Curse

jummeth · Jun 05, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

the speed buff is for canceling frenzy.

heal sig is for out of battle heals or countering degen.

Stockholm · Jun 05, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Mending has it's uses in PvE, don't know about PvP.
When fighting large mob's like in factions a W/M with mending don't have to stop and self heal and if the foe shatters it well thats one wasted spell that might have given the monk or bonder a few sec extra, and energy, I useally use all adrenaline skill's exept 100 blades(5 eng.)
Doing Visunha Squere (first time) Mhenlo and Togo where getting low on HP and Monks where not paying attention so I cast mending on both and let them heal a bit.

It's team work and sometimes mending is usefull (not an fix everything) in PvE.

Unfortunatly a lot of ppl think that since it's not used in PvP it has to be a bad skill. Well every skill has it's uses if used right.

Heal Sig to me is a bad skill, opens me up to a lot off damage during 2 sec cast time + plus I'm not doing any damage during the same time (+hp -40 armor -recived dmg/2sec -given dmg) seams the overall loss is to high with heal sig.
VS is a good alternative to mending unless you fight foe's that uses blind or dazzed etc. since you only get healing from hit's not swings.
We have to stop comparing skill's in PvP vs PvE since the group set up is very different. And calling another player N00b because he/she has found a built they are comfertble playing, that is a lot off BS and causes a lot off badblood.

Stockholm · Jun 05, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

I get antsy every time I see a wammo, or even a monk using mending.

I get antsy every time I see PvP rank in PvE, but thats not the end of the world. Perhaps you should try and relax and play the "Game" for what it's supposed to be FUN. So what if you get wiped out, just start over and I bet it was something more than the Wammo using mending that got the group wiped out.

Bloodied Blade · Jun 05, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

I'll just cut through the formalities here:

People hate mending because most W/Mo's who use it believe that they can do anything they want and end up being useless (or worse) to the team. Mending is a decent skill on its own.

The best post that I saw though was someone retaliating against someone bashing mending saying:
"Oh, so I guess all 55s are noobs then?" ...Funniest. Post. Ever.

dansamy · Jun 06, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I had a PvE mending WaMo in Nahpui ask me for blood rit and then tell me that he hated what mending did to his energy but it "keeps me alive so good". Mmmmhmmm. And just WTF do you think the monk is doing? Hmmm?

Don Zardeone · Jun 06, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

I get antsy every time I see PvP rank in PvE, but thats not the end of the world. Perhaps you should try and relax and play the "Game" for what it's supposed to be FUN. So what if you get wiped out, just start over and I bet it was something more than the Wammo using mending that got the group wiped out.

Hmmm, any group that gets wiped out in pve is usually crap or is extremely unlucky.

I henched through factions on my warrior but on my monk I did a few pugs.
All that is being said about wammos (read: bad players, there's some "good W/Mos out there... maybe 2 or 3) is true.
They are crap.

Mending doesn't make them crap, neither does heal breeze. The fact that they have mending is only a SIGN that they are crap. Just like it is a sign that a tyrian warrior in full knights armour is probably crap too.

So mending itself isn't crap. it has its uses. But the people who use mending are usually crap.
So in a way, we don't hate mending, just the people who use mending! =D

Stockholm · Jun 06, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

I henched through factions on my warrior

What self heal did you use then? because the healers in faction is tanking more than any Wammo I'v seen so far.

Avarre · Jun 06, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Healing sig is the best selfheal for a PvE war generally.

Mending = +3 at 9 healing, waste of points that could have gone into defensive purposes, rather than shatterfodder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

So in a way, we don't hate mending, just the people who use mending! =D

Everyone loves mending. Especially echoed!

Don Zardeone · Jun 06, 2006, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Heal sig.

For my warrior I started off using a W/E build with armor of earth but after noticing the tanking of henchies I swapped to an adrenaline based battle rage build for axe.
I swapped to W/Mo only for rebirth.

I didn't hench all of factions. For vizunah square, unwaking waters and the last part I used people. But for the rest, everything. I did it with hench.

Eh lets see..
Battle rage, a bunch of adrenaline attacks, watch yourself, heal sig, res sig/rebirth.
The fun thing about armor of earth is that it gives you a lot of extra armour but it doesn't slow you down that much. But on a W/Mo you can still use dolyak.

Heal sig lowers your armour by 40 for 2 seconds... That's what keeps most wammos from using it.

