Curse

XvArchonvX · Dec 23, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadis

And how do you filter the people who have extensive Ranger experience, but chose to create a Canthan or Elonian Ranger simply due to liking the appearance options more than Prophecies?

The thing is, you can't. You can't know how "good" anyone is at a class until you play with them. Starting chapter means very little.

qft. Making generalized assumptions at face value with no interaction is foolish. Acting on them is even more foolish.

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 23, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Geez, do people ever do what the OP says, or do you all start jumping to conclusions and flame every damn thing that someone does or says?

I asked for people to place hybrid builds that they have experimented with while using their rangers, and what do I get? People talking about my opinion.

I edited the OP to explain better what I was looking for from this thread, yet what did I get? People still talking about my opinion, instead of what I asked for from this thread.

I never said that every Canthan ranger was horrible, I said that Canthan rangers don't have to use many of their skills, and thus, lack the experience of using their skills, unlike most Tyrian rangers I have played with. Experienced players should understand what I mean, but they are going for what is PC, and not even doing anything that I asked.

How hard is it to understand what I said? Am I not speaking english? I didn't say that every guy on the forum is a ranger genius. I said that I have gone back and forth with Archon, who I find to be "experienced" from what I know of him/her. Am I wrong in my assumptions,O Elite Guru? Have I been mistaken in the fact that what you have posted in the past means that you are not actually experienced with a ranger, and it is nothing more than a talented mascarade?

I doubt that is the reason for your words, but I refuse to dwell on it.

Can people actually follow the OP's stated purpose, and not harp on my Obvious Opinion. If anything, you guys who feel I'm wrong should post something that makes me actually look wrong.

Next build...

[skill=card]Disrupting Accuracy[/skill][skill=card]Critical Eye[/skill][skill=card]Savage Shot[/skill][skill=card]Crippling Shot[/skill][skill=card]Keen Arrow[/skill][skill=card]Shadow Refuge[/skill][skill=card]Dash[/skill][skill=card]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

This build is well suited for an A/R who specializes in Critical Strikes. With the maximum in Marksmanship(12) and Critical Strikes(16(12+1+3)) this can be one of the best pure Interupter/Damage builds while using CS for snaring and dash to reposition and to keep close to a kiting target.

If a Sin has access to all 3 chapters, then this build is very accessible. the use of critical eye, in conjunction with disrupting accuracy make for a powerful combo that makes for energy management and expanded interuption capability. Quite possibly making for a better interupter,potentially, than a primary Ranger.

The use of Keen Arrow+Savage Shot can make for a major spike against a caster and 2 interupts on even the fastest caster.

To add extra punch to the build, you could swap out Dash for Forked Arrow. Also, one could not use shadow arts and instead opt for Wilderness Survival and use the troll unguent instead, since it can't be removed. Comments? Additions? Next build?

Cathode_Reborn · Dec 23, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

I'd take out dash for sure, since you already got Cripshot. More damage would help, especially since it's a bow 'sin.

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 23, 2006, 10:33 AM // 10:33

[skill=card]Rampage as One[/skill][skill=card]Sever Artery[/skill][skill=card]Gash[/skill][skill=card]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill][skill=card]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill=card]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill=card]Charm Animal[/skill][skill=card]Apply Poison[/skill]

Rampaging Swordsman. I know that a hammer ranger is superior in all aspects, so let's just humor me for a moment. If you want an axe Rampager, then let's use this;

[skill=card]Rampage as One[/skill][skill=card]Dismember[/skill][skill=card]Agonizing Chop[/skill][skill=card]Axe Rake[/skill][skill=card]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill=card]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill=card]Charm Animal[/skill][skill=card]Apply Poison[/skill]

Or;

[skill=card]Rampage as One[/skill][skill=card]Executioner's Strike[/skill][skill=card]Dismember[/skill][skill=card]Disrupting Chop[/skill][skill=card]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill=card]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill=card]Charm Animal[/skill][skill=card]Apply Poison[/skill]

How about a R/A Dagger Rampager;

[skill=card]Rampage as One[/skill][skill=card]Golden Lotus Strike[/skill][skill=card]Wild Strike[/skill][skill=card]Death Blossom[/skill][skill=card]Whirling Defense[/skill][skill=card]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill=card]Charm Animal[/skill][skill=card]Disrupting Stab[/skill]

My point in these particular builds are simple, use weapons that aren't mainstream. Hammer thumpers are superior in damage output and pressure,however, these builds can still find use to others. These are more AB based, and can be tweaked for personal tastes. In explaination, Thumper builds usually have a 3 attack combo in most cases, and that works well with most Thumper style builds. The weakness of these types of builds are the pets. If the pet dies, RaO becomes useless. If RaO is useless, then things can get ugly.

