Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Jun 09, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Hmm, so nobody knows if Inspired Hex cancels the effect of Diversion huh?

[as in, it becomes the diverted hex for 20s. then turns back to a fully charged inspired Hex again]

ender6 · Jun 09, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

Yep, I guess you're right, I already stopped using that Superior rune, but forgot to change it. But besides the rune, what do you think of my attributes? As it's still not the usual attribute set up.

Signet of Devotion!

Well considering that my point spread is 13 Divine 11 prot 10 insp

Identical to your selection, I'd have to say I approve. I posted a thread yesterday with the intent of fleshing out what attribute points spread would serve a boon prot monk (PvP) the best. Here is what I had to say on that point selection:

"I've experimented with using superior and non superior and presonally I have found this to be the best suited for me. I don't like dropping my health in the least by adding superior runes (or even major). Every ounce of health I can have on my Monk is necessary and needed. I've been on the recieving end of some terrible spikes that have left me with under 50 points of health, and I acredit not carrying a Superior rune in divne/or prot to making the difference and leading to my success. Meanwhile I can heal just fine, never seem to run out of energy even if I am facing an edenial mesmer, in which case I am living by my negative energy set; bottom line is the extra heal i get from a higher divine really doesn't seem to translate into energy mangement for me. I think a 10 in insp is a must for the energy returns you get on MoR and IH. I also feel that 11 prot is adequate, I think a ~40% on gaurdian does the job."

I hope that helps address your question. Also in 4v4 in never carry signet of devotion. I would take prot spirit in place of it. Just another thing for you to consider. I realize you like the heal it offers and the energy management, but the cast time, is just to unbearable for me. Too many interrupts, too many ppl targeting me. In GvG it is an entirely different story.

ender6 · Jun 09, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Hmm, so nobody knows if Inspired Hex cancels the effect of Diversion huh?

[as in, it becomes the diverted hex for 20s. then turns back to a fully charged inspired Hex again]

That's exactly what it does, and that is why it is uneffected by Diversion.

pah01 · Jun 09, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Inspired hex interacts in aweird way with diversion.

If you use inspired hex w/o managing to inspire a hex - while diversion is on you diversion will actually affect the cooldown of inspired hex.

However if you inspire a hex other than diversion while diversion affects the cooldown of the hex you inspired and after 20 seconds you will get inspired hex back as normal.

If you try to inspire diversion of of yourself than diversion will effect the cooldown of inspired hex.

Sam

pah01 · Jun 09, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

I hope that helps address your question. Also in 4v4 in never carry signet of devotion. I would take prot spirit in place of it. Just another thing for you to consider. I realize you like the heal it offers and the energy management, but the cast time, is just to unbearable for me. Too many interrupts, too many ppl targeting me. In GvG it is an entirely different story.

In 4v4 I would recomend the opposite - not to bring protective spirit. It really is not needed in a 4v4 situation. Signet of devotion is more than adequate for 4v4. I would hazard to say that is almost required in GVG when energy management and being abale to heal under energy denial and under pressure are important.

Then again Monks already have a vicious fight to get a decent skillbar - However at least one of your monks should be taking the signet into GVG. Otehrwise you wont be able to cope with pressure at all.

Sam

Maxiemonster · Jun 09, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

If you try to inspire diversion of of yourself than diversion will effect the cooldown of inspired hex.

I never knew that.. Thanks

And like pah said, I'd always take Signet of Devotion to RA/TA, as it's great there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender06

Well considering that my point spread is 13 Divine 11 prot 10 insp...

Yay, someone who agrees!

Thanks.

ender6 · Jun 09, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

In 4v4 I would recomend the opposite - not to bring protective spirit. It really is not needed in a 4v4 situation. Signet of devotion is more than adequate for 4v4. I would hazard to say that is almost required in GVG when energy management and being abale to heal under energy denial and under pressure are important.

Then again Monks already have a vicious fight to get a decent skillbar - However at least one of your monks should be taking the signet into GVG. Otehrwise you wont be able to cope with pressure at all.

Sam

As I stated I agree with the GvG scenario. But in a 4v4 scenario I have to disagree. Allow me to elaborate:

When I am pressured by say KD warrior/and another heavy hitting attack type, sig of devotion won't stand a chance of any use, meanwhile not only can I get off a prot spirit, it will also be long lasting that usually translates into e-management not to mention keeping me alive. If I notice a spike in effect, (non necro) Prot Spirit instantly can save the person from the spike, and once again help with e-mangement.

I find as a monk in a 4v4 build there is always dmg pressuree that I am facing and the cast time of Sig Devotion makes it a wasted skill on my skill bar.

Now if you are including it for times when you are facing edenial pressure, or diversion pressure, etc, I still think working off of my negative energy set is far superior to placing signet of devotion on my skill bar. Especially when I will often be faced with the dual scenario where edenial is in effect and i am getting bombarded with dmg. Prot spirit FTW in my oppinion. Sig of Devotion just loses its effectiveness with a slow cast time in the face of a spike or constant KD's and interrupts-- I just don't get to use it.

