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Oct 03, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06
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#1 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Warrior PvE build template (please read before asking for build help)
This is for PvE
- I thought it was pretty clear, but obviously not clear enough for some people. If you're using this material in PvP and people laugh at you, please don't PM me to complain. PvP is a completely different environment, where you actually have to deal with thinking opponents and real builds. -------- I've recently been getting PMs about builds, and there are always a lot of "critique this build" or "what's a good build" type posts, so hopefully I can save everyone some time. If you're one of the people that likes to try crazy/original/ineffective builds, don't bother reading any further, because I'm only concerned with how well the build works, as opposed to whether it fits some kind of roleplaying theme or other random criterion. Cookie-cutter builds exist because they work, end of story. I'm also not going to make disclaimers about how all builds can be good, or this isn't a definitive guide, blah blah blah. The bottom line is, if you're a beginner and your build doesn't look close to what I'm posting below, chances are good that you're doing something wrong. Finally, if you just want a build, now, without extra talk or any thought, scroll to the bottom. Basic PvE warrior template: IAS skill elite attack skill attack skill attack skill attack skill utility/attack skill utility/attack skill res 16 in weapon attribute 9+ str/tac for shield (obviously this is more flexible if you're using a hammer) remaining attributes based on skillbar The overall rule for a basic PvE warrior build: do whatever it takes to maximize your damage. IAS skills (pick one): --------------------- Flurry - lower damage, higher energy cost, and requires slightly more attention than Frenzy (only because you have to activate it more often, and the active/recharge ratio is 1:1). Frenzy - typically a bad idea for PvE, unless you're playing in an area where the incoming damage isn't significant anyway. Tiger Stance - its only drawback is that it never lasts long enough (either because you failed to hit, or just because it has a 20s recharge), but this is a rather serious drawback. however, most people do seem to prefer this skill over the two above. Tiger's/Bestial Fury - high energy cost, disables non-attacking skills for 5s, requires /R secondary and significant attribute investment to be useful. However, it's a spammable IAS skill that you can keep up for 90% of the time with 9 points in BM, without lowering your own damage or taking extra damage. An important thing to note is that this stance makes adren-based non-attack skills almost unusable, because it resets their adrenalin to 0 when it disables them, and they gain no adrenalin during the 5s recharge. EDIT: As of the 20060914 update, Tiger/Bestial Fury is no longer a viable IAS stance for warriors. Take Flurry or Tiger Stance instead. Elite Attack Skill (pick one): --------------------------- [Swords]: Hundred Blades: Largely worthless for high-level PvE, as it doesn't do enough damage. If you have a build (or a teammate's build) that can take advantage of the large number of hits this skill can put out, you might consider taking this. Otherwise it's just a novelty for low-level missions. Quivering Blade: Spammable elite attack. Works best when used alone or with one or two other low-adrenalin skills. Inferior to Dragon Slash when used with a bar full of high-adrenalin attacks. Dazed condition can be useful when coupled with Plague Touch. Dragon Slash: Sword elite of choice, and one of the best elite attacks for high, sustained DPS. Does not play well with Final Thrust. Bring high-cost adrenalin attacks such as Galrath/Silverwing Slash to take full advantage of the massive adrenalin gained from this skill. [Axe]: Cleave: Read Quivering Blade, without the part about dazed. Eviscerate: PvP elite of choice, and excellent for PvE as well. Whether you take this or Triple Chop depends on the rest of your build, and what you're going to be fighting. EDIT: As of the 20060914 update you are probably better off with Cleave + Dismember for PvE, unless you cannot spare the skill slot. Triple Chop: Elite cyclone axe. Like cyclone axe, excellent for adrenalin gain in areas with high monster density, except it does damage like executioner's strike (ie. high). Pretty much requires a zealous weapon when used in conjunction with other energy-based skills. Inferior to Eviscerate when facing small groups. Whirling Axe: Ultraspam version of Cleave. There isn't a lot of blocking in PvE so you can usually use this with impunity (watch out for monks spamming Shield Guardian). However, as with other low-adren spam skills, it doesn't work well with other adren skills, so I tend to avoid taking this skill. [Hammer]: Backbreaker: Adren cost is extremely high, and as a result is not often used. Devastating Hammer: 7a knockdown that adds weakness, which sets up for other hammer attacks like Auspicious Blow (gain energy), Fierce Blow (extra damage), and Heavy Blow (knockdown). Hammer skill of choice for most PvP