Curse

LifeInfusion · Dec 26, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

The only thing I use mesmer secondary for on my necro is for hex removal and arcane echo... so I'd say necromancer.

One of my guildmates solo runs Realm of Torment and Domain of Anguish on his Dervish...I don't have one so I cannot attest to its effectiveness.

Rangers are also very versatile, though mostly used for trap teams.

bleaho · Dec 26, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Just wanted to point out that the Mesmer do in fact have a healing skill. Ether Feast doesn't heal a lot, but it does heal.

I've created one of every class and played them all as "pure" classes to get a feel for their special attribute. Most of them are effective as a single class. The only one that I had problems with was the Assassin.

Now that we can control the henchmen and heroes, the Assassin is becoming one of my favorites. A very quick "soft target" killer, he is able to jump in and kill the monks, mesmers, necros, and elementalists with the heroes & henchmen tanking the Dervishes, Warriors, and other Assassins.

Neo Nugget · Dec 26, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Well id say dervish......very versitle. ive seen many solo builds and recently had a dervish run to droks and granite citidel.

Akshara · Dec 26, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

In my experience, Ranger is the most all around independent profession without using a secondary, and without requiring a specific build or set of circumstances (like 55 monks or necro MMs). When I read through the cons you listed for the ranger, honestly none of those have ever really caused me much of a problem - they do make sense on paper, but in actual gameplay they aren't really that big of a deal. That's my personal experience as a Ranger anyway.

The Dervish is also a good choice for indpendence, however I do die more with my dervish than with my ranger, probably just because I'm in the middle of the fray rather than on the periphery.

Maria The Princess · Dec 26, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Rangers.

with the right build rangers will beat any class 1v1 and they are not heavy wieght on any team since there pretty much self dependednt with ranger skills only

-they dont need BR

-since there in the back and have a good self heal they dont need as much healing

-they have the best armor in the game, 100 base vs elements+bonuses like +15 vs specific element or +10 vs physical insignias. ya wariors have 80 vs elements and more vs physical, but most of the damage in the game is elemental. physical damage is easy to avoid

-aside from being self dependednt they also help the team on damage, and protection (throw dirt, spirits, traps)

Bale_Shadowscar · Dec 26, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

I think that Rangers or Dervishes are probably the least dependent of the classes. They have a good variety of skills, including Self heals, AoE attacks, Spike attacks, defensive skills, skills that can cause a variety of conditions including Daze, running skills and power increasing skills. Rangers can also Interupt and drain energy, and Dervishes have high armor.

Mesmers are the most dependent, as they have few good self heals or condition removal, not a huge variety of defensive skills, few spikes, few AoE spells and quite a lot of spells that deal with energy draining which isn't really essential in PvE.

ensoriki · Dec 27, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Sins,monks,dervish,rit

most classes, can fall HARD if they dont have something to compliment them

W/mo is an example
A assassin can usually take down any warrior that isnt W/mo
even if they use evasion since expose defenses takes out block and evade

Eles are good with sandstorm and such aswell with sliver armor, but once again
a pure assassin build can take them down despite evasion, and with temple strike eles go down, however Earth ele is incredibly stand alone, but a E/D is way better at its job

Ranger
rangers seem versatile, but there not hard to kill pvp and pve, aswell that traps...can be interrupted....pretty much every class has a ranged attack
cept for Warriors I guess expertise allows them synergy with other classes but they should have a /X to compliment them

Monks
Smite monks do well on there own and healing/prot monks do there job without secondarys needed

Mesmer
You can run an all mesmer skill build, wont work that well simply for the fact
low armor,distortion takes energy AWAY, however with domination they arent that bad

Necro
Does fairly well, but tell me when you see a mesmer that doesnt have something to compliment them, and when it they dont, there usually not...of derv/sin/monk/rit qualitiy

Assassin: Fiegned neutrality allows for running away, shadow of haste+ dash lets you get away from pretty much ANYTHING, expose defenses makes immune to evasion, mark of instability allows for twisting fangs falling spider death blossom/blades of steel combo.....not given as much credit as it should tho

Dervish
Enchantments prolonge its life so well it can tank better then a warrior

Ritualist:
Spirit spamming takes care of itself, Restoration takes care of itself, Communing takes care of itself, Spawning takes care of itself

Paragon: ......mmm they can do things but not Supa fantastico without a secondary

Pick Me · Dec 27, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

I think Rangers, Dervish, Paragons, and the Necromancer are the best classes.

Overall, I go with the Necromancer. This may be a very bias opinion, but since I haven't played the Dervish or Paragon for a long time (as I have with the other professions) I like the Necromancer over them.

Necromancers have great self-heals, great curses, great ways to get rid of conditions. No hex removals, the ability to punish enemies for casting helpful spells on their allies.

Necromancers do not necessarily need to rely on minions to solo. Just watch their aggro, just like everyone else.

Since Necromancers do not always deal damage that is affected by armor, they can do a stead amount of damage to anyone. And while its best if you remove hexes than just counter them (like health degen), as a Necro, you have no other choice but to counter act their effects. Sure Backfire can do a number on a Necro, but then again, Soul Leech is your counter to that (sort of).

