Curse

SnipiousMax · Jun 06, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

....the additional Enchantment effect....

Why would you want to maintain it? Why do you need another enchantment?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

Personally, I'm a big fan of Signet of Devotion. Inspired Hex won't work when you're getting Energy drained, which is the main reason I use that Signet.

If you are getting energy drained...then this isn't going to help you much. You cannot survive long, nor can your team on this skill alone. That's why I'd rather have another inspired/reveled hex.

chemmjr · Jun 06, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

If you are getting energy drained...then this isn't going to help you much. You cannot survive long, nor can your team on this skill alone. That's why I'd rather have another inspired/reveled hex.

.

I agree with you, that's why i believe edrain + Ihex + Drain ench, combined are much better e-management(s) compared to the others. Individually they may not be as efficient as MoR, however they help your team and yourself. Especially in RA and TA.

Of course dr ench is not spammable it is very useful:

1/4 health Wammo just cast healing hands (dr ench + edrain)
Sin just cast shadow whatever
Mesmer just cast IW (or echo)
Remove an attument from a ele or Me/ele

By all means im not trying to be a mesmer but during battles when most people are at 5-10 energy you can severly hinder their attacks or defenses by skillfully using the above skills

As an added bonus it forces you (by targeting them) to pay attention to what skills the other sides are using. i.e. perhaps your not the target of a migraine mesmer, but your ele is, the only way you would know is if your ele calls it or you insp hex it.

thus my bar

Guadrian, RoF, H. Veil, Insp Hex, Dr Ench, Mend Cond, Boon, E Drain

2 hex removal (+ e management)
1 ench removal (+ e management)
3 heals
1 e management

all team oriented

pah01 · Jun 07, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

@ Snipious

Holy veils additional enchantment effect means that it will synergise with contemplation of purity.

Maxie is right about inspired hex not helping when under energy denial.

Then you need to swap down to lowest set and use signet to heal while sitting at ZERO energy. That is one of the good things about the signet. The other good thing is the fact that its recharge and its decent heal for free are better over time that the energy gained from inspired hex.

Notice that Word of Healing is called energy management because of its efficiency which can approach 40 HP per energy point easily. Well the signet of devotion has an infinite efficiency and it is worth putting on your bar if one can.

@ Chemmjr

I think your build is not self sufficient eneogh for TA/RA and it lacks certain must have skills for GVG. Reason? In TA you will get ganked and hence you need to have quite a bit of self defence which your build doesnt have.

In RA/TA i would bring ailment and contemplation because you need to have some self defence there.

That said in GVG I wouldnt go anywhere w/o both prot spirit and spirit bond on each monk in your backline. (They carry one each of course)

Team orientated you may consider your build to be but you will get stomped on by memsers and then you will lose.

Drain enchantment plus energy drain puts extra strain on your resources of concentration and I wouldnt recomennd both in PVP. You have eneogh to do watching enemy movement and looking for improvised spikes w/o looking for targets to edrain and enchant drain at the same time. Choose one of them and if you must use drain enchant use mor instead.

Sam

BlueNovember · Jun 07, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

Weapon set 1:

The Katana is obtained from the crafter Shichiroji, Pommel not included.
The Jeweled Chalice is obtained from the crafter Nago.

I have a spare copy of that exact challice if anyone wants to buy it.
*Sold*

SnipiousMax · Jun 07, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Holy veils additional enchantment effect means that it will synergise with contemplation of purity.

Okay that's what I thought, just wanted to be sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Then you need to swap down to lowest set and use signet to heal while sitting at ZERO energy. That is one of the good things about the signet. The other good thing is the fact that its recharge and its decent heal for free are better over time that the energy gained from inspired hex.

True enough... I hadn't thought of that.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jun 07, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Inspired Hex was designed for anti-diversion measures. Holy Veil does have my salute though but Diversion, even with its updated nerf, can rip a monk in half if they have to heal/cast and what not.

Inspired serves as both extra energy and diversion of it gets shaved off in 20s.

Holy Veil can't do that, but at least it does the synergy as you said.

Wondering, if you use CoP with the proper enchantments, does Diversion take effect to shut it down for xx seconds?

chemmjr · Jun 07, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@ Snipious

In RA/TA i would bring ailment and contemplation because you need to have some self defence there.

Sam

forgot my attributes but 44% guardian is sufficient when you heal for over 100 every cast, + knowing when the warrior(s) is going to unload on you to use Rof

And if you have so many conditions use them to your advantage, mend condition

One major problem for every monk are well timed KD(s) (by the team not just the thumpers, etc)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@ Snipious

That said in GVG I wouldnt go anywhere w/o both prot spirit and spirit bond on each monk in your backline. (They carry one each of course)

Sam

True in GVG i bring prot spirit and leave the enchantment removal to others
but in RA and TA I leave Prot spirit and bring Drain Enchament

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@ Snipious

Team orientated you may consider your build to be but you will get stomped on by memsers and then you will lose.