hammer warriors ... PvE is hard to say, because very few PvE warriors use hammers. Earth Shaker: aoe knockdown. If you take this, consider taking Crude Swing as well. can be interesting when combined with other aoe skills like Aftershock. Otherwise it's a decent tool for keeping enemy groups on their backs. Enraged Smash: Spammable elite attack. Conditional damage with no knockdown. Works best when put on a bar with other low-cost adrenalin skills that you don't intend to use often. Can result in insane, sustainable DPS with the right skill bar (try for skills with 4a costs or lower). Forceful Blow: Extra damage with weakness, which like Devastating can be followed up by other hammer attacks. Relatively low-cost, but has no knockdown, and knocks you down when evaded. Just stay away from rangers :P [No Attribute]: Skull Crack - If you can't get any other source of dazed on your team, Skull Crack can be used with good effect against caster bosses to make them much, much easier to kill. Almost completely useless otherwise, and overall a poor skill regardless. Think hard before slotting this as your elite. Attack Skills (pick 3~5): -------------------------- Not going to say much about these, because there are simply too many skills and most of them don't require comment anyway. I'm mostly just going to post a list of good choices, with maybe a note if I feel one is necessary. [Sword]: - Galrath/Silverwing Slash - sword bread&butter damage skill - Sun and Moon Slash - low damage, but gets around block/evade and is worth 2a instead of the normal 1. - Standing Slash - basically 6a Galrath, since you're bringing an IAS stance (right?) - Sever Artery - bleeding - Gash - deep wound, require bleed (ie. bring sever if you bring this) - Final Thrust - Savage Slash - 0.5s interrupt, but it has high recharge and energy cost. If using Dragon Slash, you're better off with Galrath, Silverwing, and Sun and Moon. If you're uncomfortable without a deep wound on your bar (I know I usually am), take Sever and Gash, although keep in mind that Sever doesn't take full advantage of the adrenalin from Dragon Slash. Final Thrust and Dragon Slash should not be on the same bar. [Axe]: - Executioner's Strike - axe bread&butter damage skill - Penetrating Blow/Chop - useful if your strength is low, otherwise avoid - Cyclone Axe - useful for gaining adrenalin, relatively spammable. Bring a zealous weapon. - Dismember - deep wound - Disrupting Chop - adrenal-based interrupt + disable for 20s My recommendation is Exec + Penetrating + Cyclone. If you're not bringing Eviscerate you can put in Dismember if you really want a deep wound. Disrupting Chop is an excellent interrupt. It requires a bit of experience to use, since you need to use it pre-emptively against faster skills like Orison (meaning you have to predict the next spell), but it's the only warrior interrupt that comes with a disabling effect. [Hammer]: - Auspicious Blow - energy management, high adrenalin cost, requires weakness - Crushing Blow - take it - Fierce Blow - extra damage against weakness - Heavy Blow - knockdown against weakness - Irresistable Blow - thump thump thump. unconditional damage with a "block" punisher. - Renewing Smash - I only mention it as a possible combo with Tiger Stance - Staggering Blow - applies weakness, if you're not bringing Devastating or Forceful - Yeti Smash - aoe damage, the gimped hammer version of cyclone axe - Crude Swing - usually a bad skill. however, if you have some way to avoid being hit, this can be decent. Irresistable Blow was nerfed in the 20060914 update, but it's still a decent block punisher. A knockdown skill and Crushing Blow are must-have for most hammer builds. If using Enraged Smash, it's not necessary to bring any other hammer skills. Devastating -> Crushing -> Heavy -> Fierce is ridiculous damage and includes two knockdowns. [Strength]: You usually should not bring any strength-based attacks in PvE. A number of them are very useful in PvP, such as Bull's Strike, Protector's Strike, etc. Bring Wild Blow for special cases where you absolutely must take down a stance (ie. a special boss stance like Battle Scars). Using Power Attack will usually get you laughed at by anyone who knows what they're doing. [No Attribute]: - Distracting Blow - 1/2s aoe interrupt, low energy cost, reasonable recharge. The gimped warrior version of Cry of Frustration. Although it does no damage, you do gain adrenalin for each enemy you 'hit'. I almost always take this skill. Utility Skills (pick 0~2) -------------------------- There are too many to list individually. Basically, these can be defensive skills (Endure Pain, Defensive Stance, "Watch Yourself!", "Shields Up!", etc.), self-heal (Healing Signet), adrenal boosts ("For Great Justice!", "To The Limit!", etc.), a speed boost (Sprint or Rush), or anything that combos well with the rest of your build or your team. Most people take "Watch Yourself!" and Healing Signet everywhere - I don't, because I think it's unnecessary with a good monk. My advice is to use your own judgement - if you can get good monks, leave the defense at home, otherwise bring some insurance. Weapon Choice -------------------------- This matters much less than most people think. I don't like hammer in PvE mostly because of the