Curse

fiery · Jun 03, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

I get antsy every time I see a wammo, or even a monk using mending.

llsektorll · Jun 03, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

as sad as it is i've seen a something far worst for a warrior build than mending and vigorous spirit...

W/Me in the deep

with no KD (luckily i know i get stuck with noobs so as a monk i bring bane signet.... its quite sad really)... i thought yea w/me using stances and stuff as most would run... but no this guy defies the laws of guild wars...

he runs empathy, reckless haste, spams protectors strike, uses heal sig like Last of Masters... and his elite to kill Kanaxai is Midnight Signet...

after that i have to say i've now seen everything.... just when u think mending warriors is the extent of the nubiness

ok why the hate on mending?? ill tell you
mending with that 3 pip of regen is only good to counter a vamp weapon that 3 regen will help you because warriors do take little damage but in the long run will not be sufficient enough to prevent you from killing in cantha because of many many mobs having enchant removal

Imp · Jun 03, 2006, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

and his elite to kill Kanaxai is Midnight Signet...

and let me guess, after using it he expects the monks to jump right on top of him and cure that blindness for him?

I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!

LightningHell · Jun 03, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!
I have blind on me!

A lot more times than that...

Sacho · Jun 03, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

It's not that the skill is bad, it's just used by bad players inefficiently.

Most of the mending hate stems from warriors that go into arenas - most people just ignore a warrior until they've killed all the soft targets, and then, when 4 people focus on you, mending isn't going to help much.

But it's not just mending - it's healing hands, stance tanks, all the pve skills that assume you will be the first target - in pvp. Not only that, but the attitude that comes with them("Come 1vs1 nub!"). It's also a frustration for the team the warrior is in, as they usually expect the warrior to be doing most of the damage.

"Mending hate" is more, hate for people that bring inappropriate skills. It makes me wonder why people in pve bring frenzy on their warrior, coupling it with healing signet after something hits them(yes, take more damage please...), and in pvp, they bring stances, dolyak signet, whatever.

From my limited experience in Cantha, I don't see how mending would be very useful - damage is focused, hard hitting, and you'll either want a ton of stances to prevent it, or you'll want to kill the mobs before your monks's energy is exhausted.

To your main point, what does "counter to degen" mean? Removing degen is a good counter to it. That's why your monks have hex and condition removal. Any type of repeatable, efficient heal is a counter to degen. Your monks will usually be more stressed about the hit damage mobs cause, not the degen. If you are really worried about degen, there's plague touch, purge conditions, etc, etc.

Illidan Coldage · Jun 03, 2006, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

he runs empathy, reckless haste, spams protectors strike, uses heal sig like Last of Masters... and his elite to kill Kanaxai is Midnight Signet...

I thought reckless haste was a necro skills >.>

Isileth · Jun 03, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

The problem with mending and wammos in general is they are wasting slots. Sure in pve, running, farming and possibly RA you wont always have a dedicated healer so its nice to have such things. In higher lvl pvp it doesnt matter if you can tank 3 guys, you wont be doing any tanking! You want to be doing as much dmg as possible and screwing over the backline. Your monks will take care of you. Wammos are generally seen as selfish and quite stupid as they take skills that will only help them and not the rest of their team. Not only by removing such skills as mending do you free up more space for useful skills but you also get back some NRG which is pretty damn important when your trying to take people down in as short a time as possible!

Divinus Stella · Jun 03, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Well, if your only pro-mending argument is that its good for warrior farming then i assume your farming areas without enchant rape, in that case its not mending thats slowing you down, its your whole farming build, a 55hp monk will do several runs in the time it takes you to apply mending.

Also, ive not tested this, but if your doing the usual run into a huge mob of melee and spam cyclone axe, then why not use vig spirit and live vicariously, never made a pve wammo before, but im sure you would get more heals or "anti degen" without mending.

Helll is for Heroes · Jun 03, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

warriors = damage
whammo <> damage

that is why.

jesh · Jun 04, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Use all of the above <dunno>

You still only have 8 skill slots. Mending takes one. Warriors would be great if they had 18 skill slots, wouldn't they? Unfortunately, they don't. The point of guildwars is to make a good build, one as efficient as possible with only 8 slots. Mending is not a good use of such a slot, unless you're using it for one of the overly-mentioned uses above. Of course it has its place on a runner, but on a tank? No. There are better skill uses than that, especially considering the amount of points you have to dump into it. I'd rather endorse Watchful Spirit, at least you don't need to spend any attribute points on it to get the 2 regen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

Well, if your only pro-mending argument is that its good for warrior farming then i assume your farming areas without enchant rape, in that case its not mending thats slowing you down, its your whole farming build, a 55hp monk will do several runs in the time it takes you to apply mending.