Now this is simply my experience with including signet of devotion on my skill bar, perhaps you and others who like it have had better experiences with it.

pah01 · Jun 09, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Well my experience in 4v4 a booned reversal will save all spikes there. Even ones with kd chain in. Gaurdian is more than sufficient to save you from a single hammer or thumper and if they have more you fear pressure more than spikes.

When you fear pressure you need something efficient hence signet of devotion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender

Now if you are including it for times when you are facing edenial pressure, or diversion pressure, etc, I still think working off of my negative energy set is far superior to placing signet of devotion on my skill bar.

I include signet of devotion for working under e-denial, for efficiently dealing with pressure - Its efficiency is infinte BTW - It is too good to not bring in 4v4.

Working into your reserves when you dont have to is simply a bad attitude and you will get punished for doing that by good teams.
Sam

SnipiousMax · Jun 09, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

^ Since I use my Monk in PvE as well, what's a nifty spell to switch Sig of Devotion out for when I play missions/Quests? E denial isn't too common amongst the random mobs.

Maxiemonster · Jun 10, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Switch out Protective Spirit for Signet of Devotion in PvE. Those bosses really know how to spike, and 10% of someone's Health isn't 300 damage most of the times, which I've seen Elementalist bosses deal.

Kareem · Jun 12, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Any alternatives to the weapon sets you have listed above? Would any of the pvp only weapons available when creating a pvp character suffice?

Zui · Jun 12, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

If you're going for PvP-only boonprot, and don't plan to buy any extra items for use I'd go with a "normal" energy set, +5 sword/axe and +12 focus(mods depend on pereference), a staff(20/20 prot), wand and a +12 focus(mods depend on pereference), are the common setups for this that you'll see, and a - energy set, use a -5 sword/axe and a +45 -2 enchanted shield.

That's probably the best you can get from just rolling a PvP in terms of weapons.

JR · Jun 12, 2006, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

That's exactly what it does, and that is why it is uneffected by Diversion.

Just to clear this up;

Diversion lands on you, and you use Inspired Hex to take it off. Inspired Hex will be Diverted.

Diversion lands on you, and then some other hex. You use Inspired Hex take off the second hex, Diversion also ends because it has been triggered by the use of a skill. Inspired Hex is not Diverted.

Diversion lands on you, and you use Inspired Hex to take a hex off someone else. Diversion also ends because it has been triggered by the use of a skill. Inspired Hex is not Diverted.

So basicly; you can use Inspired to take off any hex other than the Diversion it's self, and you will cause it to end without the negative effect.

Forry Fisher · Jun 12, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I use exactly the same build, sig of devotion is a blessing when fighting heavy degen teams in TA. but because of that heavy degen encounter, i swapped it for channeling.. i remember having malaise, wither, lifesiphon, poison, deep wound, cripple and on top of that an annoying edenial mesmer! oh and did i forget to mention they had a blackout ranger/mesmer?

I was never the same person after that

ender6 · Jun 12, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

@JR & Pah01: thank you for giving a detailed and concise description of IH's effectiveness with Diversion. I Actually had a match the other day where IH'd diversion off of a teammate, and since we were in the cleaning up stage of the match i decided to cast it on the Mesmer, knowing it was a waste of my energy. The mesmer with FC casted diversion on me before I got mine off. Was an amusing turn of events as my diversion was diversion'd.

@Pah01: Perhaps I was a little too vague when I said switching to my negative energy set, what I meant by that was my hidden weapon set (effectively taking my energy from 47 to 25 SEE note at bottom). If you still think that is an inefficent/ or ineffective way to handle edenial, so be it. As for your championing of Signet of Devotion in 4v4 matches so be it, I disagree. I don't think this somehow means I have a "bad attitude". Attitude has nothing to do with this conversation. As I stated several times now, I find Signet of Devotion to be ineffective against good teams. And against poor teams, I never have e-problems so there really is no need for Signet of Devotion. You consider Prot Spirit to be a waste. I disagree. I'm recieving 100+pts of dmg in a series of non stop attacks, and prot cuts that in half. That to me translates into survival and e management. You've never faced the scenario I am describing? The I would wager you probably play on more effective teams than I. Regardless, I have found Prot Spirit to be a must in my build. And a worthy option for those who are reading this thread.

*Note: I carry 3 weapon sets:
1) Normal one gives 47 energy (+3 e regen with boon on) normal use.
2) Hidden one gives 25 energy (+3 e regen with boon on) used when facing edenial.
3) High one gives 62 energy (+2 e regen with boon on) used in emergencies.

SnipiousMax · Jun 12, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

^^ What is the normal attribute spread, (the one different than maxie's).

Is it 15 Divine Favor, 9 protection, and 10 inspiration?

