Curse

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 02, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

I had a very interesting run in with a Ranger today. My guild officer wanted to beat up on Shiro so she could get a iron wing longbow with an amulet that she had.

So I meet her in the Imperial Sanctum with my ranger,she had a ranger,too. But then, she was in a group of rangers,all new to fighting Shiro. I was like, OMG what are we doing with a group of rangers? She is very helpful,so she was willing to try...it's her greatest strength, and her biggest weakness.

So, we get smacked by Shiro...myself getting caught by the uber super stance tank buzzsaw that is Mr. Tagachi as the last man in his way. We reorganize, get a couple of friends when the 1st of the PuG Rangers left.

So, we try again,after explaining to trap Shiro, so that the warrior can use his celestial skill as we hug close to Shiro. however, new rangers don't know "Hug" or "Stay close", they seem to only know "Range", "Shoot Arrows", and "Apply poison", and the last one is a show of the young Ranger's growth.

These rangers that I found myself with weren't even their. I mean it was ugly when I saw the R/E use meteor shower on Shiro...but then noticed that he was also using Barrage...and he apparently wasn't the only one.

Once my guildie tossed the novices, we beat Shiro easily( Though I did sneak change to necro, and put the bow away for SS and cursed him to death

). My point for this thread is that young Rangers are lacking skill. They can't play their roles well, and I want to know what the more experienced would recommend as a way to stop such a skilled profession from being sucked into the Gimmicky masses.

For Christ's sake, he brought Barrage to fight Shiro...1 boss

[skill=big]Barrage[/skill]

6 Arrows in a spread isn't a functional skill for 1 on 1 or even 8 on 1 combat scenarios. What makes these young rangers gravitate to this one situational skill? What makes them join this Cult-like following of Barrage wielding crazies who think that Barrage is "THE" skill for everything that has to do with being a Ranger?

We can't let the new blood flounder into idiodicy and become the butt end of bad jokes like the W/Mos that use mending. Help me stop this Cult from festering and becoming the thing of frustration that it is building up to be.

Teach the youth, or you are part of the problem called "Ranger Ignorance"

.

jesh · Dec 02, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Most of the rangers here use Barrage also.
I don't like it too much, personally, but so be it.
As for skill levels among guildwars players... well that's been quite low for some time now. *shrugs and hands him a beer*

Milan-V · Dec 02, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Lolz, that was actually kinda funny to read

If you'd just send them to Boreas Seabed mission for capping Broad Head Arrow (takes 5 mins) you would be ok...but barrage _O-
Yeah, I'm also annoyed by the level of some guild wars players. In Nunda Bay mission yesterday we had a dervish collecting drops when fighting the last mob >_<
Me as the Support P was the only one dealing damage... But we did it.

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 02, 2006, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Boreas Seabed has 2 ranger elites at the beginning of the mission. Barrage or Broad Head Arrow. 3 guesses to which one every character caps first

.

The thing is that with factions, alot of rangers have entered into the communitee that lack the skill to run various builds as was the case with most Tyrian rangers. The lack of changing hostile enviornments is the cause of this problem,imho, since Cantha is the capital of mob violence.

lilnate22 · Dec 02, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

im guessing its the russian mob in cantha.... the italians have variety..

Alotia Slipfeet · Dec 02, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

LOL, yea alot of people thinks its the ultimate elite for rangers, for myself I tend to run toward oath/crip/escape. its hard to talk somebody out of it once they are set on hitting the mutliple targets even though most missions/quests/pvp its useless because at the most your hitting 2-4 guys and for pvp its really really stupid because most of the time your not dealing with mobs (except for ab if its a stupid day)

Amity and Truth · Dec 02, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

I blame the B/P Gimmick Build for the extreme use of barrage. B/P just owns everything in PVE (even DoA -.-) and so it becomes the natural choice of young rangers to pick Barrage.
It guarantees them a spot in teams, normal or farming. If they take the risk to bring BHA (which is just godly in PVE) they expose themself to the risk of being kicked from the team because BHA is not cookie cutter.

Loki Seiguro · Dec 02, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Barrage is a good skill and btw i think you show some noobness by saying they brought it for only one target. Ture it does hit mulitple tagets but it also adds like 17 dmg at only 2 energy cost if they have like 9 exp.

i use barrge too but for shir i believe i went with a touch ranger lmao but can't rember maybe not....yeah i know touchers suck and w/e

i dont really have any true build for my ranger yet maybe just the solo fow one on this forums because i don't play my ranger any more

Loki Seiguro · Dec 02, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

BHA is for Pvp mostly as ive seen not many bosses get affected by dazing

XvArchonvX · Dec 02, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Yea, there will always be people of all classes that just find one build and stick with it through the whole game. I think this comes mostly from the high cost of skills against new players as well as the fact that a lot of new players don't know what to expect in their next mission and just figure that barrage is a safe choice. Considering how effective Barrage is in so many places that are filled with huge mobs of crappy enemies, I can understand why some would reach for it when in doubt.

