Curse

The Hand Of Death · Nov 17, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Ranger.

Most of the time is fighting at a distance. Has great protective stances. Great elemental resistance. So-so healing. Great condition spreading. Pet.

Amity and Truth · Nov 18, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

I'll also hand in my vote for the Dervish.
A multitude of powerful self healing abilities, quite some damage and nifty utilities. Ebon Dust Aura [E] - every attack blinds, Harriers Grasp - every attack hitting a moving foe cripples. Plus a dervish can switch his damage type midbattle. So your normal scythe ain't doing a scratch? Fire up that enchantment and deal cold damage. Or holy damage. Or whatever damage.
Your enemy is heavy on enchantments? Let grenth deal with that.
You're facing heavy conditions? Wait, what conditions? Better ask Melandru.
You want some damage? Lyssa is your man. I mean, woman. I mean, twin thingie. Ah whatever.

Add in one of the best (imho) IAS Skills in the game - heart of fury and very easy to maintain Speedbuffs and you've got one well rounded class. They can do almost everything on their own and a good dervish almost never needs the help of a monk if he is prepared as to what he will be facing.
This also makes him somewhat like a mesmer or Assassin. You'll need to plan ahead to be self sufficient. And managing all those enchantments will ultimately turn confusing if enemies start removing them left and right. If someone doesn't know what he is doing, he'll hit the dirt quite often and real soon. Once he starts to grasp the class it's very close to being imba.

Mostly spoken from a PVE point of view though.

arcanemacabre · Nov 18, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Honestly, I'd say it all depends on if you had the foresight of what you were going to encounter at any given point. If you did, Necro would probably be tops, as they can counter just about anything (like a Mesmer), but have solid defense/healing (unlike a Mesmer). If you didn't, a generic Ranger build would probably be best.

The Dervish and the Warrior are right behind the Necro and Ranger. Both are solid classes with lots of tools at their disposal and can be either super-tough to kill, dish out lots of damage, or somewhere in-between.

exiled mat · Nov 18, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

I'll also hand in my vote for the Dervish.
A multitude of powerful self healing abilities, quite some damage and nifty utilities. Ebon Dust Aura [E] - every attack blinds, Harriers Grasp - every attack hitting a moving foe cripples. Plus a dervish can switch his damage type midbattle. So your normal scythe ain't doing a scratch? Fire up that enchantment and deal cold damage. Or holy damage. Or whatever damage.
Your enemy is heavy on enchantments? Let grenth deal with that.
You're facing heavy conditions? Wait, what conditions? Better ask Melandru.
You want some damage? Lyssa is your man. I mean, woman. I mean, twin thingie. Ah whatever.

Add in one of the best (imho) IAS Skills in the game - heart of fury and very easy to maintain Speedbuffs and you've got one well rounded class. They can do almost everything on their own and a good dervish almost never needs the help of a monk if he is prepared as to what he will be facing.
This also makes him somewhat like a mesmer or Assassin. You'll need to plan ahead to be self sufficient. And managing all those enchantments will ultimately turn confusing if enemies start removing them left and right. If someone doesn't know what he is doing, he'll hit the dirt quite often and real soon. Once he starts to grasp the class it's very close to being imba.

Mostly spoken from a PVE point of view though.

I full agree to this point. I've started my dervish with the question: what secondairy should i choose?, but i'm still a PURE dervish after getting the monk secondairy for condition removal, hard res, and some "poor" selfheal...
All in all, my dervish with the same 70 armor as my assassin, lives WAY longer, and can stay in the fray, while not being as fragile when interupted

(i DID tank once with my assassin, but i've learned my lesson

)

pjfresh · Dec 26, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Rangers. I mean, they're rangers... they can survive in anything

It's my favorite class to play, so I am a bit biased. But, seriously, PvE wise, I am consistantly one of (if not the) last person to be targeted, and when it comes to this, I 'Storm Chaser' it on out of there and return to res my team (gotta love all the impatient people though - "Just die!"). If some melee mobs charge me - Throw Dirt, Whirling, Dryder's, etc. Troll is great to negate the effects of degen, too, if it doesn't get interrupted/you cast it early enough. As mentioned, there are a few good speed boosts to escape the enemy. Inherent elemental dmg reduction in armor, too. Antidote sig. works well for condition removal, just has lengthy cast time. Really great class to play though.

Oddly enough, rangers are probably the least popular pick come group time, lol. In a toss-up w/ mesmers, they are the true unsung heroes of PvE groups (in terms of the original 6 classes).

To this day, the funnest PUG I was ever in was an 8-man ranger group at THK. Good times.

Redfeather1975 · Dec 26, 2006, 10:08 AM // 10:08

This might sound funny, but I'm going to say Ritualist.

I think the only ability ritualists lack is hex removal. They can do nice self heals, continuous direct damage, various AOE damage, interrupts, knockdowns, energy management, summoning, they just can't remove hexes as far as I know.

random.name · Dec 26, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

I personally feel that a warrior is the best as soloing. Dolyak + Healing sig completely removes the armor penalty.

Just one thing I need to point out... Mesmer is also a viable soloing class. Heard of illusion of weakness anyone?

freekedoutfish · Dec 26, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

I think the simple answer is this;

If your going solo farming or working alone for what ever reason, then your more likely to need a secondary class such as monk to heal yourself if your profession has no healing or protection.

But if your in a party with other professions to help and protect and heal you, then most classes could probably manage without secondary skills.

All professions probably work fine using their own skills, without adding secondary ones.

I only use one skill from my secondary most times (if at all) and I manage fine.

It all depends what your doing and whether you have access to skills you'd need.

If you someone else who can provide those skills, then you dont need them personally. If your alone, then you might need to bring them yourself.

