Curse

Jetdoc · Jun 07, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

The problem is, people arn't relying on the monks to monk...

"especially if you're facing opponents that penalize you for attacking (e.g. Empathy, Spiteful Spirit, etc.)."

Then the monk removes the hex...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I think the main thrust of this thread is attacking a warrior that brings any sort of self healing other than healing signet.

Case in point.

AceeBlueEagle · Jun 07, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

I don't hate Wammos.... heck I have one. (or W/N, W/Me)

But when a wammo uses mending, it is a warning sign that the group is 'at risk'. By that I mean a lot of the time it is misused and tanks try to be a one man band and charge out and aggro everything in Tyria/Cantha.

It can be effectively used like anything else.

But take mending + "GOGOGOGOGO" + "I can self heal" + "I have rebirth no worries" = Train Wreck

jummeth · Jun 07, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Definitely a misunderstanding - I thought you were saying that a warrior did not have "space" in his skillbar for monk self-healing skills. You believe that attack-based heals such as Live Vicariously and Vigorous Spirit are more "efficient" heals than the passive gain from Mending. I find that in many situations Mending may actually be more efficient, especially if you're facing opponents that penalize you for attacking (e.g. Empathy, Spiteful Spirit, etc.).

Again, it's all up to preference on what passive heals you want to take, but I think the main thrust of this thread is attacking a warrior that brings any sort of self healing other than healing signet.

Urgh give me a break, if you have a warrior in somewhere where there is heavy warrior hate its obviously less effective, mending or not.

Then we can argue that enchants are generally bad, they can be shattered, with the AI code they will be shattered the second you put it on. Spike healing... expensive, what if the area is heavy e-degen.

I think what we are saying is that mending for the vast majority of the game (except for some certain farming areas, ie. 55; if you can rage-mend farm an area, you can 55 that area better) is pretty much useless.

I am gonna act a little elitist now, yes, experianced players do dislike to see mending, because we know the little effect it has. When I see my pug using mending, I don't think, oh good, he has more survivability. No I think "ffs, that guy will probably kill that damn e-draining mesmer slower and it will probably get an extra edrain out."

Evilsod · Jun 07, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Jetdoc... theres a difference between a Warrior who brings Mending to heal and a Warrior who brings Healing Signet.

The 1 with Mending survives a shed load of niggly bits of damage

The 1 with Healing Signet takes a bit, then heals himself back up when he feels fit.

Now put these 2 in areas where they obviously are too dim to realise how useful the skill is.

Mending, the mesmer spams Degen, Shatters his enchantment and as half of the warriors with mending do, recast it.... then get Power Spiked or just shattered again.

Healing Signet, he gets degened and heals it off when it starts to dig in.

There is nothing wrong with Mending as such, its just people don't know when to us it! The number of people who cast it on Chest Runs it just makes you wonder if they've realised the first group of enemies you run through will Shatter it instantly. When your solo farming, fair enough, its brilliant (not for all areas obviously). When your going round FoW or UW with a full team? What is wrong with you!?
If you have an even slightly competant monk with you, mending shouldn't matter, by leaving stat points out of Tactics to bring Mending instead, you could've used that slot to bring Watch Yourself, benefiting your entire team, not just yourself.

I haven't been paying attention to the threads related to Warrior armours, but no i didn't know that Knights bonus' didn't stack, i also didn't know that when i bought it.
BUT as you rightly said, i did buy it for looks, i have absolutely no use for the +1 Strength on the helm in just about every situation i can think of, but the rest of the helms look absolutely shit in all honesty (female warrior btw). 15k Gladiators Leggings/Hauberk ftw

Its my only char i bought the armour mainly to look good on.

Jetdoc · Jun 07, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Well when you have a good monk backline you shouldn't have to worry about something like mending, because the heals are going to be there. If you're pugging though? Who knows. Sometimes you get a monk who knows what's up, sometimes you get a guy who spams Healing Breeze on people at full heath then screams about energy problems.

Look at it this way. As a warrior in a pug, your #1 job is to keep yourself alive. While that's actually everyone's #1 job, it's also what people expect you to do, so there's little reason not to make it your #1 priority. With a solid backline you can rely on your natural durability more and focus on damage ala Tiger's Fury...but if I can't expect my monks to not suck, I'm not willing to trust my own healing to Signet + kiting when there are lots of dudes around. When you look at your healing options after Signet, Mending is the best one available. You do not have a lot of energy, and Mending is the most efficient one you can get in terms of energy invested, and absolutely the best one on time. In the situation you're looking at it's actually the best skill available.