Thomas.knbk · Dec 23, 2006, 10:44 AM // 10:44

That makes no sense. Why would you use a primary ranger with expertise and all adrenaline skills? It's just stupid. Also, you lose the KD's. People just need to acceptn the fact that a thumper is the best melee ranger around.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 23, 2006, 11:44 AM // 11:44

RaO axe rangers aren't bad, critical chop takes them up a notch, and their perma speed buff+IAS is really nice. Plus you charge adrenaline quickly with RaO, allowing you to spam deep wound, which is good pressure.

Basically his build, but less bad: RAO/dismember/critical chop/executioner's/distracting blow/charm/comfort/rez

It's not superstrong, but can be fun. and has no crappy defensive stances...who gives a crap about whirling on a rao ranger?

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 23, 2006, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

That makes no sense. Why would you use a primary ranger with expertise and all adrenaline skills? It's just stupid. Also, you lose the KD's. People just need to acceptn the fact that a thumper is the best melee ranger around.

Why not use adrenaline when you are building it? Your statement is what truely makes no sense. Also, didn't you read that I already said that the hammer thumper is superior?

As for WD, it is up to who wants to use it. if you don't, then don't. It's about a person's motivations, not your feeling at who cares about not getting hit.

The RaO builds are just more builds that people may have thought of, and what i find to have been fun to use in PvE with my ranger. Add to it, don't just critique. Enrich the youth.

G4ymBoy · Dec 24, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

I like this thread but do not know how to post builds like that so i will do it the old fashioned way.

i call it Judges Sunderer

Marksmanship 16

Expertise 12 or 13 (i cannot remember)

Smiting needs to be 8

Prepared Shot {E}
Penetrating Shot
Sundering Shot
Judges Insight
Read The Wind
Whirling Defense
Rez

it helps to have a forgotten longbow or any bow with Armor Piercing 20/20

Gameplay:

Before battle use RTW and then Judges, after Judges use Prep shot at 16 marks you should get 10 energy back making judges useable again, while judges is active spam Penetrating and Sundering and when judges is running out use Prep Shot to get energy for it, Rinse & Repeat.

This should be used wherever there are Undead enemies, for the simple fact that it has +60% armor piercing Holy Damage, Realm of Torment is a Joke with this build.

I have more to post later but i hope you like this one. Ciao!

Maria The Princess · Dec 24, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

the thing that makes Tyria rangers better is the fact that there is plently of free skills given. maby as new ranger u wouldnt buy them in elona/tyria and wouldnt try them in a new build. well, that excludes those who just buy all the skills, cuz skill are costing $$$

anouther thing is that when prophecies started rangers were hated as much as mesmers and were lucky to get in a team of wariors eles and monks. after the opening of B/P rangers all of sudden became popular and not much is demanded of them except B/P. now the tyria rangers are used to change builds often and will try diffrent skills, unlike alot of canthan and elonian rangers who would keep the same skill bar

Thom Bangalter · Dec 24, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

I have an awesome pve build:

Barrage/6 skills of your choice/rez.

You mostly spam your 1 key.

Franco Power · Dec 24, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I have an awesome pve build:

Barrage/5 charm animal.comfort animal skills of your choice/rez.

You mostly spam your 1 key.

Corrected

Solus_the_Deadly · Dec 24, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Yeh with average thumpers i found enegery mangement easy enought but my aderlaine took a while to build up ( for a thumper). All aderlaine skills just wouldn't work. A swordmans thumper couldn't use a shield and deals fair less damage so is also less affective. The hammer ( with a decent healer) works most affectivly same with scythe and daggers. But a swordman without a sheild spamming conditions just wouldn't work IMO.

Silk Weaver · Dec 24, 2006, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Nah, go 8 expertise with zealous hammer for the win!

Why do you like Whirling Defense so much? It's a crap skill without oath shot, so it's a bad skill without oath shot. Nothing else to it.

R/A? Here's two.

