Curse

XvArchonvX · Nov 30, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by nSin

I'm not a good elementalist myself, but my a friend of mine and guildmate is an excellent meteor shower nuker. The thing with it is, you don't cast it when the targets are moving, there's a point in the battle where they stand still and attack, if they're cluttered a GoR/echoed MS will kill all of them without them having a chance of retaliating. It's all about using it at the right moment. If all the meteor showers do hit, it's a very energy efficient skill, the only thing I dislike about it is that isn't doesn't work very well with a skill like SS.

Unfortunately the 5 second cast of MS leaves much of timing to luck. Unfortunately, even if you land every MS, you are still not doing much damage compared to other alternatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungusmaximus

QFT, it's all about timing, I use it different though, I use it as artillery before the fight starts. Meteor shower->attack from rest of group->aggro locked->renewed meteor shower. I totally agree with the critics that other skills d more damage, but knocked down foes don't kill ppl. 'meteor shower isn'' t a damage dealer IMO, it's a tool to prevent damage. Just like fire storm, I only use that to chase foes away from squishies, not to actually do much damage.
I saved many a monks ass with that trick. And it's still VERY useful to get those damn res shrines in AB battles, those NPC monks really hold their own, but when theyre knocked down they don't do much.

If knockdown is the desired effect, then Unsteady Ground is a better alternative. Toss in Eruption and you have knocked down attackers who are then blinded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

renewal+meteor shower is terrible, unless the rest of your team is bad.

If you are running a MS build, then GoR is probably the best elite to run with it. There is a reason that a GoR nuker was approved for Guild Wiki. The problem now is that MS nukers are simply not meeting the potential that they could meet with the newer alternatives out there (i.e. Searing Flames, Sandstorm, etc.)
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/E/Me_Heavy_Nuker

bungusmaximus · Nov 30, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

If knockdown is the desired effect, then Unsteady Ground is a better alternative. Toss in Eruption and you have knocked down attackers who are then blinded.

Whoah, I definitely must take a look at that combo, good call

.

Stormlord Alex · Nov 30, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

My Ele has yet to get Searing Flames (woe is me

), yet even before SF, there was only *1* place I ever used MS... and that was for destroying multi-monk mobs in FoW. So, to me, MS is still as 'worthwhile' as it was before...

Thom Bangalter · Nov 30, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

If you are running a MS build, then GoR is probably the best elite to run with it. There is a reason that a GoR nuker was approved for Guild Wiki.

Let's look at some of the other approved builds:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:W..._Vigor_Paladin
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:W...ort%27s_Knight
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:E/any_Gust_Support

Gust! Hundred blades! Kwality skills right there. The wiki builds aren't exactly benchmarks when it comes to build making.

Hella Good · Nov 30, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

@OP:

KD is all there is about MS. That and of course the few and far between low level targets. If you asking whether or not AoE KD is powerful, yes, it is powerful, but MS doesn't impress with DPS in the slightest.

Shalkia · Nov 30, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Wow I just can't believe what I'm reading. You guys must be button smashers.

In PvE, MS is the most devastating skill and can make hard battles incredibly short and easy if used properly. The AI is still not a human player, so whenever you pull a group of enemies (which is in my opinion the smartest thing to do - yes, even with heroes/henchmen), the monsters will most likely pack together and focus on the same target. Then, and only then, should you start casting the AE+MS+GoS+MS combo. And with 101 energy, I don't mind cancelling it to get a better shot. Yes, it can take up to 8.5 seconds to get it down, but with the double KD and massive damage while you spam SF on the same area, you're almost going overkill. Also, never do this at the start of the battle, let the AI cast their interrupts first.

Be careful here, I'm talking about end-game PvE areas. Everywhere else you only need SF+Glowing Gaze+LF/Fireball/whatever.

Dr Strangelove · Nov 30, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shalkia

Wow I just can't believe what I'm reading. You guys must be button smashers.

