Curse

Dutch Masterr · Dec 20, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

this build is extremley powerful, but i need some help with tweaking it a bit. this is what i currently have set up...

15 hammer, 12 tactics, 9 strength (or 16 hammer, 11 tactics)

skills--healing signet, sprint, tiger stance, shove, crushing blow, thrill of victory, hammer bash, optional (i use disciplined stance for emergencies).

start out by picking a target and use tiger stance immidiatley followed by shove, crushing blow, thrill of victory and hammer bash. use sprint and heal sig at appropriate times. dont run this build like you would normally run a tank, it just wont work. use it sort of like an assassin--hitting hard and fast and getting out fast.

-.- · Dec 20, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

ALWAYS go with 16 Weapon Mastery if you ever think about PvPing.

There should be optional skill because you're lacking a Rez Sig. Replace Tiger Stance with Frenzy and Sprint for Rush. Drop Thrill of Victory for Bull's Strike or Protector's Strike.

Munanko Roha · Dec 20, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Looks too energy intensive...

Think about replacing Shove with Devastating Hammer or Backbreaker maybe, you will have the problem of building adrenaline but you will be more efficient either. See the comments in the post above too.

Dutch Masterr · Dec 20, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

16 weapon mastery compared to 15 only adds about 1 damage to skills.

SparhawkJC · Dec 20, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

also increases base hammer damage and increases chance for criticals. I agree with -.-'s suggestions.

icedwhitemocha · Dec 20, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Here's the version of this that I've seen played in high level GvG's in the past:

Death's Charge > Tiger Stance > Shove > Crushing Blow > Thrill of Victory

That is ofc the optimal chain. Death's charge having a 45s recharge doesn't help things, and the main chain costing 20/25E kinda sucks as well. There really isn't a reason to use Frenzy *over* tiger stance in a bar like this. Notice that both Shove and Tiger Stance have a 20s recharge, meaning your "adren" spikes will be at least that far apart.

I agree with changing Sprint to Rush, but keep Thrill of Victory and Tiger Stance.

And yeah, run 16 Hammer to give yourself every edge possible.

-.- · Dec 20, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Tiger Stance is really bad in PvP, it ends if you an attack doesn't hit the target and it has such a low duration and high recharge.

Frenzy is still King in PvP.

icedwhitemocha · Dec 20, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

I agree in theory, but for this particular hammer bar, the negatives of frenzy outweigh the negatives of tiger stance. The duration isn't an issue because it's a spike build. The recharge isn't an issue because you'll only need it once every 20s anyway. If you miss with an attack (namely crushing blow) the spike is screwed anyway and whether or not you have an IAS up won't matter.

Muk Utep · Dec 21, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

The extra damage from attribute points is very, very small for anything above 12. The difference from 12 to 13 is less than half of the difference from 11 to 12. Considering the large hp hit you take from using a superior rune, I wouldn't go with 16 on a PvP character. My characters have always done fine with 13-15, and the 40 extra hp has helped me more than the 3% extra damage.

Franco Power · Dec 21, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

LOL
you can use frenzy most of the times your warrior isnt being targetted anyway

Oh and Yes mate, shove + crushing blow is such a huge spike!! gonna kill a monk in no time rofl

Dutch Masterr · Dec 21, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Ultimatum

LOL
you can use frenzy most of the times your warrior isnt being targetted anyway

Oh and Yes mate, shove + crushing blow is such a huge spike!! gonna kill a monk in no time rofl

wow, you have to stop posting in my threads. you never ever ever have anything useful to say at all. all you do is criticize everyones builds and dont post any yourself. maybe if youve actually tried the build, youd know that shove+crushing blow+thrill of victory on top of tiger stance DOES add a huge spike and DOES nearly kill 60 al armor opponents. frenzy is an absoulte TERRIBLE choice for this build, not every build, but for this build its bad. shove disables non attack skills for 6 seconds so you cant cancel it if you start to take damage, which happens all the time...i guess youve never had to face another warrior 1vs1 in pvp? ill say this AGAIN---"this build is extremley powerful, but i need some help tweaking it" next time you decide to post on any thread at all, actually post some useful information and know what the hell your talking about. everyone else that has posted something at least tried to be helpful unlike you.

btw, you dont only face monks in pvp

twicky_kid · Dec 21, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Don't listen to the 16 in weapon attribute bs.