Anyway, other than the lack of true movement (no running), I think the Necro is the best solo character.

Sli Ander · Dec 28, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

So I come back from Christmas with the family, and Look! somebody ressed the thread! Anyway, I'd have to agree with the comments on the Ranger and Dervish. Out of the core classes, ranger takes the cake with the Jack of all trades approach( in addition to unique skills like traps[which mean you can do damage and be nowhere near the baddies]). Dervish has the great advantage of direct health management through enchant removal(as long as they have a skill to remove the enchants).

I can definitely see Necro's as coming a close second, but as I haven't played one much I find it difficult to see them surviving more easily than a ranger. While blood magic does allow direct health control, the lack of armor which they inherently have is a weak point the ranger makes up for.

Of course, any class in the hands of an expert will survive quite a long time(such as an experienced mm).

but that's just my two cents

What if... · Dec 28, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

I'm inclined to go for Dervish, Ranger, Warrior, in that order. These classes have the best health/damage mitigation skills and can use them without sacrificing too much offense. I know I'm sounding terribly redundant by saying this, but the Dervish deserves the top slot because of how difficult it can be to shut it down.

Rarely can one use a combination of anti-caster and anti-melee effectively enough to completely stop Dervishes and if a Dervish expects this and packs accordingly, then even those tactics will fail. With mysticism and proper skill choice, their enchantments will sustain them indefinitely. They have no problem dishing out damage either (wearying strike --> Mystic Sweep under Melandru's Avatar for example). This class is what silly wammo's believe themselves to be when they charge headlong into conflict (though a dervish acting like that will still find themselves eating dirt before long) and they skill have more options available to them via their secondary .

Rangers are very versatile, possess many sustainable defensive options, and can pump out strong damage with traps, and other similar attacks, but, limited to their own class skill selection, can't handle as much as the Dervish. Warriors are very much the same, but they have even less situational removal than rangers (if any).

This is a little off topic but I think when it comes to solo boss farming the mesmer has other classes beat simply because mesmers have the best direct counters to anything bosses might try (the class excels in single target shutdown). This in combination with stupid enemy AIs means that you'll probably have an easier time soloing things with this than you would any other option (the 1/2 cast time on boss skills makes fighting some elementalist bosses a nightmare though).

ensoriki · Dec 28, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

bah humbug no one sees Shadow stepping and Fiegned as survival...

Shadow step and fiegned once at 50/40% hp and run
+80 armor makes a big dif -_-

Shadow of haste + dash... means if your smart you wont die unless from degen....which if your smart you wont die from that either

Ergo...shadow steping pwns all.

Tarkin · Dec 28, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Ranger FTW, i dont play as ranger a lot but rangers have the best skills to survive and kill by yourselfs...
I read some people saying dervishs are good to survive... strip the enchants from the dervishs and you have a dead body at ground... you need other classes skills like obsidian flesh or SB to survive fighting against necros and mesmers with rent enchant skills... just to remenber we talking about using just the class skills not der/mon der/ele...

Sli Ander · Dec 28, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkin

Ranger FTW, i dont play as ranger a lot but rangers have the best skills to survive and kill by yourselfs...
I read some people saying dervishs are good to survive... strip the enchants from the dervishs and you have a dead body at ground... you need other classes skills like obsidian flesh or SB to survive fighting against necros and mesmers with rent enchant skills... just to remenber we talking about using just the class skills not der/mon der/ele...

Ummm.. dervishes gain health with every lost enchantment. It's not much, but its enough to keep them from beig dead bodies on the ground. Obsidian flesh and other skills which prevent enchant stripping counteract the whole point of losing enchantments to gain health.
And as I don't know much about dervishes or enchant removal skills, I just read through wiki and found no skills which would do more damage by removing enchants than Mysticism would repair.

At the very least, imo, it would give you a healthy chance to run away. I think you are confusing the way dervishes work to the way 55 monks work.

But that's just my two cents

Tarkin · Dec 28, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

Ummm.. dervishes gain health with every lost enchantment. It's not much, but its enough to keep them from beig dead bodies on the ground. Obsidian flesh and other skills which prevent enchant stripping counteract the whole point of losing enchantments to gain health.
And as I don't know much about dervishes or enchant removal skills, I just read through wiki and found no skills which would do more damage by removing enchants than Mysticism would repair.

At the very least, imo, it would give you a healthy chance to run away. I think you are confusing the way dervishes work to the way 55 monks work.

But that's just my two cents

Sure, sure i have a personal "impressive" healing dervish build, but dervish are melee... if you in trouble with your enchats ( cant cast them, strip of them, dazed etc...) you is a dead body at ground because you will stay ever at center of foes team...

Well, lets think if we have a team made just by a pure class, like 8 ranger or like 8 dervish, i still talking rangers are better, but with 8 dervishs... i agree dervsih is the second (by self) strong class...

Sli Ander · Dec 28, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkin

Sure, sure i have a personal "impressive" healing dervish build, but dervish are melee... if you in trouble with your enchats ( cant cast them, strip of them, dazed etc...) you is a dead body at ground because you will stay ever at center of foes team...

