Curse

Thom Bangalter · Dec 15, 2006, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

Oh and guys i despise dragon slashers so please dont turn this into a dragon slash discussion thread.

~A Leprechaun~

The elite is bad. end of story. Want fast adrenaline? Run dragon slash. Don't like dragon slash? have fun with gimped bars.

A Leprechaun · Dec 15, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

*Thought Thom bangalter*

i really dont mind you thinking that, but for me it works great. Have you even tryed it? Or is it to ridiculous for that? lol, I like this build, and mabye some other people do to. Its fun to play and works well, you dont have to like it if you dont want Thom.

^^
~A Leprechaun~

Thom Bangalter · Dec 15, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

If I'm going to try to be semi-constructive, then get frustrated and start flaming, I will indeed go test the build. And Rage of the Ntoulke (whatever the spelling is) is pretty terrible. It's better than primal rage though, but is slightly worse than battle rage.

A Leprechaun · Dec 15, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

I have used loads not just in this build in loads of my builds and I get on fine.
But i cant force you to agree with me.

~A Leprechaun~

Dazzen · Dec 15, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Leprechaun, It works and is very efficient.

I've tweaked it thought, i dropped flail for plague touch (I hardly use IAS witht this build and don't think i need it much), and currently using 14 hammer/14 strenght (because of my STR helmet atm, i'm planning to use a HM helmet later).

What i like in the build idea is the totally different way of playing adreanline skills, since you hardly have to charge them by hitting foes, and with slow hammer swings it's really nice to avoid building up adren.

It's funny how people complain about the 5s selfblackout from rage of the Ntouka on adren skills, since anyway if you do it right you'll completely charge those skills like 10 seconds after... Disabled for 5 secs, who cares, are you going to reuse it in the 5s gap ? They wouldn't be fully charged anyway.

TY for the build, i find it fun, efficient and a refreshing playstyle for my W.

A Leprechaun · Dec 15, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Thanks Dazzen, I'm glad you like it. Yeah you dont really need an IAS but i like one for the damage output. And about the 5 second blackout, you've hit the nail on the head, thats exactly my point. Because after the 5seconds you have full adrenaline anyway from mokele+enraging. ^^

Thanks
~A Leprechaun~

Nexus Icon · Dec 15, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I think that's why Rage works so well with hammer skills; the slow swing rate and the amount of time the enemy spends on the floor, especially with Stonefist gauntlets.
See, that's 3 seconds you don't need a skill right there; hit them with another KD when they've gotten up, and they're down for 3 secs again, well over the "Blackout" period for Ntouka.

jesh · Dec 15, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus Icon

jesh, I really want you to try my sword slasher build. Hopefully that would enlighten you.
Honestly, "FGJ!" is a nice bonus, but this works pretty damn well without it. Hopefully then you'll realise why everybody raves about Dragon Slash:

"FGJ!"
Enraging Charge
Flail
Standing Slash
Silverwing Slash
Sun & Moon Slash
Dragon Slash
Res

I have used a build almost identical. I still hate FGJ. I replaced Sun and Moon with To The Limit.
As for Rage {E}, like I said.. I liked this skill before, cause I thought it would magically meet all adrenaline requirements for 5 seconds, not give you a mini blackout.
Hammer warriors in PvE rock, they just don't bother rushing in first. I have one that is every caster's favorite boy toy. I've saved countless monks and elementalist with knock down chains. Of course this kind of character is better in situations with terrible aggro, but that happens a lot with PuGs.

A Leprechaun · Dec 16, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Yes i agree, on paper that RotN looks bad but jesh you have basically admitted you have never used it and when you use it, it works fine.

~A Leprechaun~

LightningHell · Dec 16, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

@LightningHell ~ Why is the second hit eons after?!?!

Referring to the 5s recharge. It isn't efficent, period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

Oh and guys i despise dragon slashers so please dont turn this into a dragon slash discussion thread.

~A Leprechaun~

The elite is bad. end of story. Want fast adrenaline? Run dragon slash. Don't like dragon slash? have fun with gimped bars.

qft.

jesh · Dec 16, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Oh god I hate UPS. Sorry about the double post.. *goes to delete it*
When I'm bored, I'll go cap the skill and post my results. There has to be some kind of potential if we have 3 people saying it works nice, so far. On the other hand.. some people like Primal Rage too. =x

Dazzen · Dec 16, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Referring to the 5s recharge. It isn't efficent, period.

Have you tried the build ? I really don't see all the fuss about it with the setup of the OP. It works as stated, deals correct damage especially when you can control aggro and chain yeti smashs/KD skills.

The elite itself taken out from the concept of this build may be bad yeah, but IMO, so is dragon slash without some kind of adren buff like FGJ for it to be charged once.

And btw thom, what does dragon slash is doing in a discussion about a hammer build ?

A Leprechaun · Dec 16, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Ty dazzen

Buce · Dec 20, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

I just started using my warrior again and find Rage of Ntouka merit the elite status. Unconditional adrenaline gain, 7 strikes at str 14, for 5e and 15 sec rechg is unbelievable. Weary of blackout? This is your answer, guys. Instant charge for all your adrenaline skills. Like Leprechaun said, try it. The 5 second recharge is nothing if you use Rage again. The key is to chain your attack like assasin, then the 5 sec recharge will be your chain recharge time.

I'm using sword as this skill make Final Thrust make sense again.

killer_sss · Dec 20, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

i used this skill to defeat an anoying dervish 1on1 in gh. mind u i suck at a warrior. havent tried this exact build but i used a sword build hardly tailored specifically for it. rage with the 2 blockdmg skills while wielding sword the heal that disables signets and some swords skille. was great the best thing about it is you can go into build with adrenilain atm you reach your target no need to charge them. rage until you get close to target just to keep adreniline up and first time there is no recharge (as if it affected you nehow) after that just pound pound pound.