Also, ive not tested this, but if your doing the usual run into a huge mob of melee and spam cyclone axe, then why not use vig spirit and live vicariously, never made a pve wammo before, but im sure you would get more heals or "anti degen" without mending.

Amen.

Ensign · Jun 04, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Would you personally rather a warrior on your team take mending than another skill, say.. dolyak signet, on just an average mission?

I'd rather have my warriors take Tiger's Fury than anything in the monk lines, and have them chop people down with Triple Chop and Cyclone Axe, but that is neither here nor there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

I would think that a skill already in the warrior line, like dolyak or watch yourself! would be much more effecient than dumping points into a skill like mending, wouldn't you?

Well when you have a good monk backline you shouldn't have to worry about something like mending, because the heals are going to be there. If you're pugging though? Who knows. Sometimes you get a monk who knows what's up, sometimes you get a guy who spams Healing Breeze on people at full heath then screams about energy problems.

Look at it this way. As a warrior in a pug, your #1 job is to keep yourself alive. While that's actually everyone's #1 job, it's also what people expect you to do, so there's little reason not to make it your #1 priority. With a solid backline you can rely on your natural durability more and focus on damage ala Tiger's Fury...but if I can't expect my monks to not suck, I'm not willing to trust my own healing to Signet + kiting when there are lots of dudes around. When you look at your healing options after Signet, Mending is the best one available. You do not have a lot of energy, and Mending is the most efficient one you can get in terms of energy invested, and absolutely the best one on time. In the situation you're looking at it's actually the best skill available.

The bad reputation comes from people seeing that success, and translating that into it being good everywhere, when that clearly isn't the case. Is it more efficient than pumping Dolyak Signet? Probably, I mean, 8 points in healing, presumably just for Mending, certainly beats dumping a lot of points into strength just for Dolyak Signet. Maxing your attributes isn't really key for a PvE warrior, you can branch into four lines without problem really.

Peace,
-CxE

Da Cebuano · Jun 04, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Bleh, I take it you don't look into Live voraciously much do ya ensign? or even vigorous spirit, as they completely own mending especially w/ the fact that you're promoting tiger's fury, which in this case I would rather carry tiger stance which although has a cooling time, does a decent job w/o blacking out your other skills and invest in a warrior att which other skills can take advantage of. Flurry while it blows in pvp, is actually decent in pve, 25% blows, but it don't matter in pve, where your adren charges up so fast you can spam skills. W/ a zealous sword, it always pays for itself.

Lets see, mending is 3 pips max on a warrior who invested enough pts on HP, thats equivalent to hp per second. Live voraciously @ the same level does about 10-12 hp per hit; w/ the attack speed buff, that totals to double the amount of hp you get from mending. Granted LV/VS requires you to attack, in which a warrior is require to do anyway. Mending can't combat degen very well either, as 3 pips can only do so much, whereas 12 hp per second actually does.

Dolyak is a bad investment unless you are sure that everything is attacking you, I prefer to be a w/mes and use phy/ele resist depending on enemy types, to me anything that slows down movement is bad, cause if someone does need help, I don't wanna have to crawl towards them w/ dolyak. Watch yourself should be a staple tank skill, as it the most versatile and AOE.

llsektorll · Jun 04, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illidan Coldage

I thought reckless haste was a necro skills >.>

maybe i was thinking of the wrong skill... it was a while back but none the less it was annoying and retarded... especially because i was the monk who needs to take off that stupid blind...

elektra_lucia · Jun 04, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

"why does everyone hate mending so much? healing breeze too? you know why everyone hates it? because you are all stupid. they weren't intended to be heals, but to be counters to degen."

Because a monk can let your health go down from degen, and then heal you, with a 5 energy skill...

We're all stupid? Oh right, well since you've already decided that you're correct... Why did you even post here? LoL.

torquemada · Jun 05, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

I can't really think of a situation where I would want mending on my skillbar, PvE-wise nor PvP wise. As Da Cebuano said, I don't think 3 pips is really effective degen counter.

