Curse

Rangers Rock · Dec 28, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

As explained in the title, I want to know which of these are better. Both PvE and PvP. And if possible, post the cons and pros of the two skills. Then give your opinion on which of these skills are better to use.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 28, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Searing flames is better. The end. No need to post pros and cons.

-.- · Dec 28, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

There is no comparison. Searing Flames just owns Mind Burn. Thread over.

Francis Crawford · Dec 28, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Mind Burn might not be worth taking if it were a non-elite.

ubermancer · Dec 28, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Crawford

Mind Burn might not be worth taking if it were a non-elite.

He does raise an interesting point.

mage767 · Dec 31, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Well, like the others pointed out, SF is obviously way better than Mind Burn.

However...

If you take all the bad stuff (exhaustion and recharge time) away from Mind Burn...you get MIND BLAST! Yes, this new Nightfall spell (capped from Exuro Flatus) may actually be better than SF/GG combined. In addition, it gives valuable information about the enemy's energy level and you can use it to your advantage. Knowledge is power!

Imagine a fire elementalist (with enough points in energy storage) spamming this on other professions...energy management would never be a problem.

Seef II · Dec 31, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Mind Blast is basically a free Flare, but if you're using it to deal damage, you get owned by high AL and are spending 100% of your time to punch out damage that isn't any higher than an autoattacking warrior. No disruption, no snaring, just... Flare.

SF has both beat by a pretty good margin.

mage767 · Dec 31, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seef II

Mind Blast is basically a free Flare, but if you're using it to deal damage, you get owned by high AL and are spending 100% of your time to punch out damage that isn't any higher than an autoattacking warrior. No disruption, no snaring, just... Flare.

SF has both beat by a pretty good margin.

However, SF is rarely used alone all by itself, as otherwise, energy management problems would occur unless Glowing Gaze (GG) is used. SF alone is not a spammable spell.

Against a single target, if you add up the total cost of 2XSF followed by 1X GG and deduct the energy gained during the 9 seconds of execution, and perform the same for 4xMind Blast during the same period:

At LVL16 fire:

SF/GG Combo: 290 damage + burning (additional 126) = 416, 35 energy cost - 10 energy gain = 25 net energy loss

MB: 250 damage, 20 energy cost - 40 energy gain = 20 net energy gain.

Would you rather damage foes quickly with SF/GG and eventually run out of energy or think about the making the battle a test of endurance?

The quick and powerful energy renewal from MB makes it a formidable management skill that can be used to power more aggressive fire spells or relegated for secondary professions.

P.S. SF/GG becomes even more effective with Glyph of Lesser Energy, but then again, this could be used for other purposes in a Mind Blast build as well.

Francis Crawford · Dec 31, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I'd rather use SF/GG and not run out of energy, thank you very much.

Unless enchantment stripping is so bad that I can't keep Fire Attunement up:

2 SFs cost 20 net energy
1 GG returns 7 net energy

8 energy regens in the 6 seconds it takes to do all that (HSR and SQ aside).

Net loss of 5 energy in 8 seconds -- that's completely covered by GoLE, which is around 50 energy/minute.

Rangers Rock · Dec 31, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

But lets say, your enemy is immune to conditions(Avatar of Melandru for ie), Mind Burn would do much more dmg then Sf, since Sf only does its dmg if your foe is on fire.

AuraofMana · Dec 31, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

-can't wait for the nerf bat on SF and something with E/D Earth build-
But yeah, SF owns hands down.

Francis Crawford · Dec 31, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

The tricky thing about a Mind Blast build would be this -- for Mind Blast to be a powerful energy-creating engine, you need to have both Fire Magic and Energy Storage high. That reduces the possibilities for actually USING the energy for other purposes.

Hmm. It might be possible to ward somewhat effectively; at least, the wards would be up around half the time or better. Gaze of Contempt comes to mind too; ditto Plague Sending. Or monk condition/hex removal, although that one would be tricky to execute since you'd keep changing from ally to enemy targets and back.

Maybe Arcane Echo to drive the energy engine even faster? And since it's /Me, interrupts otherwise. Although the fact that you're spamming a 1-second casting time spell diminishes your ability to interrupt effectively. Whoops. At least you can spread around some Deep Wounds if you're /Me.

In any case, setting the attributes will be tricky, and might well be zone-dependent. (Unless we're talking PvP, where the idea might actually be stronger.) And for once a rune of Sup Energy Storage might actually make sense.

Francis Crawford · Dec 31, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangers Rock

But lets say, your enemy is immune to conditions(Avatar of Melandru for ie), Mind Burn would do much more dmg then Sf, since Sf only does its dmg if your foe is on fire.

Do you have any other examples in mind?

Dr Strangelove · Dec 31, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Exhaustion makes mind burn totally worthless, nuff said.

Evilsod · Dec 31, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangers Rock

But lets say, your enemy is immune to conditions(Avatar of Melandru for ie), Mind Burn would do much more dmg then Sf, since Sf only does its dmg if your foe is on fire.

And Mind Burn just isn't worth using. Hell its only useful if you have more energy than them. And it causes exhaustion and is nothing overly special. You need lots more fire skills to do any real damage which brings your energy down lower.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Dec 31, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Mind Burn isn't a complete loss, when combined with a couple other skills to use with it that are fast casts(not flare -.-) then the exhaustion doesn't work to well and you have an excellent single target pressure and spike if done correctly.

Rangers Rock · Jan 01, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Crawford

Do you have any other examples in mind?

Frigid armor is another one... Still, if they are immune to burning, it is better to bring Mind Burn, since you do will almost always do both damage. The burning effect will not work if they are immune to conditions.

Evilsod · Jan 01, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangers Rock

Frigid armor is another one... Still, if they are immune to burning, it is better to bring Mind Burn, since you do will almost always do both damage. The burning effect will not work if they are immune to conditions.

If they were immune to burning i wouldn't be wasting Exhaustion on doing something i could just as easily with a Fireball.

LightningHell · Jan 01, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

It isn't about Mind Burn costing wayyyy less than Searing Flames, it's about Searing Flames being able to output more damage.

Symbol · Jan 01, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Mind burn is bad because almost half the damage is through a long duration burn, which is a) easily removed, and b) doesn't really fit the frontloaded damage niche the spell is supposed to serve.

Frankly, I think exhaustion needs to be removed. Given that the extra damage and burning is conditional the skill is hardly overpowered even if you could spam it.