armor and health penalty from not wearing a shield, but it's definitely viable if you put some thought into it (knockdown builds involving "On Your Knees!" and a spam stance can work quite well, for instance). I personally prefer sword for high-level PvE, because of Dragon Slash. Secondary Profession? -------------------------- The perceptive reader has probably already noticed that I make no mention of secondary profession skills. This is because warriors rarely have use for their secondary in general PvE, wammos notwithstanding. However, there are some common utility skills like Plague Touch (N), Mend Ailment (Mo) and Rebirth (Mo) that consistently find their way onto warrior skillbars. These are all fine skills, but again, they should all be unnecessary with a competent monk. Some warriors also like to take /E and bring point-blank nukes. The effectiveness of this strategy is questionable, and begs the obvious question: "why not just play an ele?". While not completely unsound, I don't suggest going this route unless you're sure you know what you're doing, or are just screwing around. What do you do? -------------------------- Here are basic builds I've run, for people that don't want to think, or want working examples: PvE Sword: Flurry Dragon Slash (E) Silverwing Slash Galrath Slash Sun and Moon Slash Distracting Blow "To the limit!" Res Sig attributes: 16/11/9 (swd/tac/str) PvE Axe: Tiger Stance Triple Chop (E) Cyclone Axe Executioner's Strike Dismember Disrupting Chop Distracting Blow Res Sig attributes: 16/13 (axe/str) PvE Hammer: Tiger Stance Enraged Smash (E) Counter Blow Rush "Watch Yourself!" "Fear Me!" "To The Limit!" Res Sig attributes: 16/7/12 (hmr/tac/str) *note on build usage: spam Enraged Smash, avoid using other adrenal skills (they're only there to power Enraged). I hope this helped someone. If not, oh well. I tried. Edit: Skill typo. Last edited by Rera; Oct 06, 2006 at 03:57 AM // 03:57.. |
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Oct 03, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08
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#2 |
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Perfectly Elocuted
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Great guide. Very clear, and very accurate.
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Oct 03, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32
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#3 |
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Grindin'
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MO
Profession: E/Mo
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I should point out that on a sword warrior, the elite slot doesn't have to be an attack skill. It can be any number of elite utilitities skills. (charge!, Healing Hands, empathic removal, auspicious parry, etc). That doesn't mean I wouldn't run dragon slash, just that you get more options on your elite when running sword.
Nothing quite beats sun and moon+dragon slash though. (at least in pve) |
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Oct 04, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17
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#4 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2006
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My argument is that there's no reason to run utility as a PvE warrior. If you want to play utility, an E/Mo or N/Mo is the class for you.
"Charge!" is a good skill. I like it a lot - for PvP and running. I can't think of a situation where I'd rather have this instead of Dragon Slash for PvE though. Healing Hands is a common favorite, and not without reason. However, I consider it a farming skill. A warrior absolutely should not slot this as her elite if she's in a full group (ie. with monks). Empathic Removal falls into the same category. Hex removal can be important in some places - but if it is, you should get your monks to take it. Wasting your elite on utility that your monks should be providing is not something I would recommend. Auspicious Parry I dislike because it's in the Tactics attribute line, and the rate of adrenalin gain is conditional on you being attacked. To be fair, the warrior should be getting attacked pretty much constantly in PvE, but it does make it less effective in a situation where you're trying to save a squishy. I suppose you could try it with 16 swd/13 tac, but I seriously doubt that this would result in more damage than a Dragon Slash build. Not having actually run the numbers though, I can't say for sure. |
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Oct 12, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14
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#5 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portugal
Guild: Cold Black Eyes
Profession: W/
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Nice guide, this should be on first page. *BUMP*
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Oct 12, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36
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#6 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Profession: Mo/
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Heal Sig should be on every warriors skillbar in PvE.