I think one of the largest cause of people blindly choosing skills and not knowing if they will work in a mission or not is because they simply don't ask or search around to find out what they will encounter. Part of this may be the fear of being called a noob or being kicked from a group just because they found that it's your first time, but part of it is likely just laziness (since Gwiki has info and advice on almost every mission in GW).

As sad as it is to see barrage rangers against Shiro, I don't think it will take the same place as mending wammos because barrage on a ranger is still often a good choice compared to other skills, while mending on a warrior is....well....not.

Amity and Truth · Dec 02, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki Seiguro

BHA is for Pvp mostly as ive seen not many bosses get affected by dazing

If you just don't really know, don't state nonsense.
It's next to useless in PVP as a condition such as dazed is removed almost in the same second it was applied. Almost every mob in PVE is affected by dazed. I've yet to see a single enemy who isn't. And it's very powerful against the unbalanced bossmobs, yes dazed won't make them cast for 2 seconds. They're casting with double speed anyways so dazed will at best put them down to normal casting speed. But if your full team is wailing on the enemy he won't get a spell off.

lishi · Dec 02, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

If you just don't really know, don't state nonsense.
It's next to useless in PVP as a condition such as dazed is removed almost in the same second it was applied. Almost every mob in PVE is affected by dazed. I've yet to see a single enemy who isn't. And it's very powerful against the unbalanced bossmobs, yes dazed won't make them cast for 2 seconds. They're casting with double speed anyways so dazed will at best put them down to normal casting speed. But if your full team is wailing on the enemy he won't get a spell off.

few pve mob need be shutdown by daze

what the point of dazing a guy if you can kill it in less then 5 second?

like you stated the only case where bha may be usefull are to hunt down an ele boss.

but that is like mhh 1% of gw pve ...

the_jos · Dec 02, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

I did a couple of runs on Perdition Rock to get some of my heroes to level 20.

Working with Barrage Jin (and running barrage myself) and Orders Master of Wispers just owns the place more than Broad Head Jin and Broad Head me.
No pets (more room for interrupts).
But the place just 'asks' for barrage (with all those minion raising golems around and the packed Phantoms.

I've noticed myself that it's harder to get in a group with Broad Head compared to Barrage. Even if Broad Head is the better skill for the mission.

Most of the people complain about those annoying casters running around and they can't hit, while my crip-shot ranger could have solved that problem.
Water ele or illusions mesmer could also solve that problem. But those also are not the prefered builds to some.

I can think of some better builds, but those depend more on the total team build.
Since PuG's are very often those 'gogogogogogogo' ones, you cannot adjust skills to maximum team performance.
So no Me, Ne, R combination for spreading conditions fast and hurting the enemies even more while doing that.

I think people want Barrage since you cannot Barrage wrong.
It's just tapping 1,1,1,1,1 all the time till you hear the 'invalid target' sound, Tab (switch target), 1,1,1,1,1.
When using Broad Head, you have to think (dazing a warrior or ranger is a wasted shot).

In the end, Barrage is just the safe option for the ignorant team builder, I guess.

XvArchonvX · Dec 02, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Yea, BHA is only really useful against bosses. Even then in most scenarios you are better of bringing Concussion Shot and leaving your elite slot open.

FalconDance · Dec 02, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

I remember when my (first) ranger, Lili, capped Barrage in Prophecies. It was sooooo exciting because everyone said it was the ranger skill to beat all. I think she's used it about three times in two chapters (hasn't made it to Elona yet). The elite Poison is on her skillbar far more often for general PvE.

Sanura, my Elonian ranger, doesn't even have Barrage yet although whenever I choose Jin for hero (with my non-ranger characters), I equip her with it more often than not. For Sanura, Burning Arrow works better - and I have yet to see anything that isn't affected by it! Put BA on top of poison with a fleshy foe and watch their health bar plummet.

It's sometimes a challenge getting into a PuG without Barrage, though. Seems as if other professions assume that if you're not running Barrage, you must not be a very good ranger. *rolls eyes*

Barrage has its place, but personally I think there are far better elites to use. I would agree that a lot of rangers fall into the "but everyone says...." trap, but if there are enough of us old-timers giving them pointers, maybe they'll come around

.

AuraofMana · Dec 02, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Barrage is a good skill and btw i think you show some noobness by saying they brought it for only one target. Ture it does hit mulitple tagets but it also adds like 17 dmg at only 2 energy cost if they have like 9 exp.

There are better NONELITE bow attacks that deal much more to a single target.
And yes, some of them cost 5 energy without Expertise factoring in.

Blkout · Dec 02, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

I had a very interesting run in with a Ranger today. My guild officer wanted to beat up on Shiro so she could get a iron wing longbow with an amulet that she had.