My warrior is set up quite defensively.
90 al base + shield + absorbs from everywhere + weapon + 20 al from WY + 40 from dolyak/AoE = 181 al. (I turned the absorb into al for convenience. I gave it 10 al but it's probably worth around 40 but still whatever)
So I have 181 al. All hench around me have an additional +20 al
If I use heal sig I'll have 141 al (or 131 if you don't take the absorbs I added as 10)

Now lets see what the crap wammo does...
80 al base (they'll use knights or glads but no dragons since dragons doesn't give many shiny bonuses), +16 from shield. They'll probably use a fortitude mod or some sundering crap.
They have basically 96 al.
If they use heal sig, they'll have 56 al.

141 vs 56.

Now if anyone wants to complain about the +al vs physical... It would only turn it into 151 vs 76 and I would still have more than double.

So a warrior without wasted slots on /Mo selfheals can maintain high defense.
A warrior with slots wasted on selfheals will either lack slots for defense or for offense.

Take your pick..

Senator Tom · Jun 06, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Healing sig is the best selfheal for a PvE war generally.

Mending = +3 at 9 healing, waste of points that could have gone into defensive purposes, rather than shatterfodder.

Everyone loves mending. Especially echoed!

+3 at 8 acctually. +4 at 13, +5 at 18.

would you rather have points in protection for an effective life barrier? or put them somewhere else because its just shatterfodder. all enchantments are shatterfodder, with the exception of spellbreaker of course

Avarre · Jun 06, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

would you rather have points in protection for an effective life barrier? or put them somewhere else because its just shatterfodder. all enchantments are shatterfodder, with the exception of spellbreaker of course

I'd put them in tactics/str, because as mentioned many times already, stances that block or skills that give + armor are a thousand times more effective than the use of energy and stat points in healing.

Evilsod · Jun 06, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

Just like it is a sign that a tyrian warrior in full knights armour is probably crap too.

Huh? My warrior wears 3 part Knights

Draxx · Jun 06, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Yeah well alot of people have there oppinion on Mending, But the point is its worthless in PVE Coop or PVP anyway.

I used to swear by mending but ONLY when Solo'ing or Farming. same with healing breeze and even Vicariously. But all are now dropped. personally i think more than the worry about altering your DPS i would worry about wasteing Attribute Points on Healing Prayers.

If i take monk skills i use Watchful spirit and Balthazar's Spirit as the rate of energy gained on Balthazar's Spirit doesnt make a diff with your Smiting its all good, that way your DPS isnt affected anyway,

you can still use your Vamp Weapons and keep your energy up, i mean if your that concerned take Bonetti's Aswel, thats what i would do.and i can farm most of factions no problem WITHOUT changing my setup.

I know this will recieve alot of flack perhaps aswel, but it works, SOD your energy Regen if your getting it per hit anyway and still NOT using a Zealous Weapon.

Its Allllllll Good!

LightningHell · Jun 06, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Huh? My warrior wears 3 part Knights

You are wearing it for the looks, are you not? Hopefully so.

EDIT: Might just as well tell you the reason, even though the whole community knows anyways. KNIGHTS BONUSES DON'T STACK.

jummeth · Jun 06, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

+3 at 8 acctually. +4 at 13, +5 at 18.

would you rather have points in protection for an effective life barrier? or put them somewhere else because its just shatterfodder. all enchantments are shatterfodder, with the exception of spellbreaker of course

If you really don't need the 1 pip in energy, give it to somebody who does.

Succor - Target other ally get 1 pip of e-regen and 1 pip of health regen.

A booner with 4 pips does make a difference, likewise a active prot or healer.
Best thing about it? No need to waste attribute points.

jesh · Jun 07, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I'd rather have my warriors take Tiger's Fury than anything in the monk lines, and have them chop people down with Triple Chop and Cyclone Axe, but that is neither here nor there.

Oh my, TF in pve? That's so useful. I can see cyclone for adrenaline gain, but TF? You yourself said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Look at it this way. As a warrior in a pug, your #1 job is to keep yourself alive.

Flurry ftw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Well when you have a good monk backline you shouldn't have to worry about something like mending, because the heals are going to be there. If you're pugging though? Who knows. Sometimes you get a monk who knows what's up, sometimes you get a guy who spams Healing Breeze on people at full heath then screams about energy problems.

Look at it this way. As a warrior in a pug, your #1 job is to keep yourself alive. While that's actually everyone's #1 job, it's also what people expect you to do, so there's little reason not to make it your #1 priority. With a solid backline you can rely on your natural durability more and focus on damage ala Tiger's Fury...but if I can't expect my monks to not suck, I'm not willing to trust my own healing to Signet + kiting when there are lots of dudes around. When you look at your healing options after Signet, Mending is the best one available. You do not have a lot of energy, and Mending is the most efficient one you can get in terms of energy invested, and absolutely the best one on time. In the situation you're looking at it's actually the best skill available.