These are my axe builds: Triple Chop Executioners Strike Dismember - all dmg dealing warrior need a deep wound skill IAS Skill Heal Sig Watch Yourself Rez Sig Other - usually interupt Eviscerate Axe Rake Executioners Stikre IAS Skill Heal Sig Watch Yourself Rez Sig Other - usually interupt cant really go wrong with that. but heal sig is pretty much NEEDED. or some kinda self heal. |
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Oct 12, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34
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#7 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portugal
Guild: Cold Black Eyes
Profession: W/
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Tan: the builds Rera posted served just as quick examples of his guide. If you read the section on utility skills he does mention WY & Heal Sig except that they aren't needed if a good monk is present (Not allways happens with PUGs).
I think maybe a section about equipment would be good to have, about what mods to look for, shields, etc. Then this topic could be locked & stickified(replacing the Warrior basics ones which is just used for people to put whatever build they think of). At LEAST, it deserves a link in the Important Warrior Posts thread (altough i doubt much people bother to read it) Last edited by manager; Oct 12, 2006 at 06:37 PM // 18:37.. |
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Oct 12, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32
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#8 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2006
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@Tan: Self-heal isn't necessary. I say the following in the OP:
Quote:
---- My original plan wasn't actually to write a guide, but I realized that if I just posted a template with nothing else I wouldn't actually accomplish anything, because people would just post or PM questions and arguments. The post ended up being a lot longer than I planned, but it also isn't at the quality level of a real guide either. I usually don't discuss equipment, partly because people place far too much emphasis on it, and partly because equipment doesn't matter that much in the first place. I think a lot of it comes from people playing games like Diablo, where equipment determines everything, but the attention paid to equipment really is far disproportionate to its actual effect. When people ask me what I use, I usually say, "a weapon". If people think it would help though, I can add a short note on equipment choices, and perhaps polish the other sections and make a real guide out of it. As it is right now, it's really just a post that I link people to when they want a 'good build', so I don't end up typing the same thing over and over again. Also, with Nightfall coming out, I'm not sure how accurate or useful a guide would be at this point. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30
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#9 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Illinois, US
Guild: Heroes of Talia [HoT]
Profession: Mo/
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Pretty good overall in my opinion. It could always just be updated when Nightfall comes out.
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Oct 13, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33
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#10 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Oct 13, 2006, 03:07 AM // 03:07
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#11 | ||
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Perfectly Elocuted
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Oct 13, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01
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#12 |
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Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Wow. I'm gonna try this out tonight. Sounds really good. It dissapoints me that I have a shield that requires Strength though, so I can't afford to drop it below 9
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Oct 13, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09
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#13 | |
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Grindin'
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MO
Profession: E/Mo
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Quote:
Of course, with pve being all about dps, dragon slash is the way to go, though I absolutely loved auspicious parry before the nerf, since I could charge up my adrenaline almost immediately and assassins were very scary when factions was released, particulary in alliance battles, which I used to do a lot. I also like empathic, because both pug monks and hench monks are light on condition removal, and blind sucks big ones. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15
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#14 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2006
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The elite slot was more up for grabs before Factions came out. With Dragon Slash I honestly don't think that's true anymore.
If blind worries you, I suggest bringing one of: mend ailment, plague touch, or antidote signet. @Marty: none of the builds I posted use less than 9str, so you should be okay. On that note, the attributes for the hammer build are kind of annoying really. I wanted 12str for 9s duration on Tiger Stance, but that leaves tac at 7, which is one point shy of the 4a breakpoint for "To the Limit!". 4a is actually where you want to be, so you can run into a group of at least 4 enemies, hit TtL and immediately begin swinging around +40 enrages (since all of your adrenal skills cost 4a). As it is now, you run in, hit TtL, and still need one strike of adrenalin. If you prefer, you can drop str to 11, bump tac up to 8, and run with one less second of Tiger Stance. Or you can use a major rune (bad idea). Or you can switch to Flurry. Thankfully, this shouldn't be an issue once Nightfall comes out, since you'll be able to use Flail, but for now it's just inconvenient. |
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Oct 13, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28
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#15 | |
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Perfectly Elocuted
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Oct 14, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42
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#16 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Nov 2005
Profession: R/
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I'll admit to being a 'noob' warrior, since I've never seen it as the class I perform best it, but quite honestly I've liked Hundred Blades. It doesn't have the strongest damage output, but it seems to be decent enough and I've found it to be a good way to charge adrenal skills quickly when tanking multiple enemies as often seems to happen in PvE. The recharge time isn't great, but it's usually back by the time I'm done with most of my adrenal skills. If there is something about this skill I'm missing however, I am open to hear it.