The bad reputation comes from people seeing that success, and translating that into it being good everywhere, when that clearly isn't the case. Is it more efficient than pumping Dolyak Signet? Probably, I mean, 8 points in healing, presumably just for Mending, certainly beats dumping a lot of points into strength just for Dolyak Signet. Maxing your attributes isn't really key for a PvE warrior, you can branch into four lines without problem really.

Peace,
-CxE

Again, I think that Ensign put it very articulately (is that a word?) here.

I'm not trying to advocate that every warrior should carry Mending in a group PvE setting. But I am definitely not of the opinion (which many are) that Mending has absolutely no use in a group PvE setting, especially when you are participating in PuGs with questionable monking.

It seems that blanket statements tend to follow any sort of Mending discussion, which to me is more theoretical than practical when you actually take time to analyze the skill. But neither here nor there...there is very little further analysis that can be provided that will change the minds of those that are categorically opposed to the skill.

elektra_lucia · Jun 07, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

"Originally Posted by Jetdoc
I think the main thrust of this thread is attacking a warrior that brings any sort of self healing other than healing signet."

Then instead of bringing your mending, you bring one extra attack skill... You are now more powerful than him, your monk heals you, he dies...

If it's 1vs1, you could bring riposte or something, let him kill himself?

Stockholm · Jun 07, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

your monk heals you,

If we just lived in a perfect world, but we don't

elektra_lucia · Jun 07, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Henchmen heal me just fine. If they don't, I can get a friend too...

You've honestly no monk friends who help out?

jummeth · Jun 07, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

If we just lived in a perfect world, but we don't

And mending will save you from a totally incompetant team?

I don't understand the argument of, "rubbish monks around, therefore I bring self heal =>(implys) Mending"
There are other better self heals than mending. Therefore its inferior in a PvE setting, outside of very special situations.

Stockholm · Jun 07, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

And mending will save you from a totally incompetant team?

I don't understand the argument of, "rubbish monks around, therefore I bring self heal =>(implys) Mending"
There are other better self heals than mending. Therefore its inferior in a PvE setting, outside of very special situations.

That is your opinion, I might not agrea with it but I'm not screaming N00b at you for that.

There is some bad and some good monks.
And for me mending is a better selfheal than the altenatives yes, but that is for me, I'm not saying that everyone has to like it. But start screaming and verbaly abuse me during a mission for using it, (witch a lot off ppl do), I play for fun and will not tolerate some self proclaimed "uber" player ruin that.
Most other self heals have either to long a cast time or -xx armor or both, IMO.

elektra_lucia · Jun 07, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

If you need a monk, msg me, I guess? Might end up regretting saying that =P Had like 3 billion PM's once =P.

If I'm not in the mood, or don't wanna monk at that place, don't feel I won't help you again... I might help if I feel bored or something though, is worth asking if you want^^.

jesh · Jun 08, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

That is your opinion, I might not agrea with it but I'm not screaming N00b at you for that.

There is some bad and some good monks.
And for me mending is a better selfheal than the altenatives yes, but that is for me, I'm not saying that everyone has to like it. But start screaming and verbaly abuse me during a mission for using it, (witch a lot off ppl do), I play for fun and will not tolerate some self proclaimed "uber" player ruin that.
Most other self heals have either to long a cast time or -xx armor or both, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

The problem is, people arn't relying on the monks to monk...

"especially if you're facing opponents that penalize you for attacking (e.g. Empathy, Spiteful Spirit, etc.)."

Then the monk removes the hex...?

The monks that bring hex removal in regular PvE are very very very rare. A lot of times in PvE, Remove Hex just feels like a waste, but I guess with factions out, there are a couple alternatives for the Mo/Me out there, and the pure healers. I can count the times I've seen a monk in PvE remove a hex, and all those times it was me.

As for mending being the better self heal, there is one instance that I can think of where it makes a nice way for a monk to keep you alive - dwayna's kiss. Though I suppose that vigorous/vicarious do the same in this case.
Also, if there's a lot of blind/reckless haste being thrown around, mending would probably be a more efficient heal in that case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

If you have an even slightly competant monk with you, mending shouldn't matter, by leaving stat points out of Tactics to bring Mending instead, you could've used that slot to bring Watch Yourself, benefiting your entire team, not just yourself.