In PvE, MS is the most devastating skill and can make hard battles incredibly short and easy if used properly. The AI is still not a human player, so whenever you pull a group of enemies (which is in my opinion the smartest thing to do - yes, even with heroes/henchmen), the monsters will most likely pack together and focus on the same target. Then, and only then, should you start casting the AE+MS+GoS+MS combo. And with 101 energy, I don't mind cancelling it to get a better shot. Yes, it can take up to 8.5 seconds to get it down, but with the double KD and massive damage while you spam SF on the same area, you're almost going overkill. Also, never do this at the start of the battle, let the AI cast their interrupts first.

Be careful here, I'm talking about end-game PvE areas. Everywhere else you only need SF+Glowing Gaze+LF/Fireball/whatever.

Firstly, with the AI update, the monsters rarely pack up nice and neatly for AoE anymore, and if they do, they're relatively quick to move out of it.

Second, what in the name of all that is holy are you doing with 101 energy? That's a waste of attribute points, a waste of your AL, and, most likely with all of the sup runes you must be running, a waste of health. After you've burned all that energy in a battle, do you just sit and wait for a minute or two for it to come back? I'd be surprised if you're finishing any mission in under an hour with that strategy. There is NO reason to run around with that much energy.

Finally, as far as killing things goes, it's not as spectacular as the flashy animation makes it look. A casting of MS will do 357 damage if all 3 shots hit with adjacent AoE. Two of them together will do 714. Not too shabby, until you realize that that number will be reduced greatly by armor in high level areas. The adjacent AoE makes it near impossible to hit more than 3 targets or so. You can unleash this combo about once a minute, so you'd better pray it works the first time every time.

For sake of comparisn, let's take sandstorm. One casting will do between 420-730 damage if every shot hits with "at target location" AoE, the largest AoE available, the exact number depending on how many times you catch foes attacking. You'd have to be brain dead to not catch almost the entire mob in this spell, considering the size of the AoE. It can be cast every 20 seconds without any energy issues. Cast 3 times in a minute (not even bothering to echo it) You'll deal 1260-2190 damage. Most likely, this will wipe pretty much any mob, leave you with plently of energy and slots for utility, and keep you moving quickly. Finally, it casts in 2 seconds, making it much easier to aim and marginally harder to interrupt. Where does MS come out ahead here?

XvArchonvX · Nov 30, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Let's look at some of the other approved builds:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:W..._Vigor_Paladin
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:W...ort%27s_Knight
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:E/any_Gust_Support

Gust! Hundred blades! Kwality skills right there. The wiki builds aren't exactly benchmarks when it comes to build making.

The difference here would be that the renewal nuker build was one that was widely used before NF and considered one of the best fire builds by many next to the echo nuker. When was the last time anyone used gust in PvE?

Shalkia · Nov 30, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Where does MS come out ahead here?

MS comes out ahead with it's KD. And, yes, this is with the new AI. Packing up enemies still isn't hard if they run for the same target (on a pull), keeping them packed isn't hard if they can't move. MS is a shutdown and your job is to deal the maximum damage with your other skills (I use SF+GG and FB) while your enemies can't do anything at all.

For the info, I have 485 health and run a single superior rune: fire. By the way, how do you even get aggro as an ele in PvE with the new AI? Happened once to me... everyone else was dead. There's no way I would use that armor in PvP.

Saphatorael · Dec 01, 2006, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Why...

Why... do you guys compare MS to Sandstorm and SF?
It's a non-elite that lost a bit of popularity ages ago, versus 2 new elites that are quite common nowadays...

What a fair match >.>

Meteor Shower is on my elementalist her skillbar, and it works fine. Didn't even expect it to work that well; yes, the casting time is annoying at times, but just pick your targets well (talking about PvE... just target a cluster, cast MS, and during caster, 'call' the healer of the mob so the henchies will take that one down, letting the rest of the mob die to your MS... then just finish off the remaining monsters.

It still works... and it's a non-elite. So I usually bring it along, yes. Doesn't mean I use it each fight and wait to recharge before i go in for another round, I don't want to bore myself to death.

