Curse

Praetor · Nov 14, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

If that +30-60HP is saving your party from a wipe, your party blew it. And blew really bad.

Either way, once that 30HP is gone, it's gone until you get healed. +5 armor has dmg reduction over time, thus you need less heals over that period of time. +30 HP MIGHT save you from a spike, but you deserve to die anyways because you and your team let yourself/you get spiked.

I really hate how nearly every single green axe/sword/hammer/bow has +30HP. That's why Graygore's Zealous Short Bow > all.

And finally, the reason we can't compare the use of HP/armor mods between PvE & PvP is that in PvP, spikes are usually coordinated and well focused. Sure there's pressure teams, but they too select certain targets for certain types of damage. In general (and really broadly), wars get degened out, squishies get spiked out.

fearian · Nov 14, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Im sorry I have no idea what the hell your problem is? your complaining like its the worst thing in guild wars that people use HP mods!!!1!

1. so you can boost your attribs with superior runes
2. so you can tank out damage
3. because you can survive longer with more HP giving you time to retreat and recouperate

but why flame at all? it dosnt affect you the slightest...

LightningHell · Nov 14, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ic Zero

because it speeds things up? i don't see how that makes someone a noob

+Energy will only sustain you in battle for...a tiny bit longer, and if you have energy management, you won't need the +Energy, and a +AL/+HP mod would be better.

Assuming you're commenting on the +Energy phrase.

Tranquilis · Nov 14, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

If that +30-60HP is saving your party from a wipe, your party blew it. And blew really bad.

If the party is saved by the extra HP, then by definition, they've not failed. IOW, they haven't blown it. OK, so they might have been more efficient, but survival is survival, no matter how it happens.

crucifix · Nov 15, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

so they can boost themselves with superior runes without ending at 105 health >.> rofl :|

dunno why, suppose people just dont use their brain and like the "30" better than a "5" or "7" because its higher? i dunno;

you can ask yourself the same question, just with Energy/Armor, why do people wear full energy armor? why not + armor? same reason, most of them are just noobs. :P

that isnt exactly the right comparison. the + ene armor is super useful on almost all classes. i woudl take ene armor over phys any day for most casters. Another spell cast or +10 extra armor, ill take the last cast.

around · Nov 15, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

that isnt exactly the right comparison. the + ene armor is super useful on almost all classes. i woudl take ene armor over phys any day for most casters. Another spell cast or +10 extra armor, ill take the last cast.

So would you take and stick to 15/-1 weapons for that extra cast?

LightningHell · Nov 16, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucifix

that isnt exactly the right comparison. the + ene armor is super useful on almost all classes. i woudl take ene armor over phys any day for most casters. Another spell cast or +10 extra armor, ill take the last cast.

I'll just quote my last post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

+Energy will only sustain you in battle for...a tiny bit longer, and if you have energy management, you won't need the +Energy, and a +AL/+HP mod would be better.

CrystalMeep · Nov 16, 2006, 05:04 AM // 05:04

+HP and +AL both have their place in battle. When faced with degen or armor ignoring damage, I want HP on my armor/weapon. When faced with something my amor can handle, I want more AL. This is why some of us have more than one set of armor. As for the bashing for +energy mods? I find those useful. I mean, for my dervish, if I wanted to be in an avatar mode that costs 25e (which is my entire energy bar if I don't have +energy mods), I want some energy on my side so that I can dish out skills.

LightningHell · Nov 16, 2006, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrystalMeep

+HP and +AL both have their place in battle. When faced with degen or armor ignoring damage, I want HP on my armor/weapon. When faced with something my amor can handle, I want more AL. This is why some of us have more than one set of armor. As for the bashing for +energy mods? I find those useful. I mean, for my dervish, if I wanted to be in an avatar mode that costs 25e (which is my entire energy bar if I don't have +energy mods), I want some energy on my side so that I can dish out skills.

I should include in my post that it excludes some cases such as Dervishes, Warriors.

Although +10 Phys is very useful on a 70 AL...

Jetdoc · Nov 16, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Can someone please explain to me how HP mod helps you in any way in pve? From where I stand 30 extra HP doesn't make a squat of difference unless you are facing a spike, which you likely aren't in pve. When your healers run out of energy is when you're gonna die in pve and 30 HP isn't gonna matter at that point.

Generalizations will, more often times than not, get you in trouble.

In your post, you simply assume that you have healers in your party that will simply not let you get to the point where your 30 extra health is meaningful.

Some flaws in this thinking:

1. Some players are unable to team up with either (a) enough healers or (b) competent healers. I personally would rather have that extra little health buffer when I'm playing with hero or henchmen monks, or the occasional scary PvE PuG. Just think Forrest Gump...

2. People die in PvE. I am a testament to that. That doesn't mean that your healers are terrible - it means that they are limited in what they can do. Sometimes that extra 30 health gives them that 1-2 seconds needed to save your butt from death.