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Oct 14, 2006, 04:49 AM // 04:49
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#17 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Guild: Pink Pearl
Profession: Mo/Me
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I find this guide is very well written. ALTHOUGH I do not like holding that many attack skills such as the
PvE Sword: Flurry Dragon Slash (E) Silverwing Slash Galrath Slash Sun and Moon Slash Distracting Blow "To the limit!" Res Sig attributes: 16/11/9 (swd/tac/str) PvE Axe: Tiger Stance Triple Chop (E) Cyclone Axe Executioner's Strike Dismember Disrupting Chop Distracting Blow Res Sig attributes: 16/13 (axe/str) but I gues thats fine if you like offensive in PvE. I like to tank, because thats what I'm in the group for. I find that the Bonetti, 20 second Dolyak Signet, Desparation Blow/Drunken Blow, ViM build more fun and a bit more useful in PvE. Although I know it is hard to PvE with a hammer (Due to lack of shield), The guide is perfectly reasonable. For a sword PvE build, I'd use HH (FLAME ME!!! I AM NOOB!). PvE Axe I use Evis. And I don't do PvE hammer |
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Oct 14, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58
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#18 | |
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Perfectly Elocuted
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Quote:
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Oct 14, 2006, 08:12 AM // 08:12
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#19 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2006
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@Sasuke: I don't talk about fun, I talk about effective. This is mostly because the former is a matter of opinion, and the latter a matter of facts. As I state at the very beginning, those out to play builds that are 'fun', 'original', etc. should not be looking at this thread. I'm not trying to be actively unfriendly, but I really don't want this to degenerate into a discussion of opinions and 'fun'.
@Archon: The main strength of Hundred Blades is how many hits it can potentially put out. I emphasize: *number* of hits, not *damage*. HB actually does very little damage against high-level enemies on its own because it lack damage bonus. However, it's good if something in your (team) build works well with a large number of discrete strikes. In terms of adrenalin, Dragon Slash is actually superior in most cases, due to the 8s recharge on HB. The primary advantage that HB has in this department is that you can use it immediately, whereas Dragon Slash has a high 10a cost, but that's why I take "To the Limit!" to mitigate this problem. The one thing going for HB that I have always greatly enjoyed is the extremely stylish animation. For this reason I always take it with me when helping friends in low level areas ^_^. |
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Oct 15, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23
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#20 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Nov 2005
Profession: R/
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Hmm, after hearing the arguments against it, I still find HB to fit my tastes the best. Dragon Slash is nice, but I prefer the ability to gain large amounts of adrenaline at the beggning of a battle (although I won't argue against DS as a good way to maintain adrenaline). "To the Limit" can be nice, but it still only gainst half of HB in terms of adrenaline and even less if the group you attack is larger than 5 (which admittedly shouldn't be too often in higher levels unless your last name is Jenkins). I also bring a vamp sword with me often, so it is relatively complementary with the build I use. Speaking of which, lately I have been using the following for PvE:
Hundred Blades {E} Sever Artery Gash Galrath's Slash Sprint "Watch Yourself" Plague Touch or Purge Conditions (depending on secondary) Rez I find aggro control and positioning to be important, so I generally make a build without a running skill. It also helps to get back up in the front lines if the group gets a bit hasty or if I'm a little behind from getting a drop that fell towards the back. I tend not to run an IAS with this build since I generally don't have a problem with adrenaline and don't see any of the options fitting in well (although that will likely change after I get Flail in Nightfall). As always, I have no problems with anyone expressing any dissenting opinions about mine, but I do reserve the right to agree to disagree. 
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