Curse

Sqube · Dec 26, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Anybody know what kind of damage [skill=text]Desperate Strike[/skill] does if you don't meet the HP requirements?

With a 6 second recharge, it seems like it might be alright.

Yanman.be · Dec 26, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

It won't give any bonus damage.

AuraofMana · Dec 26, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

I ran a Desperate Strike build before with 16 Daggers (which you need at least 83% or so health to get the bonus). It's great on paper, seeing how you deal loads of damage, but most likely a Sin shouldn't be under fire for long:
1. You shouldn't be tanking.
2. You wouldn't last long if you were tanking.
3. Most Monks like you fat and healthy.
So... it only works about the first time (if you use something like Demonic Flesh + Blood Renewal before you charge in) and then maybe once or twice after that (you probably won't get a second hit in after you start taking fire due to a 6 second recharge. It might not seem much, but I doubt most Assassins can take spiking for 6 seconds without Monk assistance, and you can't be sure the Monk won't be healing someone else atm).
So overall it's not that great of a skill, but then again, there are a lot of skills with potentials most people don't like for w/e reasons. Someday someone will come up with a great build centered around Desperate Strike, so it's not all that bad.
I had a weird thought typing that last sentence... this is a retarded idea but heck it would be funny.
MM with OOU and Desperate Strike XD
I like my Necro =)

Kaleban · Dec 27, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Destro Maniak, misusing Palm Strike like that makes me puke. Also, critical strikes higher than DM makes me puke. Now I just lost my appetite and I got a fever. thanks.

HAHAHAHA Lol. Thanks, that was awesome.

You want to kill quickly? Try this on the 100 AL dummy with a pair of Vampiric daggers:

Siphon Speed or Expose Defenses
Burst of Aggression
Black Spider Strike
Twisting Fangs
Black Lotus Strike
Blades of Steel or Death Blossom (BoS gives *slightly* higher damage, DB statistically will hit for more due to AoE)

Almost invariably, with a 16-13-4 spread, I kill the target before BoA's 5 seconds are up. Then, throw in Flourish, and you're ready to go again. For PvP, pack a Rez Sig, if you don't need a Rez, such as for AB, then pack both hexes. Thi is my favorite sin build atm, although I am experimenting with All-Deadly Arts builds too.

Wilhelm · Dec 27, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Burst of Aggression
Black Spider Strike
Twisting Fangs
Black Lotus Strike
Blades of Steel or Death Blossom (BoS gives *slightly* higher damage, DB statistically will hit for more due to AoE)

The most overused combo atm.

Sqube · Dec 27, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

The fact that it's frequently overused doesn't make it any less effective.

Kaleban · Dec 28, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

The most overused combo atm.

Oh, my bad. Is this the point at which you add something useful to the discussion, or just state something with no evidence whatsoever?

Chamber Asgardian · Dec 28, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhelm
The most overused combo atm.

Oh, my bad. Is this the point at which you add something useful to the discussion, or just state something with no evidence whatsoever?

Lol Does he need evidence? All you have to do is go into RA or AB and you'll see hundreds, no wait, thousands of sins using that combo. Thats the cookie cutter build duh....

Kaleban · Dec 28, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chamber Asgardian

Lol Does he need evidence? All you have to do is go into RA or AB and you'll see hundreds, no wait, thousands of sins using that combo. Thats the cookie cutter build duh....

Huh, that's funny. Usually when I join a RA match, the most number of people in game is 8, and 24 in AB, and they're not all sins.

And TBH, I've seen a lot more Siphon Strength and the ole AoD/GPS/HoTO combos than hex based off-dual 4 skill combo sins.

But I guess I'm too nub to see the avalanche of sins that you guys are seeing, right?

Yanman.be · Dec 28, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Kaleban, there simply are alot of people (ab)using that combo.

Kaleban · Dec 28, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Yanman, that may be the case, but calling something effective overused is retarded IMHO. Its like saying "Oh this works great! But I refuse to use it, because I'm too 1337 for it."

And to be honest, I've seen a lot more sins using either oddball combos in AB, or the old AoD combos because of how easy hex removal is nowadays. Unless you're a good sin and can isolate your targets, and always bring two hexes, you are largely ineffective compared to many other builds. Heck a Deadly Arts build I've been testing crushes other sins and wammos, and isn't susceptible to Blind.

I just take offense to useless posts I guess. Posting something that doesn't contribute to the discussion is obnoxious and just upping your post count. BTW Yanman, this wasn't directed at you!

AuraofMana · Dec 29, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

I need to test both my build and the "cookie-cutter" build sometimes to compare the damage...

OK! Tested on 100 Armor target outside of Balth.