3. Some players prefer to play in less than maximum-sized groups, including soloing areas and 2-3 man teams. In many of those instances, that extra health assists you in staying alive longer when facing the four damage types that are described above.

I personally believe that defense mods and fortitude mods have very similar utility, for different reasons. If you're disciplined enough to carry both and can timely weapon switch, the best course is to use an armor mod for the majority of the battle and switch when your health gets low.

Personally, I'm simply too lazy (and too inventory challenged) to carry both an armor and a fortitude mod, and I'd rather have the mod that provides me the most utility in all situations in fortitude.

But then again, as I've said many times (and Ensign alludes to above), it's simply preference.

Fury Incarnate · Nov 19, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

In my PvE experience, the +30 hp mod on my Drago's Flatbow has saved me more times than I can count. So has my +5 armor eternal bow. I solo-farm a lot (yes, on a ranger), especially in the FoW, and there are times when I have been reduced to literally 10 health or less, mostly through degen. Now, since FoW has the 1k entry fee, not dying is definately a good thing, and without that thirty extra health, I would be sitting back in town. Or I'll have 4 clicks of degen and 30 health, so and I need to use Troll Unguent, but I have a 37-dmg SS on me. Again, switching my Fort bow on gives me that extra second or two i need to not die. Other times, I'll be running a particular area with no degen and the +5 armor will help keep me on my feet longer than any +30 mod would. My point is that either a health or an armor mod is good, but to assume that one is better in all circumstances is ridiculous.

XvArchonvX · Nov 19, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

umm, am I the only one around here that notices that people get spiked in PvE too? Admittedly it's not always as efficient or organized, but it happens. On warriors, I don't think a +hp is needed, but softie casters benefit from havin a bit more leadway from my experience, especially if they start pickin up dp.

Darkpower Alchemist · Nov 19, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

I was spiked for -300 hp of damage today in the Sulfurous Wastes by 3 Dervish type monsters. PvE spiking happens, so throw that out the window.

My +30hp mod has saved me a number of times, but armor mods have their uses. Don't try to compare which is better, just except that they are both useful for the purposes they were intended for.

red13xx · Nov 19, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Well since I run solo and also pvp I would have to say life is more valuable..but the armor mods can be useful in certain situations as well. I have notice adding the +7 or +5 armor will make you almost invulnerable to cetain mid lvl farming...For instance 10 monsters acttacking you for 0 damage or witout the armor bonus 1 damage that is a big difference..in the end so it has its purposes

Ensign · Nov 19, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by martialis

The biggest reason, I think, is that at high armour levels, +5 armour makes very little difference.

Only because armor-ignoring damage becomes disproportionately dangerous to your character. You don't need more armor against damage that's already being heavily nullified, but more resistance to armor ignoring damage, in the form of health, is still valuable. If all damage is affected by armor, the value of additional armor does not vary with how much armor you have.

I don't think the difference is trivial at all BTW. It's a whole lot more clear in smaller scale combat, ala solo farming. There the armor is so much more valuable than the health and it smacks you in the face. You're in so much more control of the damage and healing and the difference between reduction and a bigger capacity is huge. Ditching the health parts for another 15-20 armor is a day and night difference, particularly on a caster. Forget health, give me armor.

Peace,
-CxE

Trakata · Nov 24, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

HP mods are overpriced.

Personally I find they amount to the same basic thing. Living longer. The difference is much more apparent in solo-farming, but for most situations the difference is trivial IMO. Carrying one of each would be good practice.

Yanman.be · Nov 24, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

In PvP? Not overrated.

In Pve? Get a green if you need health, make your own +5 AL if you want to mod a gold.

DoH · Nov 29, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

+Energy will only sustain you in battle for...a tiny bit longer, and if you have energy management, you won't need the +Energy, and a +AL/+HP mod would be better.

Assuming you're commenting on the +Energy phrase.

yes because warrior always have energy managment

LightningHell · Nov 30, 2006, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoH

yes because warrior always have energy managment

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I should include in my post that it excludes some cases such as Dervishes, Warriors.

It's just a few posts below my initial comment...

Maybe more than a few, but still. I understand someone not reading all of "Why Nuking Sucks", but this is just two pages.

Francis Crawford · Dec 02, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

It's a little different now that we have heroes -- who can't weapon-swap anyway -- and give them tons of good-not-great stuff because that's all that happens to be in inventory at the time.

But basically in PvE I've always felt that the fraction of damage (including lifestealing and degen) that's armor-ignoring is too low to trump what is otherwise the obvious superiority of armor.

Now, maybe there are specific mobs for which that's not true -- e.g., ones heavy with necros and mesmers -- but on the whole that's the way it usually works out.

Warriors, paragons -- armor is clearly better against them.
Rangers and assassins -- armor is almost always better against them
Elementalists and ritualists -- armor is always better against them

Necros, mesmers, smiting monks -- HP is usually better, but sometimes they focus so much on their physical attacks that armor is actually better even against those classes

Dervishes -- I don't have the experience to judge