Sam

Excellent edenial mesmers will always be a problem (those that wait untill your at 3 pips and then drain you)

But migraine/degen/interrupt mesmers usually are not. I usually precast veil (on myself and the wars) and wait until those really evil hexes are cast

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@ Snipious
Drain enchantment plus energy drain puts extra strain on your resources of concentration and I wouldnt recomennd both in PVP.
Sam

As with anything else its does take some practice

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@ Snipious

You have eneogh to do watching enemy movement and looking for improvised spikes w/o looking for targets to edrain and enchant drain at the same time.

Sam

That's why careful layout of your interface is so important and usually i edrain cycle targets then drain enchament while watching the health bars

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@ Snipious

Choose one of them and if you must use drain enchant use mor instead.

Sam

With the build above using mor at 2pips of energy regen (veil and boon) is not sufficient, in addition one thing i love to do with Drain Enchantment is wait until the other monk uses MoR

better yet you could use Insp Enchament and use their MoR

I guess I found a boon build that works for me that might not work for everyone

Thank you for your feed back

ibex333 · Jun 07, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Maxiemonster, you did not explain your reasons for weapon sets 1 and 2, and how you use them.
I've been playing the game since it came out, but I suck with a monk.. so I'm practically a noob when it comes to a monk. I dont understand why people use mesmer items for a boon prot and not the prot/divine weapons.
I'm assuming they are used to recharge the mantra of recall faster?? But doesnt all that switching just to get energy faster distract you from healing ppl?

Are there any better alternatives for sets 1 and 2?

Lurid · Jun 07, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

I'm not sure about your first question.

I personally use:

Weapon - +5 Energy Katana w/ Enchant Mod
Offhand - 20 / 20 Cast / Recharge for Prot

Weapon - 20 / 20 Cast / Recharge for Prot Wand
Offhand - 20 / 20 Cast / Recharge for Prot

pah01 · Jun 08, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

I still say that you need mend ailment plus contemplation of purity for self defence.

You will get deep wounds and other conditions that you want to remove but they are not high eneogh on the priority that you want to contemplate them off. Cripple may be one of those conditions.

Contemplation of purity is not self defence against warriors but it is against a bumload of hexes which in RA can be quite powerful if you cant get them off you because you need to cast.

Backfire is one example. The simple counter to this is not casting or using signets or skills. However someone over there needs healing so you need some self removal before casting.

If you keep your veil precast alongside your boon it is actually blasphemous to not bring cop as it is so excellent alongside holy veil - if you dont precast the veil then cop is needed to cop of the backfire.

Now then there are a bunch of other hexes that mesmers and necros can cast on you and if your only defence is holy veil w/o cop I think you will find that good mesmers will make those hexes stick.

Of course this may not be your exp with RA/TA and to be honest most mesmers there are not that good but when you meet a good mesmer who knows what he is doing pre-cast veil is not going to be sufficient.

As for e-denial well thats just using focus swapping so thats not so relevant to your skill choices.

I still dont like the idea of having two skills for energy management that target the enemy. I think it may work for you but you still are gimping yourself.

The context I am arguing from in GVG and considering all things like positioning looking for targets to Drain - enchants may pull you out of position - draining warriors all the time wont net you the best energy gain so what will happen is you will be pulled out of position to drain mid line targets twice if at the same time then thats longer you spend out of position and you will get punished for being there.

Not only that but your attention is on the enemy team loking for enchants / targets to edrain which in the cycle is once every 25 secs and using those two skills effectivly may take say 5 seconds - so whats happening is 20% of your time is doing something secondary.

During this time watching party bars is not the best way to catch spikes that are improvised - while you are edraining a midline target you will get hammered to the floor. Really one skill targeting the enemy is eneogh.

Of course if you want to make the argument that you personally are a Godly monk in terms of attention levels and battle-field awareness but I think not considering you go into RA/TA w/o ailment and COP. You need at least one of those skills if you intend to survive alone against a good team.

As for interface well it helps but note there are things which you absolutely MUST be doing as a monk and doing things that hinder your abilty to do those things for too long will mean that you will get punished for them.

Sam

Tingi · Jun 08, 2006, 10:36 AM // 10:36

This is wat me, and most people i know use:

15 Divine Favor
11 Prot
10 Inspiration

Divine Boon
Mantra of Recall/Energy Drain {E}
Inspired Hex
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Mend Condtion/Aielment

These 6 skills are wat i always hav on my skill list. The other 2 are preference:

Signet of Devotion
Contemplation of Purity
Prot Spirit
Holy Veil
Revealed Hex

Can be any 2 of these skills. Normally for GvG i run Sig of Devotion + Contemplation. (would usually use Prot Spirit but a rit does that job for me). But im thinking of taking out Contemplation and using Revealed Hex (same as Inspired Hex but factions double).