The bad reputation comes from people seeing that success, and translating that into it being good everywhere, when that clearly isn't the case. Is it more efficient than pumping Dolyak Signet? Probably, I mean, 8 points in healing, presumably just for Mending, certainly beats dumping a lot of points into strength just for Dolyak Signet. Maxing your attributes isn't really key for a PvE warrior, you can branch into four lines without problem really.

Peace,
-CxE

*Ahem*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Just how many attack skills do you need? Do you REALLY need to bring Eviscerate, Executioner's Strike, Penetrating Attack, Power Attack, Wild Blow, AND Disrupting Chop? Isn't leaving some of these skills idle just as bad as taking up a slot for Mending in your mind?

You have plenty of room to use your attack skills efficiently and wisely as well, and carry enough defense and self-healing to provide enough protection for yourself.

I normally find myself carrying 3-4 attack skills and utilizing them to their fullest. This provides an excellent balance between attacking and defense.

What the heck is this? Where did you get that I take PvP warriors to PvE? Look. If I played a w/mo this is what I would run.

15 Strength
14/12 Axe
5+1 Tactics
6/9 Healing
leftover in Smiting for extra adrenaline gain?

Defy Pain {E}
Dolyak Signet
Watch Yourself!
Live Vicariously
Vigorous Spirit
Cyclone Axe
Balthazar's Spirit
Flurry

Sure it has enchants, but there aren't many efficient self heals in the monk line that *aren't*. I'd rather run W/N for sexy condition removal and curses. Take out the enchants and add Healing Signet, Enfeebling Blood, and Shields Up!/Bonetti's Defense/Plague Touch/Shadow of Fear. Reset attribute to:

9 Curses
13 Strength
4 Axe
10 Tactics

Oh and for those of you bad at math, that's 80+20+16+5+20+20+36 armor, and -2-3-1 dmg from equipment, for 197 AL and -6 dmg from all sources. Max HP with adrenal skills on is 847, W/Mo is 684. The W/Mo comes in at 201 AL thanks to superior runes. Where's my Eviscerate, Executioner's Strike, Penetrating Blow, Power Attack, Wild Blow and Disrupting Chop?

*That* is what being a tank is about. Ditch the axe and throw in ripostes if you like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Healing sig is the best selfheal for a PvE war generally.

Mending = +3 at 9 healing, waste of points that could have gone into defensive purposes, rather than shatterfodder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I'd put them in tactics/str, because as mentioned many times already, stances that block or skills that give + armor are a thousand times more effective than the use of energy and stat points in healing.

Quoted for truth.

Jetdoc · Jun 07, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

You still only have 8 skill slots. Mending takes one. Warriors would be great if they had 18 skill slots, wouldn't they? Unfortunately, they don't. The point of guildwars is to make a good build, one as efficient as possible with only 8 slots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

What the heck is this? Where did you get that I take PvP warriors to PvE? Look. If I played a w/mo this is what I would run.

15 Strength
14/12 Axe
5+1 Tactics
6/9 Healing
leftover in Smiting for extra adrenaline gain?

Defy Pain {E}
Dolyak Signet
Watch Yourself!
Live Vicariously
Vigorous Spirit
Cyclone Axe
Balthazar's Spirit
Flurry

Sure it has enchants, but there aren't many efficient self heals in the monk line that *aren't*.

Definitely a misunderstanding - I thought you were saying that a warrior did not have "space" in his skillbar for monk self-healing skills. You believe that attack-based heals such as Live Vicariously and Vigorous Spirit are more "efficient" heals than the passive gain from Mending. I find that in many situations Mending may actually be more efficient, especially if you're facing opponents that penalize you for attacking (e.g. Empathy, Spiteful Spirit, etc.).

Again, it's all up to preference on what passive heals you want to take, but I think the main thrust of this thread is attacking a warrior that brings any sort of self healing other than healing signet.

elektra_lucia · Jun 07, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

The problem is, people arn't relying on the monks to monk...

"especially if you're facing opponents that penalize you for attacking (e.g. Empathy, Spiteful Spirit, etc.)."

Then the monk removes the hex...?

Senator Tom · Jun 07, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

^^^yesyesyesyesyesy^^^^
half the time monks are terrible, and no i dont go charging in outside of the agro bubble or before the monks are ready. a lot of the time monks are just...bad, and some health regen does make a difference

elektra_lucia · Jun 07, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Of course monks are bad, but so are warriors (as this thread shows).

That's why you bring friends...