Curse

Enko · Dec 08, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Mark of Rodgort is useful with Glowing Gaze as even if the enemy is not burning, the energy gain from Glowing Gaze will trigger if they're hexed.

When used with Searing Flames, it means every 4th cast won't be wasted to renew the burning. For a 1 second cast hex that last over 30 seconds, this can be fairly useful. With a Searing Flames build anyways, what other skills are you using? I had extra space and Mark was the best option I could find since other damage spells aren't really needed.

kess · Dec 08, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

I usually brings AoR and serpent quickness along with MoR,GG, SF and Fire Attunement.

Probably add liquid flame/fireball just an extra skill to use if you are bored with spmming SF all the time.

Glyph of elemental power if you want to boost your dmg output.

pingu666 · Dec 09, 2006, 02:23 AM // 02:23

its a nice skill to use now, if u dont have SF, you may aswell spam sf twice instead...

the good thing about the burning, it gets around armour, so against high al targets the spike vs burning damage favours it more...

jacen110091 · Dec 09, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Umm... I'd like to point out that to players like me who DO NOT have Nightfall yet, MoR is an invaluable skill in any Pyro build!

Used with MS as stated above . .

Or even in situations where you run out of energy (seriously, I must be horrid at e-management) using MoR and then wanding away at the enemy is a good way to keep contributing to a PVE group's success . .

And finally, used in conjunction with one of my fav fire magic spells (also one that is VERY underrated here) . . Lava Font!
As a backline caster, I stand next to my monk(s) and nothing gets enemy AI to run away from us faster than burning while taking over 50 points of base dmg per second (usually 35 with their AL, but even so)
Easy to cast/recast, and keeps pressure off the backlines!!

Amok Affinity · Dec 09, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

i think it's kind of mean for you to compare poor old Mark to our shiny new SF, to be honest :P

compare mark to fire non-elites, at least. it's definitely not "something for all ocassions", but it has value situationally especially among the rather piddly fire non-elites (and even the fire elites that arent sf, heh!).

i don't understand mark+flare at all (or the point of even bringing flare), but mark+wand is constant burning for as long as you're wanding away (and that could be a fairly decent amount of time in the grand scheme of things, pre-SF/GG spam.)

p.s. mob ai has changed however mob groups still bunch once you approach their vicinity, and that is marking prime time.

p.p.s. not trying to sell you on marks uber ownageness here , but it isn't assy at all.

Lord Oranos · Dec 09, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Im prolly gonna get flamed for this but, oh well... Ive been using Mind Blast and GG with MoR, its not spectacular, but its decent.

LightningHell · Dec 09, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

I don't get why you want to spec into Fire for something other than SF. There are better options, if SF doesn't take care of it.

XvArchonvX · Dec 09, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I don't get why you want to spec into Fire for something other than SF. There are better options, if SF doesn't take care of it.

SF does more dps, but in many areas later on in the game, the KD from MS can be more advantageous than simple damage and burning.

Symbol · Dec 09, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

There's nothing preventing you from taking both. You should be able to fit GoS + Meteor shower onto a SF bar. Or if the KD is all you want-you could save a slot and take gale.

XvArchonvX · Dec 09, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

There's nothing preventing you from taking both. You should be able to fit GoS + Meteor shower onto a SF bar. Or if the KD is all you want-you could save a slot and take gale.

If you use this option then you only get one MS every 120 seconds. Gale only gives one KD to one enemy at the cost of exhaustion. A GoR or Echo MS nuker gets near constant AoE kd. Imho, in high level areas such as DoA, a good backline will have at least one echo/renewal MS nuker and one SF ele. For normal PvE usage, I think that there are some areas where a MS nuker can hold an advantage, even though admittedly, a SF ele is frequently the better choice in most situations.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 09, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

I'm pretty sure Black Mischief, the person I know furthest in DoA, does not use a renewal nuker. He does, however, use two searing flames eles, and I believe both have aegis. Echo nuking/renewal nuking almost always leaves you with no utility, and I'd rather have aegis chains than meteor shower chains.

ArianeB · Dec 10, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

I occasionally throw in MoR on my build because my heroes all have fiery weapons. Acolyte Jin has a fiery recurve bow/Barrage, Tahlkora has a divine wand that does fire damage and Koss has a FDS, so MoR sets the bad guys on fire for a while and therefore SF spamming does max damage.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 10, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianeB

I occasionally throw in MoR on my build because my heroes all have fiery weapons. Acolyte Jin has a fiery recurve bow/Barrage, Tahlkora has a divine wand that does fire damage and Koss has a FDS, so MoR sets the bad guys on fire for a while and therefore SF spamming does max damage.

I should've been more explicit in the original post, but an example like this is possibly the only time when MoR is worth the payoff. If everyone in the build conveniently has fire weapons, I'm all for it, because then the effect is more guaranteed on multiple targets.

Francis Crawford · Dec 10, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Good point on the hero weapons.

Since heroes can't weapon-swap, vampiric and zealous weapon have some disadvantages for them. So giving them elemental weapons isn't all bad.

Batou of Nine · Dec 10, 2006, 07:56 AM // 07:56

i have been experimenting with this skill in PvE.