Mark of Instability
Shadow Walk
Black Spider
Death Blossom
Moebius
Horns (Spam combo on Archers/Knights)
Troll
Natural Stride

MMm, a less suicidal once (ie. with a rez0

GPS
Repeating (spam 5 for Archers, 3 for Bodyguard)
Horns
Falling
Tiger's Fury
AoD
Troll
Rez Sig

Okay, a third to prove that even though Dagger sins suck they suck less than your proposed builds.

Jagged
Wild
Repeating (spam)
Disrupting Lunge (optional)
RaO
Comfort
Char
Rez Sig

Although it cannot KD or spike, the use of Zealous Dagger mod, constant 33%IAS/Speed Buff, and spamming a +26 damage attack nonstop could lead to some decent pressure.

These are all just for fun of course. And I still think RaOs should have hammers. But Annnnyway. Those are your hybrids.

On the A/R:

Dshot, Savage, Keen Shot, Way of the Assassin, Critical Eye, Sharpen Daggers, Rez, (optional)

That's teh way to go. Much higher interrupt chance.

Edit:

As for discussion, what Maria seems to say is that an older player (who has played a variety of builds) is more likely to be better. In fact, experienced players are, in general better. That is true. However, to know that from simply where they are born is quite racist... yet it does have a point. In a PvE perspective, it is unlikely that they deleted their 12 months old Ranger just so they could get an Elonan face... possible, and does happen, but unlikely. You see a max level Tyrian Ranger with the old Droks armor (noone buys droks armor anymore, so you can tell from that they are LIKELY to be old players). And then you see some Elonan ranger with new sunspear armor. Which is more likely to be an old player and not just some "hey, I got Nightfall and 2 new slots, what should I make with it? Oh! I've never made a ranger before, lemme make one!" kinda person?

Rhetoric, of course.

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 24, 2006, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Nah, go 8 expertise with zealous hammer for the win!

8 Expertise isn't really as effective as a 9 or 12 in Expertise, so 8 may not be desireable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Why do you like Whirling Defense so much? It's a crap skill without oath shot, so it's a bad skill without oath shot. Nothing else to it.

Like I said previously, it's about the player's motivations. If you like getting hit the whole fight, then don't take the stance, or take the stance, and have some defense; or bring a self heal, or depend on your monk. These are all options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

R/A? Here's two.

Mark of Instability
Shadow Walk
Black Spider
Death Blossom
Moebius
Horns (Spam combo on Archers/Knights)
Troll
Natural Stride

Interesting. You have made a build that is totally hex dependent.

[skill=big]Mark of Instability[/skill]

The hex of choice. Unlinked? Very good choice.

[skill=big]Black Spider Strike[/skill]

Poisoned and hexed? Thats nice.

[skill=card]Death Blossom[/skill][skill=card]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill=card]Horns of The Ox[/skill]

This is a nice Dagger based build. Good pressure. Better on a primary, but definitly solid for a Ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

MMm, a less suicidal once (ie. with a rez0

GPS
Repeating (spam 5 for Archers, 3 for Bodyguard)
Horns
Falling
Tiger's Fury
AoD
Troll
Rez Sig

Better for a Gank sin, but without Critical Strike attribute, this ranger is spinning his wheels but has no real traction,imo. The previous is better for a ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Okay, a third to prove that even though Dagger sins suck they suck less than your proposed builds.

Jagged
Wild
Repeating (spam)
Disrupting Lunge (optional)
RaO
Comfort
Char
Rez Sig

Although it cannot KD or spike, the use of Zealous Dagger mod, constant 33%IAS/Speed Buff, and spamming a +26 damage attack nonstop could lead to some decent pressure.

For Dagger sins to suck, you have made a few solid dagger based builds. I can't agree with your inference, but I like what you have created,build wise.
Disrupting lunge is just too slow for me. I'd rather work the interupts from my ranger, since it is more accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

On the A/R:

Dshot, Savage, Keen Shot, Way of the Assassin, Critical Eye, Sharpen Daggers, Rez, (optional)

That's teh way to go. Much higher interrupt chance.

How is this better for an interupter? You have one solid interupt in SS. You take advantage of Critical Strikes, which would be better with more damage based skills. You have made a solid damage dealing build, but 1 interupt doesn't make an interupter. This a spike ranger if I have ever seen one. Still, I like its potential, though you overdo the CS abuse abit,imo.