You cant really choose one profession to single out.

Avarre · Dec 26, 2006, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Dervish. Of all the classes (concerning GvG), it is the probably most capable on a split with primary skills - snares, hex removal, speed buffs, high damage, and so on, as well as being fairly hard to kill and quite mobile.

Warriors rely on secondaries to keep them clean, rits rely too much on holding position. Rangers are probably a close second to Dervishes.

Lexar · Dec 26, 2006, 12:01 PM // 12:01

In some cases you'd be better off with self-heals that can't be interrupted, or aren't spells, and then a lot of self-heals become useless, like facing ice imps with maelstrom. Stances that heal (melandrus resillience or conviction for example) or shouts that heal (vim, i will survive) are not as strong as spell-based self-heals but they're a lot more reliable in some cases, so it's a little easy to just give grades to professions on how they perform, it really depends on the situation which class is best. Troll's ungeunt isn't very practical for self-healing because of the long casting time, unless you always solo the same spot like some zombie and you know exactly to the milisecond what's going to happen up front, it's not very usefull.

Francis Crawford · Dec 26, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

An ether renewal elementalist can typically solo an area if and only if enchantment stripping isn't a big issue. (There are exceptions, of course ...)

However, if there's serious armor-ignoring damage and also serious interrupting you might need Mantra of Resolve. (If there's little armor-ignoring damage go old-school with Kinetic Armor and Armor of Earth, in which case Glyph of Concentration should suffice for anti-interrupt. If you need Stoneflesh Aura instead GoC won't cover everything.)

But Ether Renewal is the only powerful self-heal elementalists have.

Most of the skills in those builds are for defense, however, so their damage output is pretty blechy.

EDIT: Actually, Glyph of Restoration might rival Troll Unguent in a Searing Flames build. 1 second cast; a skill instead of a spell; 146 points of healing at Energy Storage 13 after you get your next SF off.

Redfeather1975 · Dec 26, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Yah, I've played a bit more of the dervish now and can see why people would say the Dervish.
They seem to have the ability to do everything in some way or another. Very cool.

quickmonty · Dec 26, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

I would say Necromancer. As a minion master, once you get your minion army started, you don't even have to get your hands dirty with fighting and the blood skills for stealing health and doing damage should keep you alive in a lot of situations.

Antheus · Dec 26, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Neither. Each class can and will be completely shutdown.

Ranger? How will you deal with hex, blind and cripple spam? Troll unguent for healing? Good luck against mesmers, rangers, KD warriors.

No class is self-sufficient on its own aside from primary/secondary class builds.

In group setting, rangers tend to be considered that, but that's due to balance of groups. While they might need little attention, that's only because they stay out of combat range most of the time.

MM? Um, no. Go start your MM army with only other MMs. In Realm of Torment. Also, what happens if there's no corpses?

When going for self-sufficient, secondary class and rest of group must be considered. Under that criteria, I'd vote Ranger (long range, away from combat, damage, shutdown, conditions, defenses) and Ritualist (backline, immunity to enchants, defenses, protection/attack, interrupt/KD/blind, hex removal).

I don't count monk under self-sufficient, since they cannot contribute as damage dealer and support at the same time (equipping smite on a healer monk doesn't make you damage dealer, neither does R8 gaze).

But the only truly self-sufficient classes are solo farming builds. A warrior in group tanking role can never even remotely be self sufficient (see mending wammo), or they aren't doing their job.

All of the above is for PvE only. In PvP, there just isn't a self sufficient class. It's just luck of the draw as to the opposition.

Deleet · Dec 26, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Rangers, Dervishes and Necros are good stand alone professions.

Avarre · Dec 26, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Each class can and will be completely shutdown.

Ranger? ...Good luck against rangers...

That is a high-quality circular logic. Please elaborate.

Moving to PvP, one of the benefits of Rangers is with natural stride (and if they run cripshot), they gain huge mobility only really matched with shadow of haste. In most cases, you don't want to stand around fighting anything that can kill you, because you can simply cripple it and pull out of range.

Once getting out of range, unguent can be useful, especially against the main form of continual damage while escaping - degen.

Quote:

All of the above is for PvE only. In PvP, there just isn't a self sufficient class. It's just luck of the draw as to the opposition.

Split builds tend to be designed for self-sustainment, either through defensiveness (E/D), mobility (A/X or X/A with SoH) or offence (YAA!). It is not so much the class as the build - but sin skills are the most common to be tapped for a skirmish character. As for a single class, I stick with my choice of Dervish overall.

SpeedyKQ · Dec 26, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

It depends on what you're doing.

For PVE play in groups, which is what I'm most interested in, I almost never put any points in my secondary profession, no matter what profession I'm playing.

Each profession has too many synergies between its own attribute lines, and the benefits from runes are huge. IMO if you're messing around with your secondary too much, you're trying to do a job that somebody else in the group can do better.

Soloing is a different story of course.

Nevin · Dec 26, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

R/W or W/R is the least dependent... With Strength/Wilderness Survival or Expertise/Tactics

Antheus · Dec 26, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

That is a high-quality circular logic. Please elaborate.

Ranger can interrupt your only self heal, since it's abominably slow cast. They can also cripple or blind you.

Keep in mind, this is about you being primary class only, and others can be anything they want. So you can be going against wild thingies removing your stances, hexes that slow you down and you can't remove, hexes that counter your attacks, all while having the same abilities that you have.

Self-sufficient doesn't mean you're running against a gimmick build, but those that can be realistically ran.

Mr_T_bot · Dec 26, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Dervishes have a nice range of abilities between their attributes that give them workable defense and healing. It also gives them decent offensive output. After Dervishes I would say Rangers due to decent defense and healing.

Monks are obviously superior because they are the only real healing class.