that 1 kamikazi-warrior, if the monk keeps on healing people who are at 100% hp and then calling for energy, if the nukers keep wasting AoE skills on 1 foe, and in rapid sucession, casuing them to flee, and otherwise advice and commands reach deaf ears, then you have a civic duty to leave that party (no matter your character class) so they they can learn stupidity isnt tolerated.
so long as you walk around displaying the idea that playing half-assed is ok, you contribute to the degredation of the gaming quality of the population. as long as you demand more of people, and screw them over as best you can when nothing is done, they may (eventually) realize the true source of the problem, and fix it, making the gaming population better as a whole.

the only perceived downside to my philosophy is that you can end up pissing off a few people that werent worth playing with anyway.
is it a harsh stance? yes.
but its also one aimed at improving things.

Cebe · Dec 07, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

If I still have 15 energy or more ill heal every moron in range, if it sinks below 15 I have to start making choices and that's the moment the moron dies. Not my problem if he/she plays like horsecrap when I tried all I could...

Precisely.

My whole stance on this is if, say, I'm in a group with someone who appears to be getting targetted more than any other character...like someone in Zen Daijun who is still in starter armor...let's call him "Mr. Assassin"...after they have taken so much healing off me I have to then make a decision whether to continue or just stop. If I continue my energy may become too depleated, so sometimes it seems neccessary to just stop healing "Mr. Assassin" for the good of the rest of the team...even if he dies. This has happened on several occaisions. Once in Zen Daijun I asked "Mr. Assassin" if he had changed his armor since he started the game to which the reply was "What's armor?".

The best advice I was ever given, by someone on this forum as it happens was, unless they're under 80% health, they don't need healing. It saves so much energy and stops so much overheal.

Maleki · Dec 07, 2006, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Wow, this thread turned in to a large gripe fest about pugs and then about monks and then about pugs again. I think that the reason that monks dont get as much respect as they did originally is that there is more to fill that staple now, in the form of pargons, e/mos and ritualists. Back before SF..people hadnt experimented as much and monks were the best heals in town and everyone knew it. Nowadays a secondary monk can sometimes do the job of a poor monk better. I think all classes deserve some love, because every class gets misunderstood and gets yelled at. monks and frontline characters get the most heat because they are important. frontlines are supposed to deal dmg. while maintaing range from agro and stay within healing. The monk can also be the one who must be johnny on the spot, and pay attention to his surroundings and that those little red bars.

In summation I think that I have had more leeroys than straight up bad monks. But I think this is due to the fact that monks usually have a backup, and monks know when it doesnt seem like the other isnt pulling weight. It is all relative. We were all noobs once, and we all still make mistakes. So we looked like a noob to someone at some point in our guild wars career. Thus the cycle goes.

*EDIT* Eventually monks grow in to better bars and eventually warriors grow out of mending and healing breeze

Xeeron · Dec 07, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Why do people disrespect monks now?

Because it is easier to spot a bad monk than a bad necro (elly,warrior, etc).

When I join a PuG and I am teamed with a bad monk, I'll notice 10 seconds into the first fight, when all those healing breezes start apearing. If it is a bad necro, I might not notice at all, unless I find the time to watch him cast his skills, which I usually dont have if he is bad and things get rough for the party.

- Xeeron

Critical Cal · Dec 07, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Thinking that YOU have the right answer to all these situations: Unless you have played extensivelly (the class you are Flamming) And especially if have: You should be offiring some kind of usefull information or providing an example! For the most part the vast majority of players I've encountered are only concerned with complaining about so & so, how does this make anything better?