I agree with your post, except this part. Watch Yourself! does *not* have a huge range. You may benefit another tank, perhaps a suicidal caster, but in general this skill will never reach your back lines. I just thought I'd say this, since so many people seem to think it's an Aegis for warriors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Definitely a misunderstanding - I thought you were saying that a warrior did not have "space" in his skillbar for monk self-healing skills. You believe that attack-based heals such as Live Vicariously and Vigorous Spirit are more "efficient" heals than the passive gain from Mending. I find that in many situations Mending may actually be more efficient, especially if you're facing opponents that penalize you for attacking (e.g. Empathy, Spiteful Spirit, etc.).

Again, it's all up to preference on what passive heals you want to take, but I think the main thrust of this thread is attacking a warrior that brings any sort of self healing other than healing signet.

I find that blind actually hurts more than any of the things that you've mentioned. If you're missing, you can't get the adrenaline that you need to keep your build alive.

SS has the same power as Empathy in most cases, and this build will actually just keep hacking through it, without worry. My little brother solos riverside for fun with it, that includes the mesmers and necros.

jummeth · Jun 08, 2006, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

I find that blind actually hurts more than any of the things that you've mentioned. If you're missing, you can't get the adrenaline that you need to keep your build alive.

SS has the same power as Empathy in most cases, and this build will actually just keep hacking through it, without worry. My little brother solos riverside for fun with it, that includes the mesmers and necros.

You just said it there, wouldn't the slot be better filled with purge conditions or remove hex?

Anyway, any competant monk will remove the condition almost as soon as it is put on, double time if you call the blind on yourself.

elektra_lucia · Jun 08, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Shock FTW^^

Senator Tom · Jun 08, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

You just said it there, wouldn't the slot be better filled with purge conditions or remove hex?

Anyway, any competant monk will remove the condition almost as soon as it is put on, double time if you call the blind on yourself.

i usually find that i have cleared the whole chat except for 'I have Blind on me!' :P

Jetdoc · Jun 08, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

SS has the same power as Empathy in most cases, and this build will actually just keep hacking through it, without worry. My little brother solos riverside for fun with it, that includes the mesmers and necros.

The main difference there is that both Live Vicariously and Vigorous Spirit require you to attack (or do something) to gain the healing benefit, while Mending does not. As a result, if you're blinded, you continue to get the benefit from the two spells, but if you have a damage-causing hex on you, the health gain from these two enchantments is generally offset by the damage by the hex.

Don't get me wrong - I often run a no-energy build that uses both Mending and Live Vicariously and I love the effects. I think there are some situations, however, where Mending might be preferable to those two enchantments, however.

jummeth · Jun 08, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

i usually find that i have cleared the whole chat except for 'I have Blind on me!' :P

wouldn't purge conditions have been clever =O

When you're blind, your not attacking, so you might as well use heal sig.

If you have a curses necro sitting on you, mending or not, you shouldn't attack through it, unless its a spike. Again if you're not attacking, you will find Heal Sig better.

Mr_eX · Jun 08, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

My warrior almost never dies--she certainly dies the least out of all of my characters--and she doesn't use Mending.

Typically, Healing Signet with a decent rank in Tactics is good enough for most situations, but a Warrior's ace for staying alive in the face of incompotence is IWAY. There have been multiple instances where everybody in my party has died, except for me. I simply cast IWAY, use my +83945734% attack speed to charge up Watch Yourself and Defy Pain, and then I saunter out of aggro range while my 70 seconds of +7 health regen keeps me alive as the monsters stop chasing me. I then slowly Rebirth everybody, thus saving the party and eventually completing the mission.

Enchantments on front-line tanks can and will be stripped, but there's nothing that enemy casters can do about skills, shouts, and stances that have an instant casting time cannot be removed by spellcasters.

elektra_lucia · Jun 08, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

If your team dies first when you're infront of them apparently "tanking", what is the point of "tanking"? You might as well just bring attack and interupt skills...

Mr_eX · Jun 08, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

If your team dies first when you're infront of them apparently "tanking", what is the point of "tanking"? You might as well just bring attack and interupt skills...

Clearly, a tank can only really serve its purpose--holding all aggro outside of the casters' aggro radius--when the party is compotent.