Dark Helmet · Jun 08, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Someone said Aegis is useless, and it is in PvP. But fighting lots of guys in PvE makes it awesome to take along. I also bring Distortion to FoW sometimes, when I'm getting whacked by a bunch of guys, and am low on energy. It recharges fast, and the penalty isn't bad when you're already drained. :P

And in a large group, Peace and Harmony can sometimes work to help with regen, instead of MoR.

Tensai · Jun 08, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

hey tan, or anyone, how did you get your stats that high? i never know how many major/sup runes to run (though i try to run 0 sup runes...dont know if you're running multiple ones or whatnot)

with 1 major divine, 1 minor prot, 1 minor divine, and divine scalp im at:
Divine 15
Prot 10
Insp 9

Tingi · Jun 08, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

i jst used a Sup Divine rune and minor Prot with divine scalp. Reduced divine favor to 15, so i hav 20 atrib points left over. Then put prot to 11 and ins to 10.

Maxiemonster · Jun 08, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by pegasux

well I ran Gift of Health and wow nice little spike heal for only 7 in health. i like it and it may just stay in my build now.

In my opinion, people are giving up too much for Gift of Health. Reversal of Fortune heals for 71 Health at 13 Protection Prayers, and Gift of Health for 78 Health at 7 Healing Prayers (and it's also a 1/2 second longer casting time, and a 3 second longer skill recharge), and putting 7 in Healing Prayers also recuses your other attributes. In my opinion, this skill isn't really worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Why would you want to maintain it? Why do you need another enchantment?

You're not maintaining it. You can use it for casting it on yourself to get 3 hexes removed (Divine Boon, Mantra of Recall, Holy Veil, with possibly a Guardian), which is great when suffering alot of Hexes. Also, you can cast it on yourself when you see someone casting Hex like Diversion on you, to avoid triggering it (even though Inspired Hex isn't even effected by Diversion, which rocks).

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

If you are getting energy drained...then this isn't going to help you much. You cannot survive long, nor can your team on this skill alone. That's why I'd rather have another inspired/reveled hex.

You might be stuck with 0 Energy for a while (or at least below 5 Energy), making it impossible for you to cast untill you get 5 Energy again, or your Mantra of Recall ends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chemmjr

my bar

Guadrian, RoF, H. Veil, Insp Hex, Dr Ench, Mend Cond, Boon, E Drain

As I'm always the one saying "Energy management is important!", you're overdoing it, 3 skill slots for Energy managment is just too much. This means you have no way to remove Dazed from yourself (as you're missing Contemplation of Purity), and don't have much to counter Energy denial (you don't have Signet of Devotion, and you can't use any of your Energy management skills without having Energy first).
Sorry, but this skill bar doesn't look that effective to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chemmjr

I usually precast veil (on myself and the wars) and wait until those really evil hexes are cast

That's a bit too much. Precasting Holy Veil is nice when you respond to large casting time spells (hence you know who it's being cast on), but otherwise, precasting it isn't all that great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chemmjr

Excellent edenial mesmers will always be a problem

Of course, but excellent players will always be a problem, not just Energy denial Mesmers. Just because they will always be a problem, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to counter them, and at least try to make yourself more defensive against them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

Maxiemonster, you did not explain your reasons for weapon sets 1 and 2, and how you use them.

Sorry, I had that in my guide a while back, but I guess I deleted it while editing by accident. I've edited it back in though, so I guess you should understand it now

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

Are there any better alternatives for sets 1 and 2?

This is what seems most effective to me, I always try to advice the best

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tan Blademaster

15 Divine Favor
11 Prot
10 Inspiration

Most people run these attributes, but I really wonder why. Please explain why you wouldn't run the attributes I run, as I've tried to explain why it's better, and I really can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be better.
Even though I think of it now, that if Reversal of Fortune isn't triggered, or Guardian being useless, these stats might be better, but I guess I shouldn't be thinking of that, as I don't remember seeing that happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tan Blademaster

Can be any 2 of these skills. Normally for GvG i run Sig of Devotion + Contemplation. (would usually use Prot Spirit but a rit does that job for me). But im thinking of taking out Contemplation and using Revealed Hex (same as Inspired Hex but factions double).

Switching out Contemplation of Purity means that you'll have to rely on the Hex/condition removal from your teammembers. So, never switch it out when splitting (one Monk on both sides), or when the Hex/condition removal isn't all that great (sine of course, the other Monk might be running a Hex/condition removal build, with Blessed Light for example).
I advice bringing at least one Protective Spirit when GvG'ing (if not two), but if a Ritualist takes over that job, that should be fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

And in a large group, Peace and Harmony can sometimes work to help with regen, instead of MoR

Depends. Peace and Harmony is pretty nice sometimes, as you can have it on 3 players, making that ~3 pips, compared to ~2 pips of Mantra of Recall, though, Contemplation of Purity ends your Energy management for a long time in some cases, you might not have 3 players to cast it on. I'm not a fan of Peace and Harmony though, so I wouldn't advice using it.