Despite it being true that its efficiency as well as AoE affect are hardly noteworthy, i have found ways to use MoR fairly well. First off, i love synergizing my Hero builds with my own. My first example is myself as a Sandstorm + other earth AoE spells spammer, an ele hero as a water ele for mass snares who also uses either Water Trident to KD foes trying to escape from my Earth AoE or i make him hybrid water snares + earth wards along with Unsteady Ground [e], so that foes attacking inside my Earth AoE are Kd'd, snared and taking extra dmg FOR attacking all on top of the constant AoE dmg. Using an FoC necro hero with this build is just... for fun, and yet works great!

Anywhoo, using that as an example, i tried using the same method but being a fire AoE user. Tenai's Heat, Searing Heat, Savannah Heat [e], etc. Coupling that with MoR works quite well. Since most foes will most often be water snared, this usually also keeps many of them near eachother, if not adjecent. This allows MoR to be caste and affect multiple targets quite well. Then i start laying down my AoE fire spells on random targets in the group and this way i cover a large area for consistent fire dmg. So now they are snared, often Kd'd and burning and taking AoE fire dmg. Sounds good to me! And even better, even if the snares wear off, they will run back and forth through the fire AoE areas, constantly triggering MoR... AFter all this mass dmg, i am doing more then just dmg, i am protecting my casters keeping the Ai on the constant move back and forth, allowing my heros to not only inflict critical hits, but also taking time away from foes to caste spells or attack.

Energy management you ask? The attunement of that element + Glyph of Lesser Energy i find to be all i need for most builds. Obviously using GoLe for the 25 en skills, and the attunement giving me moderate returns on the 15 en skills. Keeps me affloat for several minutes at a time. Not convinced? Fine take the Blood henchy, or throw BR on a hero, and your set...

Whats my overall point? For the average user, ya MoR is inefficient. You wanna know WHY Searing Flames [e] is so popular? Its a no brainer skill, no thinking involved, hardly any pre-setup needed, completely spammable, incredibly easy to manage and maintain, and honestly, the average player is NOT a thinking/creative player. The average player is cookie cutter, and that is just the plain fact.

This is not to be bashing, but just to show what a little ingenuity, creativity, and good ol' thinking does for the average "not so great" skill. I play this game because of the incredibly open-endedness for creativity in builds in this game, and i love the fact that i can take any skill and squeeze it into a build and have it be effective in some way...

Btw, congrats if you were able to read through that wall of text! teehee!
I'll prolly get flamed on my build examples, or my rant-ish commentary... but umm, ya...

cheers

Grammar · Dec 10, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Sorry folks, I gave it a second spin this weekend, and I just don't think MoR has any place in a SF bar.

Many people talk up the benefit of not having to restart the burning after 7 seconds, which they claim allows for more SF hits on a target. This is incorrect. The truth is, you break even almost every time (in terms of # of SF hits per target), with bosses being the occasional exception.

MoR does not start the burning. Therefore, after casting MoR, you will need to cast SF (or GG) to start the burning before you can get your first SF hit in. That's 3 casts right there; instead of the normal 2 casts (start burning + first hit) if you were to use only SF. By cast #3, the SF-only Ele will already be on SF hit #2, while the SF+MoR Ele will only be on SF hit #1.
Obviously, if the target lives longer than 7 seconds, the SF-only Ele will need to waste one of their SF casts to restart the burning whereas the SF+MoR Ele will not. But all that does is bring the 2 Ele's back even again (in terms of # of SF hits on that target in the same amount of time).
The SF+MoR Ele does not gain an advantage unless the target lives longer than 14 seconds, which is an eternity for a focus-fired, non-boss monster. If for some reason this happens, then the SF+MoR Ele gains a slight advantage.......however, this rare advantage is laughable when you consider the following three factors:
1. It's just that, a RARE advantage.
2. This one's obvious.....it uses up a precious skill slot!
3. The AoE ranges don't sync up. SF is "nearby" while MoR is only "adjacent", meaning that most of the time (when you only need to restart the burning once), the SF+MoR Ele doesn't even break even with the SF-only Ele in number of hits on "nearby" foes (only breaks even on "adjacent" foes).

MoR is just a terrible skill for a SF Ele. It would agree that it's a nice skill for non-SF Eles (like MS) and Barrage Rangers and such, but not for a SF Ele.
Personally I prefer to keep MS (40 second recharge with SQ) or a utility skill on my bar with that slot.

Symbol · Dec 10, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Your analysis is incorrect because the number of casts is not important, it's the time overhead. MoR simply delays the start of the SF onslaught by 1.75 secs, the longer the battle, the less important this delay becomes. If you have to recast it during a fight, you can always interleave it between SF casts with minimal penalty.

And frankly, if everything is dying in <= 7secs than what to put in that last slot on your bar is hardly important.

Over a long time period MoR adds some ~16 dps. For other fire spells that number is <14 dps since some of them do damage through burning which is superfluous with MoR.

So if you consider MoR terrible on a SF bar, then you must also consider it terrible in combination with every other fire spell, because the benefit is strictly less than what you get with SF.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 10, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

So if you consider MoR terrible on a SF bar, then you must also consider it terrible in combination with every other fire spell, because the benefit is strictly less than what you get with SF.

I do.

Xeones The Great · Dec 11, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

:agree:

Francis Crawford · Dec 11, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Truth be told, I haven't found a way to use MoR effectively in SF builds.