Tensai · Jun 12, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

hm, i dont like using any sup or major runes, and my attribute spread atm is:
Divine: 14 (12+1+1)
Protection: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration: 9

i use energy drain btw instead of MoR. i suppose you COULD take 1 point from prot and put it into divine but iunno...

pah01 · Jun 12, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

@Pah01: Perhaps I was a little too vague when I said switching to my negative energy set, what I meant by that was my hidden weapon set (effectively taking my energy from 47 to 25 SEE note at bottom). If you still think that is an inefficent/ or ineffective way to handle edenial, so be it. As for your championing of Signet of Devotion in 4v4 matches so be it, I disagree. I don't think this somehow means I have a "bad attitude". Attitude has nothing to do with this conversation. As I stated several times now, I find Signet of Devotion to be ineffective against good teams. And against poor teams, I never have e-problems so there really is no need for Signet of Devotion. You consider Prot Spirit to be a waste. I disagree. I'm recieving 100+pts of dmg in a series of non stop attacks, and prot cuts that in half. That to me translates into survival and e management. You've never faced the scenario I am describing? The I would wager you probably play on more effective teams than I. Regardless, I have found Prot Spirit to be a must in my build. And a worthy option for those who are reading this thread.

*Note: I carry 3 weapon sets:
1) Normal one gives 47 energy (+3 e regen with boon on) normal use.
2) Hidden one gives 25 energy (+3 e regen with boon on) used when facing edenial.
3) High one gives 62 energy (+2 e regen with boon on) used in emergencies.

Right back at you

Ok I think I may not have been clear about why I think there is a need for the signet of devotion in a 4v4 match. I am going to relate a TA build to a GVG one mainly because I hope you will see exactly where I am coming from.

In a GVG build chances are your build will contain most if not all of these things.

Ether prodigy powered heal party
Fast Cast Remove Hex
Blood Ritual, maybe even BIP.
Draw conditions on a */mo. (sometimes now an extinguish)

This is all the support you receive along with the fact that you are not alone and considering that fatal damage can come instantly there are a number of skills that must be on your bar if you want to even call yourself monk.

Your job is to heal pressure and to save against spikes and your team is providing all the support you can get. Eles will blind warriors hopefullyjust before they try and knockdown, your mesmers will hopefully blackout the ranger who is wandering in to blackout you and so on and so forth.

It is also common knowledge that boon prots are very weak against pressure. They run out of energy much easier than other kinds of monks and spend much more energy.

Transfer all this to 4v4.

Well chances are the support you are getting is minimal. Commonly you will see teams with just one secondary monk in the team and he/she will probably be drawing the blinds of your warrior or thumper.

You are now going to be forced into healing all the pressure that gets exerted on you.

The situation you described - getting beat on in a series of attacks dealing 100+ damage and you need prot spirit to negate it. Well I have found that when I speced to defeat such situations in 4v4 I didnt have the energy to cope for very long. Degen and simple thumper pressure just wore you down.
I have found that the reduction in numbers made just bringing reversal and gaurdian was sufficient.

What I found over a period was simply that the signet of devotion allowed me as a monk to cope with that pressure much better than before and by dropping the prot spirit - booned reversal was more than eneogh to save a team member from attempted spikes because it is only 3 damagers in general, and just like in GVG if you are the target - pre kiting and your TEAM's (other monk plus defensive characters) response which saves you.

As for working under e-denial, well the enemy has got better. They will now surge/burn you when you are casting and catch you in your normal set. Having a negative set is not the only answer now.

My justifications for signet of devotion regarding e-denial is the fact that you can do something at zero energy while in your negative set. However this is not so common in TA - edenial so my argument just rests on eficiency and coping with the pressure that some teams can dish out.

Anyway considering the new classes - especially the assasin whose attacks are not reduced that much at al by protective spirit I just dont feel that Prot Spirit can fit on your bar in 4v4. If you must bring it then IMO you probably want to force your blinder or whatever to carry a heal other or have a blood rit there for you because otherwise you wil find that not having a free infinitly efficient heal will hurt.

Sam

ender6 · Jun 13, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

@Pah01 -- I appreciate your detailed explanations, very clear. I think the biggest difference between our two scenarios is that I am currently between guilds and find myself in PUG teams, which expect the monk to take care of everything. I think if I had the proper support on my team, I would go with Signet of Devotion and drop Prot Spirit. Heck even after hearing your detailed analysis I might do it. There have been times when I have been completely sapped of energy and wished I had signet of Devotion. Still not sure if I want to take PS off of my skill bar, but I do appreciate the detailed explanation.

The latest problem I have been encountering in TA isn't edenial, but rather skill usage denial. I've been facing teams with a KD/Blackout combo mesmer. Literally I have been on my ass or blacked out to the extent that I get to cast one spell in ~15 sec intervals. Just plain silly. So Prot Spirit here is far more effective. In addition, I have to rely on my teammates to carry the match since I have been effectively neutralized. Any thoughts on how to counter this one? That's the problem with being a boon prot monk, tough to adjust your skill bar to account for situatial occurences without weakening the effectiveness of your skillbar in general.

SnipiousMax · Jun 13, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

^ I'm having trouble getting around blackout, too. I usually just turn tail and run when I see it coming from across the map. But in the heat of things, its sometime shard to avoid.