Dzus · Dec 20, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tan Blademaster

when I see that a warrior build has no rez, outside of ABs and farming, I just stop reading...

Sometimes you've gotta look at it this way: If your party is dead except for the warrior, you may want a new warrior, not a res.

Well, I don't think I'd want to try again, anyway.

And I ran a similar build with swords, I'll give this a whirl as well. ^.^

Munanko Roha · Dec 20, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Maybe you should want a new party either...

A Leprechaun · Dec 20, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Lol it seems the only people who say RotN is bad are the ones who havent used it. o.O Strange, could this be some kind of coinsidence?

Tingi · Dec 20, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzus

Sometimes you've gotta look at it this way: If your party is dead except for the warrior, you may want a new warrior, not a res.

Well, I don't think I'd want to try again, anyway.

And I ran a similar build with swords, I'll give this a whirl as well. ^.^

And why is that? Because you associate warriors as being tanks only? Granted they are frontline troops, but If the rest of you're team is dead in PvE - it means that they should LEARN HOW TO KITE instead of just standing around like a lemon taking hits and shouting "z0mg teh warrior dint keep agro!!11!!, he isa n00b!"

But to get back to my orignial point. No rez on a warrior outside of farming, abs (and a few other exceptions) = that person should quit gw

LightningHell · Dec 20, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzus

Sometimes you've gotta look at it this way: If your party is dead except for the warrior, you may want a new warrior, not a res.

Well, I don't think I'd want to try again, anyway.

And I ran a similar build with swords, I'll give this a whirl as well. ^.^

In a perfect scenario, everything would be kept alive and well controlled.

However, they rarely happen, and sometimes somebody dies. It's for the good of the whole party that that person gets back up, getting your group up to full efficiency (or at least in a position that's a lot better than if you had seven).

Quote:

It's funny how people complain about the 5s selfblackout from rage of the Ntouka on adren skills, since anyway if you do it right you'll completely charge those skills like 10 seconds after... Disabled for 5 secs, who cares, are you going to reuse it in the 5s gap ? They wouldn't be fully charged anyway.

The 5s recharge is significant because the lack of adrenaline building during that period, as you probably well know. While the normal Warrior might not be able to build enough adrenaline for the attacks in 5 seconds, he might have it readily after, something like 2-3 seconds after.

I look at a single skill (7 adren), so to take an easy way out of judging this build first.

The numbers in the ()'s are the finish-cast times (i.e. when the skill resolves), in seconds.

Point A in time
Rage of the Ntouka (0)
Mokele Smash (1.17)
Initial usage of skill (2.34)
Downtime/Building (15.21)
Usage of skill (16.38)
Adrenaline Building (21.06)
Mokele Smash (22.23)
Usage of skill (23.4)
...And, your sweet little RotN combo can't be used, so...
Point B
Rage of the Ntouka (23.4)
Usage of Skill (24.57)
Downtime/Building (37.44)
Usage of skill (38.61)
Adrenaline Building (43.29)
Mokele Smash (44.46)
Usage of skill (45.63)
Point C

It's basically Point A, with the skill being used 3 times in 23.4 seconds, then Point B-C recurring, with the skill used 3 times every 22.23 seconds.

Without RotN you would have:

Mokele Smash (1.17)
Adrenaline Building (5.85)
Usage of skill (7.02)
Adrenaline Building (14.04)
Usage of skill (15.21)
Adrenaline Building (19.89)
Mokele Smash (22.23)
Usage of Skill (23.4)
Adrenaline Building (30.42)
Usage of Skill (31.59)
Adrenaline Building (38.61)
Usage of Skill (39.78)
Adrenaline Building (43.29)
Mokele Smash (44.46)
Normal Attack (45.63)
Usage of Skill (46.8)

This is slower than the RotN version by one single attack, at the count of 6 of a single attack skill.

Granted, the scenario changes when you have 2 7-adrenaline attack skills on your bar, and 1 6-adrenaline attack skill on your bar, with Mokele Smash.

With RotN:
Rage of the Ntouka (0)
Mokele Smash (1.17)
Mighty Blow (2.34)
Yeti Smash (3.51)
Hammer Bash (4.68)
Downtime/Adrenaline Building (15.21)
Mighty Blow (16.38)
Attack (17.55)
Yeti Smash (18.72)
Hammer Bash (19.89)
RotN (19.89)
Mokele (21.06)
Recurring, with every 19.89 seconds being a cycle.

Without RotN:
Point D
Mokele Smash (1.17)
Adrenaline Building (5.85)
Mighty Blow (7.02)
Yeti Smash (8.19)
Hammer Bash (9.36)
Adrenaline Building (17.55)
Mighty Blow (18.72)
Yeti Smash (19.89)
Hammer Bash (21.06)
Normal Attack (22.23)
Point E
Mokele Smash (23.4)
Adrenaline Building (26.91)
Mighty Blow (28.08)
Yeti Smash (29.25)
Hammer Bash (30.42)
Adrenaline Building (38.61)
Mighty Blow (39.78)
Yeti Blow (40.95)
Hammer Bash (42.12)
Normal Attack (43.29)
Point F
Mokele Smash (44.46)

Basically, Point D to E is the chain 2 times in 22.23 seconds, and Point E-F is a recurring sequence, having 2 chains in the course of 19.89 seconds.

As you can see, it really does nothing except speed up the first chain by 3~ seconds. With Rage of the Ntouka, you also lose a lot of flexibility.

Plus the Hammer elites are too tasty (Backbreaker? Earth Shaker for PvE? Devastating?).

I just wrote that? I really have no life...