Francis Crawford · Dec 01, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

It's all about flexibility. If the enemies really could be trusted to stand still, MS Renewal nuking would beat Searing Flames, and various pure damage-over-time spells would beat Meteor Shower.

LightningHell · Dec 01, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

The difference here would be that the renewal nuker build was one that was widely used before NF and considered one of the best fire builds by many next to the echo nuker. When was the last time anyone used gust in PvE?

I think we should leave it as "Elementalists now have viable damage dealing applications in PvE, and now Meteor Shower is largely trash."

Ensign · Dec 01, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

The difference here would be that the renewal nuker build was one that was widely used before NF and considered one of the best fire builds by many next to the echo nuker.

What is commonly used, and what is actually good, are two very, very different things in this game.

Peace,
-CxE

Mesmer in Need · Dec 01, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scourgey

When you are too busy spamming searing flames, you don't really have time to use Meteor shower.

Meteor shower does have uses on builds and 3xKD is nice, it does work nice for ele spiking. After you cast it, you can cast some other damage skill for 2x100 damage when the first wave hits.

but once ur dont being gay and spamming sf, you can use ur ms to do legitamant damage (not an insult for you, just the stupid sf spammers in ra)

XvArchonvX · Dec 01, 2006, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I think we should leave it as "Elementalists now have viable damage dealing applications in PvE, and now Meteor Shower is largely trash."

agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

What is commonly used, and what is actually good, are two very, very different things in this game.

Back in the day when prophecies skills were all that were available it was a good build. Not the best of damage dealing perhaps, but it was good. After Factions and Nightfall, there are plenty of skills/builds that obviously outdamage this one, but that wasn't my point.

LightningHell · Dec 01, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

but once ur dont being gay and spamming sf, you can use ur ms to do legitamant damage (not an insult for you, just the stupid sf spammers in ra)

What's about damage being legitimate? So SF spammers now bend rules by spamming it?

Francis Crawford · Dec 01, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

I'm going to yell out a question here, because what I said kind of got ignored the first time.

DO Glowing Gaze AND THE BUFF TO Mark of Rodgort MAKE Renewal/MS A STRONG BUILD???

Let me remind you of the math:

Gross energy costs per 64 seconds or so:

10 -- Fire Attunement
100 -- MS x 4
20 -- GoR x 4
10 -- GoLE x 2
20 -- MoR x 2
40 -- GG x 8 (let's say that's how often you can get it off)

210 -- Total

Energy returned by GoLE -- 20 x 2 or so
Energy returned by Fire Attunement -- 4 + 8x4 + 2x5 + 8x2 = 62
Energy returned by Glowing Gaze -- 8x10 = 80

Net energy spent -- under 30

Total casting time -- 36 seconds, plus 14 aftercasts

That leaves room to, for example, add in 5-6 Fireballs, unless you want to account for realities such as moving-around time.

Searing Flames costs 45 energy to do the same damage GoR + MS can potentially do for 30 energy, giving it less potential damage. On the other hand, it can be spaced better in time, causing more MoR burning. On the third hand, there's knockdown. On the fourth hand, there's enemy kiting.

Personally, I find it frustrating and boring to cast 5-second Meteor Showers. But the raw damage potential is still quite non-trivial.

Ensign · Dec 01, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Back in the day when prophecies skills were all that were available it was a good build.

If you say so. I felt that it was pretty awful myself.

Peace,
-CxE

LightningHell · Dec 01, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

If you say so. I felt that it was pretty awful myself.

Peace,
-CxE

I was pretty content with spamming Heal Party.

Francis Crawford · Dec 01, 2006, 09:07 AM // 09:07

My pre-SF PVE nuking build was dual Attunements, Rodgort's Invocation, Incendiary Bonds, Fireball, and a spammable. Flame Burst if I thought anybody would get near me. Aura if there was room on the skill bar.

Things died.

SS surely killed faster, however, all else being equal.