Oh, and I'd love some more responces to my attributes (13 Divine Favor, 13 Protection Prayers and 10 Inspiration Magic), as I still think it's great, but I still haven't had any opinions from others about it. Thanks

SnipiousMax · Jun 08, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

You're not maintaining it. You can use it for casting it on yourself to get 3 hexes removed (Divine Boon, Mantra of Recall, Holy Veil, with possibly a Guardian), which is great when suffering alot of Hexes. Also, you can cast it on yourself when you see someone casting Hex like Diversion on you, to avoid triggering it (even though Inspired Hex isn't even effected by Diversion, which rocks).

Yea as I played more with CoP, I caught on to that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

You might be stuck with 0 Energy for a while (or at least below 5 Energy), making it impossible for you to cast untill you get 5 Energy again, or your Mantra of Recall ends.

I fell under edenial finally (I don't pvp with my monk often...) and you were right. Sig of Devotion works like a dream.

ender6 · Jun 08, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I feel the trick to edenial is once you realize you are being targeted in this fashion immediately switch to your negative energy set. Someone needs a heal and you don't have any energy left with your negative set quickly switch to your regualr set cast a heal, and then switch back to negative energy set. TBH I am sure you could play this way 100% of the time to get into the mindset of being "energy secure".

IMHO -

As for your Attribute selections Maxie, I personally don't like putting sup runes on my monk. I don't feel the benefit you get from the extra heal justifies a lower health on your monk. The reason for this is simple, I don't feel as though the "e-mgnt" it offers (indirectly by higher heals) necessarily out weighs the need for my monk to be durable, and capable of withstanding harsh spikes. Plus I rarely run into emgnt problems. I try not to over cast I carry MoR/IH, and have 3 weapon sets that help me handle energy stressful situations.
All and all, the countless times not having dropped my health 75 has bailed me out is amazing.

Tensai · Jun 09, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

question: my current build for my pvp boon prot monk is:

RoF, Guardian, Mend Condition, Holy Veil, CoP, Energy Drain, and Boon...that leaves 1 skill slot left but im torn between insp hex or signet of devotion...any reasons for which i should go with? thx

MoR is nice and i switch it for edrain sometimes (in which case my insp goes from 9 to 10 and prot up/down one as well to compensate)

Zui · Jun 09, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

@Tensai, it depends on your team build, but if you're playing in a balanced team, or another kind of team that has hex removal spread throughout the team, I'd actualy drop Holy Veil for Inspired Hex, and then take Signet of Devotion. Of course, in such a team I'd probably be running a blinder, or some other form of melee-hate, so I'd probably ditch Guardian for Protective Spirit or Spirit Bond too... But like I said, it really does depend a whole lot on where you're playing, weither it be RA, TA, or GvG, what you expect to be up against(mainly for RA there's always some new gimmick fad there), what the rest of your team is running, and if there are any plans on your team for say splitting, and what end of the split you'll be on.

If you could post what you're planning on doing with your boonprot, weither it be TA, RA, GvG, whatever, and what the general makeup of your team, people could probably help you better. Your bar is always going to feel tight, if only there were 9 or 10 skill slots

.

Just genericly though, if you were to only choose between Inspired Hex and Signet of Devotion without looking at the team application and the rest of your bar, Signet of Devotion hands down. It's absolutly great against pressure from say hex degen etc, and unlike Inspired Hex it doesn't depend on having a hex for the energy, although it doesn't remove a hex either. Plus it's useful against energy denial, and it's a free heal anytime you're strapped on energy, or the target doesn't need an urgent heal.

Maxiemonster · Jun 09, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

As for your Attribute selections Maxie, I personally don't like putting sup runes on my monk. I don't feel the benefit you get from the extra heal justifies a lower health on your monk. The reason for this is simple, I don't feel as though the "e-mgnt" it offers (indirectly by higher heals) necessarily out weighs the need for my monk to be durable, and capable of withstanding harsh spikes. Plus I rarely run into emgnt problems. I try not to over cast I carry MoR/IH, and have 3 weapon sets that help me handle energy stressful situations.
All and all, the countless times not having dropped my health 75 has bailed me out is amazing.

Yep, I guess you're right, I already stopped using that Superior rune, but forgot to change it. But besides the rune, what do you think of my attributes? As it's still not the usual attribute set up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tensai

RoF, Guardian, Mend Condition, Holy Veil, CoP, Energy Drain, and Boon...that leaves 1 skill slot left but im torn between insp hex or signet of devotion...any reasons for which i should go with? thx

Signet of Devotion!