Well, lets think if we have a team made just by a pure class, like 8 ranger or like 8 dervish, i still talking rangers are better, but with 8 dervishs... i agree dervsih is the second (by self) strong class...

So what you're saying is that if you're build is countered, you're dead? I don't know much about dervishes, but the same counters would work on Monk healing and Necro blood magic. Rangers can't heal themselves if they get troll ungeunt interrupted or their spirit destroyed.
Also, since scythes are designed to hit multiple enemies, being in the center of combat is a great place for a dervish to be, though for the sake of the topic not necessarily lending to survivability.

I think, however, the reasons that Dervish and Necro are being touted as independent classes are because of their ability to deal damage and still utilize built in healing. Rangers win their position in most peoples minds by sheer versatility. Their healing may not be the best out there, but elemental armor and an assortment of other abilities make up for the lack thereof(without having to constantly be put in danger, like a warrior does)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensoriki

bah humbug no one sees Shadow stepping and Fiegned as survival...

Shadow step and fiegned once at 50/40% hp and run
+80 armor makes a big dif -_-

Shadow of haste + dash... means if your smart you wont die unless from degen....which if your smart you wont die from that either

Ergo...shadow steping pwns all.

Unfortunately I don't know much about Assassins, which would be the reason I didn't think as long about shadow stepping.Do any other experienced Assassins have any comments on this? I don't feel qualified to place an assassin due to my lack of knowledge in this area(though I will study up on the skills)

But that's just my two cents

Pick Me · Dec 29, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

So what you're saying is that if you're build is countered, you're dead? I don't know much about dervishes, but the same counters would work on Monk healing and Necro blood magic. Rangers can't heal themselves if they get troll ungeunt interrupted or their spirit destroyed.
Also, since scythes are designed to hit multiple enemies, being in the center of combat is a great place for a dervish to be, though for the sake of the topic not necessarily lending to survivability.

I think, however, the reasons that Dervish and Necro are being touted as independent classes are because of their ability to deal damage and still utilize built in healing. Rangers win their position in most peoples minds by sheer versatility. Their healing may not be the best out there, but elemental armor and an assortment of other abilities make up for the lack thereof(without having to constantly be put in danger, like a warrior does)

Unfortunately I don't know much about Assassins, which would be the reason I didn't think as long about shadow stepping.Do any other experienced Assassins have any comments on this? I don't feel qualified to place an assassin due to my lack of knowledge in this area(though I will study up on the skills)

But that's just my two cents

As Assassins go, Shadow Stepping is nice, and Feign of Neutrality is awesome. Sadly, you now have taken 3 skills off your skill bar (a shadow step, feign, run skill). Feign will end if you successfuly hit with an attack or use a skill. If you add Shadow of Haste with Dash, then you run like the wind and take up a total of 4 skills, thus either have a rez + 3 attack skills or 4 attack skills. I know that you don't need a lead attack, but you do need either a hex or enchantment (which would be a waste for SoH), so you have 3 attacks (1 should be mobious strike) and 2 other attack skills (twisted fangs is a good dual attack).

Therefore, when you are running away and healing yourself, your target can heal themselves too.

Assassins are for getting in, attacking, then getting out without dying. Too many people over extend their welcome in the battle and die.

People don't see an Assassin as a survivor because:

1) Feign Neutrality never existed in Factions
2) too many people tank as an Assassin - a BIG NO NO!!!
3) no hex removal and blindness kills.

Hope this helps you better understand the Assassin a bit better Sli.

P.S. I have an Assassin, but I know there are better and more knowledgeable Assassins that can give more details (I defer to Yanman.be).

ensoriki · Dec 29, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

to give more shadow stepping detail

in pve if your fighting with henchies/hero's you don't need a rez
giving all 8 skill slots at your disposal

at 8-10 shadow arts you can use shadow of haste from a far distance run up attack and dash out use fiegned or shadow refugee as you wish, because of poisoning the opponent cannot heal themselves naturally and either dies , or you rush in f or a second attack.

all you have to do is get the poison off for them to die, you don't even need the full combo most of the time, this allows for picking off 1 enemy at a time
____________
skillz like dark escape half the damage you take while giving you a 25% speed boost this allows for a minimal damage escape then you heal off and your fine

Now im sure most of you are familar with the dervish mystic vigor, way of perfection is a more potent version of it (but you need to critical...which you should be getting anyways) This does allow the sin more Attack time as he/she can heal off small damage for a second while completing the attack chain then get out and heal

critical defenses has the potential to be a never ending evasion but you need to get a critical within 6 seconds (I've never had problems doing)

Shattering assault does +79 (at 16 dagger mastery) damage to anyone with an enchant and is a dual attack, so if someone has 2 enchants you will cause a massive spike and get out quickly

I also forgot to mention deadly arts
because there ranged spells, a assassin can cast the hexes/spells on a enemy and then run, my fav would be Crippling dagger + shameful fear +enduring toxin, the foe gets badly degened and cant touch you...incase of a mob you still pwn all

Tarkin · Dec 30, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Against level 2 4 6 foes, any dumb with any class can play solo...