So I meet her in the Imperial Sanctum with my ranger,she had a ranger,too. But then, she was in a group of rangers,all new to fighting Shiro. I was like, OMG what are we doing with a group of rangers? She is very helpful,so she was willing to try...it's her greatest strength, and her biggest weakness.

So, we get smacked by Shiro...myself getting caught by the uber super stance tank buzzsaw that is Mr. Tagachi as the last man in his way. We reorganize, get a couple of friends when the 1st of the PuG Rangers left.

So, we try again,after explaining to trap Shiro, so that the warrior can use his celestial skill as we hug close to Shiro. however, new rangers don't know "Hug" or "Stay close", they seem to only know "Range", "Shoot Arrows", and "Apply poison", and the last one is a show of the young Ranger's growth.

These rangers that I found myself with weren't even their. I mean it was ugly when I saw the R/E use meteor shower on Shiro...but then noticed that he was also using Barrage...and he apparently wasn't the only one.

Once my guildie tossed the novices, we beat Shiro easily( Though I did sneak change to necro, and put the bow away for SS and cursed him to death

). My point for this thread is that young Rangers are lacking skill. They can't play their roles well, and I want to know what the more experienced would recommend as a way to stop such a skilled profession from being sucked into the Gimmicky masses.

For Christ's sake, he brought Barrage to fight Shiro...1 boss

[skill=big]Barrage[/skill]

6 Arrows in a spread isn't a functional skill for 1 on 1 or even 8 on 1 combat scenarios. What makes these young rangers gravitate to this one situational skill? What makes them join this Cult-like following of Barrage wielding crazies who think that Barrage is "THE" skill for everything that has to do with being a Ranger?

We can't let the new blood flounder into idiodicy and become the butt end of bad jokes like the W/Mos that use mending. Help me stop this Cult from festering and becoming the thing of frustration that it is building up to be.

Teach the youth, or you are part of the problem called "Ranger Ignorance"

.

Did you forget that Barrage adds an extra +17 spammable damage, even on a single arrow? Apparently so.

dargon · Dec 02, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

There are better NONELITE bow attacks that deal much more to a single target.
And yes, some of them cost 5 energy without Expertise factoring in.

Yes there are, and exactly none of them have a 1 second recharge. the next best cheap spammable bow attack looks to be focused shot, same cost as barrage, 2 second recharge (which is fine given that bows themselves need a couple seconds), however it DISABLES all other attack skills for 3 seconds, whoops, guess you're not interrupting that nasty action mob X is about to do to you. Next in line is Crossfire and then Hunters Shot (IMO), both of which have even longer recharges. Barrage may not have the best +damage, but it's cheap, spammable and has no drawback other than no preparations which quite a few rangers don't even run.

For the record, the only other 1 second recharge bow attack is crippling shot and it costs 15 before expertise.

Dutch Masterr · Dec 02, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

my theory is this---barrage is strictly for pve situations with large groups close together...never ever ever ever EVER use barrage in pvp or against 1 single target, even though it is spammable, its not practical....if your going to fight against shiro (or another simmilar situation) and bring an elite bow attack, go with either poison arrow, burning arrow, or crippling shot....those would be my choices. if not elite bow attacks, go with traps or or elite evasion skills such as escape.

KazeMitsui · Dec 02, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

I remember when my (first) ranger, Lili, capped Barrage in Prophecies. It was sooooo exciting because everyone said it was the ranger skill to beat all. I think she's used it about three times in two chapters (hasn't made it to Elona yet). The elite Poison is on her skillbar far more often for general PvE.

Sanura, my Elonian ranger, doesn't even have Barrage yet although whenever I choose Jin for hero (with my non-ranger characters), I equip her with it more often than not. For Sanura, Burning Arrow works better - and I have yet to see anything that isn't affected by it! Put BA on top of poison with a fleshy foe and watch their health bar plummet.

It's sometimes a challenge getting into a PuG without Barrage, though. Seems as if other professions assume that if you're not running Barrage, you must not be a very good ranger. *rolls eyes*

Barrage has its place, but personally I think there are far better elites to use. I would agree that a lot of rangers fall into the "but everyone says...." trap, but if there are enough of us old-timers giving them pointers, maybe they'll come around

.

i totally agree with you barrage... i was so excited when i first got to cap it from that dude after that mission. Everyone was telling me how great it was and all that saying it was the skill to have and nothing else but i found out... That i rarely ever use that skill the only time i use it was when i farm trolls oh so long ago... but yea i too use Burning Arrow and it helps so much more than barrage.. I just dont really see why people always want B/P cause to me its like a meh NO... but yea here is a screenie and tell me if im still a noob ranger...

take in mind i rarely ever solo cause i only farmed trolls for like 5 skill points... so i could cap elites for title