Most popular combo (I DID NOT use an IAS):
Any Hex -> Black Spider Strike -> Twisting Fangs -> Black Lotus Strike -> Blades of Steel

My combo:
Unsuspecting Strike -> Wild Strike -> Horns of the Ox -> Falling Spider -> Twisting Fangs

I killed armored target in 1 combo while the popular combo barely broke 75%.
Then again, I have no IAS skills and takes 5 attack skills and more energy while the popular build takes 4 + a hex and less energy due to energy gain.

-.- · Dec 29, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Popular build has better survivability.

Kyle · Dec 29, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

ill admit it. i use the "popular build". And its effective but you dont feel good using it because everyone and their dog uses it so you dont stand out and people say wtf just hit me. But yeah it works and energy is great.

I dont think ive used a lead since i was level 4 or something. They need to make better leads for them to be used

Sqube · Dec 29, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Well, until we get a new lead attack (day after never), I've gone ahead and decided to join the hex --> [skill=text]Black Lotus Strike[/skill] --> [skill=text]Twisting Fangs[/skill] crew.

However, I'm trying to cap [skill=text]Moebius Strike[/skill]; I think the recharge of attack skills will allow me to go back to BLS, giving me the energy necessary to go through the whole shebang again.

I'm having a hard time with The Eternal Grove, and I apparently need to beat it. Damn gates...

Yanman.be · Dec 29, 2006, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Yeah Sqube. Bramble Everthorn is one hell of a bugger. He rarely drops the best daggers in the game ( Everthorn's Chakrams ) and he has my favorite elite dagger attack ( Moebius Strike ). Good luck!

Kaleban, I'm modding my sin into a dual hexer too. ( web of disruption and mark of instability ) The problem is if I should folow the trend of Black Spider Strike ( it won't work with mark of instability, because I'll be using Black Lotus Strike + Twisting Fangs and it'll remove my hex. Dilemma. I still think falling spider is better.

Kaleban · Dec 29, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Well, if you're running a build without any IAS, and need a hex, might I suggest go /Necro and use Parasitic Bond?

1 sec cast time, 5 energy and a 2 sec recharge makes it spammable, so you can tag multiple people with it, not only giving you a heal when it ends/removed/target dies, but since its spammable its not as obvious as a Dark Prison spike to a Prot monk. So you have a much better chance of shadow stepping in and getting your combo off before the monk can react.

It works even better if you have a necro on your team, because then the opposing team doesn't know if a Necro hex like PB is due to having a curse necro spam it, or as a precursor to a teleporting sin spike!

I find that a good combo with PB is a short two or three skill attack chain, followed by a fast recharging teleport. Here's an idea I've been throwing around lately:

Parasitic Bond
Shadow Walk
Dash
Expose Defenses
Black Spider Strike
Twisting Fangs
Assault Enchantments
OPEN

While this build does not due UBERWTFPWNZOR damage, and the recharge is 12-15 seconds, what it DOES accomplish is completely destroy any enchant based class, along with inflicting some severe conditions. The only counter is Blind and E-Denial basically. You hex everyone with PB, then ED the monk, warp in with Shadow Walk, do your combo, bypassing Aegis and Guardian, hit Assault Encants and Dash out, which cancels Shadow Walk, warps you an aggro bubble away and you're moving quickly.

You can do the SW combo every 30 seconds, which just happes to be double the recharge on AE. So every 30 seconds you can de-enchant a monk, whether a bonder, or some other enchant heavy class, like a Dervish.

I have started to use PB quite a bit, its very versatile, even at 3 Curses.

Yanman.be · Dec 29, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I <3 web of disruption at the moment.

AuraofMana · Dec 29, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Popular build has better survivability.

AOD = my survivability. I guarantee you that getting out of battle survives better than spamming Shadow Refuge (the worst self-heal in the game IMO).
And honestly, if you are playing Assassin, you are spiking a single target and run away afterwards. Trying to survive and tank is wasting the class's potential.
But you probably meant surviving after you got out from any degen and conditions. At times I use Healing Signet (which isn't really efficient, but you can't get great heal with just 6 attribute points left to spend in an attribute). I use Shadow Refuge for the fast regen. Most of the time I kill the lone target fast enough to escape. And in GVG, I hunt the NPCs, so =P
In AB and stuff, I suggest staying with your team so when you run back you got some sort of cover.

Quote:

I <3 web of disruption at the moment.

That skill is so awesome XD. Pisses people off too =P

Muk Utep · Dec 29, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

I tried a hex build in PvE. It didn't really work because any mob with a monk would remove the hex instantly, before I could even get off the first attack. I don't play an assassin in PvP so I don't know how it works there.