Senator Tom · Jun 05, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

"why does everyone hate mending so much? healing breeze too? you know why everyone hates it? because you are all stupid. they weren't intended to be heals, but to be counters to degen."

Because a monk can let your health go down from degen, and then heal you, with a 5 energy skill...

We're all stupid? Oh right, well since you've already decided that you're correct... Why did you even post here? LoL.

Just because everyone else is stupid doesnt mean that i am correct. Instead of posting something like that, post an argument to make me think otherwise. Make me think that mending is bad. LoL.

Jetdoc · Jun 05, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

You still only have 8 skill slots. Mending takes one. Warriors would be great if they had 18 skill slots, wouldn't they? Unfortunately, they don't. The point of guildwars is to make a good build, one as efficient as possible with only 8 slots.

Just how many attack skills do you need? Do you REALLY need to bring Eviscerate, Executioner's Strike, Penetrating Attack, Power Attack, Wild Blow, AND Disrupting Chop? Isn't leaving some of these skills idle just as bad as taking up a slot for Mending in your mind?

You have plenty of room to use your attack skills efficiently and wisely as well, and carry enough defense and self-healing to provide enough protection for yourself.

I normally find myself carrying 3-4 attack skills and utilizing them to their fullest. This provides an excellent balance between attacking and defense.

Jeremy Untouchable · Jun 05, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

i use mending alot myself, never as a primary heal, but say for doing ettin farming, or just use it to even me back out from victos blade. i only need 4 attacks, then 2 defence buffs then a heal, sig or brezze, then i may use mending or a rez, if its alliance battles no rez is needed why not? mending is healing me as i'm chasing a fleeing monk, if i stop to cast a heal then he gets away heals himself then we are back to square one. i once played a 11 hour RA match and mending kept me alive (dang monk was echoing mark of protection) stood in a group with mending on, came back to com next morning monk was hideing in corner afk, one guy without mending was dead, me and other mending useing tank were still alive, went over and killed him...lol

jummeth · Jun 05, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Just how many attack skills do you need? Do you REALLY need to bring Eviscerate, Executioner's Strike, Penetrating Attack, Power Attack, Wild Blow, AND Disrupting Chop? Isn't leaving some of these skills idle just as bad as taking up a slot for Mending in your mind?

You have plenty of room to use your attack skills efficiently and wisely as well, and carry enough defense and self-healing to provide enough protection for yourself.

I normally find myself carrying 3-4 attack skills and utilizing them to their fullest. This provides an excellent balance between attacking and defense.

2 attack skills - Evis + Exe
1 IAS
1 Speed Buff
1 Res
1 party skill - Watch yourself
1 Self heal - Heal Sig
1 Evasive stance or KD/distrupt or Monk love - Succor

if you're having trouble filling your bar =/
in PvE Succor > Mending.

Jetdoc · Jun 05, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

2 attack skills - Evis + Exe
1 IAS
1 Speed Buff
1 Res
1 party skill - Watch yourself
1 Self heal - Heal Sig
1 Evasive stance or KD/distrupt or Monk love - Succor

if you're having trouble filling your bar =/
in PvE Succor > Mending.

An excellent guideline for a warrior template, but definitely not the only build you can create.

Succor is a nice monk compliment in PvE, but I find that very few warriors utilize it, especially when dealing with unknown monk capabilities in a PuG (which is described above).

Consider the following build:

2 attack skills
1 interrupt skill/additional attack
1 IAS/adrenaline charger
1 rez
Watch Yourself
Dolyak Signet or a Defensive Stance
Mending

To me, a speed buff in PvE isn't really necessary unless you plan on (1) running through a part of the mission/quest (e.g. Iron Mines) or (2) have to get the heck outta the midst of a battle (which to me isn't a good idea). Seeing that most PvE monsters don't utilize a method of kiting, a speed buff is used by a lot of warriors to charge into a battle (which is mainly impatience, IMO).

I'm a firm believer that Healing Signet in PvE is just a plain bad idea unless you have a defensive stance to cover it. Chances are that if you are getting pummeled to no end and your monk can't keep up the healing, pausing your attack to lower your armor by 40 ain't the best idea. Couple that with the fact that if you're using Frenzy as your IAS, then you're likely dead (which is one of the most common monk complaints about warriors).