[skill=card]Critical Eye[/skill][skill=card]Sharpen Daggers[/skill][skill=card]Way of The Assassin[/skill]

As can be seen by analyzing the skills in this build. I'm not knocking it, I just think you could take a Marksmanship Elite and be more deadly, like Burning or Punishing Shot. Just my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Edit:

As for discussion, what Maria seems to say is that an older player (who has played a variety of builds) is more likely to be better. In fact, experienced players are, in general better. That is true. However, to know that from simply where they are born is quite racist... yet it does have a point. In a PvE perspective, it is unlikely that they deleted their 12 months old Ranger just so they could get an Elonan face... possible, and does happen, but unlikely. You see a max level Tyrian Ranger with the old Droks armor (noone buys droks armor anymore, so you can tell from that they are LIKELY to be old players). And then you see some Elonan ranger with new sunspear armor. Which is more likely to be an old player and not just some "hey, I got Nightfall and 2 new slots, what should I make with it? Oh! I've never made a ranger before, lemme make one!" kinda person?

Rhetoric, of course.

Stating the hammer thing has been done, so no need to chime in on what I have already said previously, as well as what others keep saying. Hammers are better with RaO, and we all know it, so no need to keep repeating it. Racist? You mean Nationalistic. Maybe even Xenophobic, but not racist.

Canthan rangers are more my concern than Elonan rangers, since most are strictly B/P and will most likely not change. Elonan rangers will get addicted to Single target damage, like from Burning Arrow. I just want everyone to expand their horizons and use more of the skills available to us.

Good job,Silk. Also, the Judge's build is cool, but in DoA you may actually want Barrage in some places. The veil is mob dominated as I have seen so far.

Silk Weaver · Dec 26, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Actually, on the A/R, It has Distracting Shot and Savage Shot.

Well, yes, the former 2 Rangers are more my attempts to use a ranger for a gank build. The first is the most fragile, but, at the same time, most volatile. It can kill NPCs faster than a sins, but, due to its fragility, isn't, in this metagmae at least, a good choice.

When I say they suck, I'm using a top 100 perspective. Below that, I think skill counts far more than build.

I've tried those ideas on a primary, but BlackSpider>Twsiting and Spider>Twisting>Lotus>Blades is far better.

See, the good thing about R/As is Expertise and Zealous. Meaning all 5 energy skills cost, effectively, 1 energy. Using those same chains on an assassin may pose energy issues, which is why i find it viable on a Ranger. I dislike ideas like Critical Barrager because although they are both useful in PvE, an A/R is just a watered down version of a ranger, who can use MoP, Judge's Insight, etc etc etc.

With this build, it, while not superior to an assassin practically, not in this current metagame and skill balance update at least (the last one maybe), it has it's own advantages and disadvantages. It's not the same thing except slightly worse (ie. the difference of spreading bleed is so small it's insignificant on a barrager). This build does a lot more damgae a lot faster, has more speed boost, and kills hall NPCs much faster, but is far more fragile.

I don't believe it's worth it, but at least it HAS an advantage. In fact, I'm secretly quite attached to those builds, but I know it won't stand the rigor of high tier game play, so I keep quiet about them. Who knows, with a new metagame it may be useful.

And Tyrian is a race, right? Or, well, actually Ascalonan and Krtyans are races. What's the continent version of "racsist"? Dunno.

I use a large variety of builds, and most of them use skills for more than 1 campaign. To restrict oneself from a selection of skills is silly. I made sure I got access to most of the trainers asap with most of my characters.

If I were trapping in UW, I don't want my other trapper to say they don't have a skill because they haven't gone that far yet. It's good to know most if not all the skills open to you, and not just your primary profession only.

Heck, you should know every skill in the game just because it may be used against you.

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 27, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Heck, you should know every skill in the game just because it may be used against you.

QFT. I totally agree.

Program Ftw · Dec 28, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Ok, I'm confused, can some one point me in the right direction of what I am supposed to say?

This thread is about Tyrain rangers being better than Elonian or Canthan ones? Or nub Rangers, or....

/Help

Thanks,
Program~

Solus_the_Deadly · Dec 30, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Who knows, he completey changed the topic.

XvArchonvX · Dec 30, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

Ok, I'm confused, can some one point me in the right direction of what I am supposed to say?

This thread is about Tyrain rangers being better than Elonian or Canthan ones? Or nub Rangers, or....

/Help

Thanks,
Program~

Yea, that's what I thought it was about at first, but I think it's just a general build discussion or somethin now.

Silk Weaver · Dec 30, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Well, that's the assumption right? That Tyrian rangers are less noob than Elonian and Canthan ones? Because they are.. less.. likely.. to be...?