Helm and minor is fine. 75 hp is better than 3% more dmg which is effectively 1-2 dmg.

Critical chance is no longer a factor with go for the eyes.

ss1986v2 · Dec 21, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

if you want the maximum dmg possible, ya gotta run the sup rune. but i think the game has been changing little by little ever since factions. im seeing more and more ppl running just minors without too much trouble. sometime i think that the whole max weapon attribute thing is a bit too over hyped and a bit of old school thinking. it comes down to 75 hp vs the added dmg from 14 to 16 in you weapon attribute. i really dont think either side is wrong, its just two entirely different styles of thinking.

as for the build, i only have a couple of issues:

1) looks very energy heavy. your chain seems to consume almost all of your available energy. tiger stance, shove, crushing blow, thrill of victory puts you down 20 energy, and if you sprint afterwards, there goes the rest. just seems like there may be a bit of downtime before you can follow up with another chain (havnt tested so i dont know).

2) i like shove, but i love my hammer elites so much more. it just seems like a bit of a waste to bring along shove with beauties like backbreaker and dev hammer just sitting out there. i know this build seems to be based around the energy attacks and throwing in an adren skill does delay the start of the chain, but i gotta say it.

then again, every hammer build ive ever made/commented on turns into a devastating/crushing/fierce chain (i just love it so much

).

*edit*have you tried burst of aggression in place of tigers stance? since you arent relying on adren, it seems it could be a bit better (same duration, same IAS speed, doesnt end if you miss, and has a better recharge).

LightningHell · Dec 21, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

You usually run 14 weapon mastery on split characters, I think. Otherwise, 16 is still the norm.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 21, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

I don't think superiors are worth it ever.

-.- · Dec 21, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Warriors are suppose to deal as much damage as they possibly can sooooo....a Superior rune is mandatory.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 21, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

The increase in damage tapers off after about 12 in a weapon skill. From there, the percentage of damage tapers off and starts to become less and less beneficial. Considering warriors are the class most likely to overextend, and the class punished most when DP'd (after monks), It's best to not be easy to get spiked down at the flagstand when extending for a monk. In pve it's completely irrelevant, but in GVG I don't use superiors, and I don't feel like buying a second hat or reruning everytime I switch from pve to pvp.

If you have a pve warrior seperate from a pvp warrior it also doesn't matter as much, so that point also becomes moot. But if YOU DO use a warrior for both PVP and PVE then the expense becomes a factor, especially if you hate farming.

My post was completely seperate from what the majority of this part of the forum focuses on, so I should've clarified.

icedwhitemocha · Dec 21, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Considering the fact that with most mixed spike builds, the damage comes from the caster support in the form of Spiritual Pain/Eburn/Esurge/Wastrels, all a warrior really needs to do in those builds is deliver an untelegraphed Deep Wound. Shining example of this is the build iQ farmed the ladder with in the few days before the lock - they employed a warrior whose single purpose was to walk up to a target, Eviscerate, and maybe get a critical chop off before the target was down. For this purpose, a minor on the particular character is fine (in the format of GvG ofc). Sooo I agree with Thom on this point and retract my earlier statement about 16 hammer.

Basically this character can disobey two rules of thumb because it is a niche build - 1) MUST USE FRENZY - false 2) MUST HAVE 16 IN YOUR WEAPON - false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Ultimatum

LOL
you can use frenzy most of the times your warrior isnt being targetted anyway

Any team that's playing defensively at any point in time is going to be harassing and pressuring offense... offense = warriors. The fact that Shove means you can't cancel Frenzy for 5/6 seconds also makes you a liability.

EDIT: so people can draw their own conclusions about running a Sup...
Weapon Mastery followed by percent of listed damage:
10 - 84.1%
11 - 91.7%
12 - 100%
13 - 104%
14 - 107%
15 - 111%
16 - 115%

Dutch Masterr · Dec 21, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

on every character i have i always run 1 superior rune (2 with superior vigor) and 1 major rune. on my warrior i have superior hammer/sword/axe and major tactics (and superior vigor) and i have 505 health. with a hammer i have about 470 health and i get by fine with that.

The Muffen Man · Dec 22, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Well I would sub sprint for dash tigers for BOA and some thing else for hammer bash cause shove makes you loose all adrenaline