Curse

The Strategist · Sep 29, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

First, I would like to mention, this build is NOT, I repeat, NOT for the PvE type. If I were anybody here, this would be used for boss farming (if the boss is alone, or if you can run to him), or mainly PvP. With this build, I just made an assassin for PvE, got the skills I needed, and then whooped back to PvP. This build is for PvP casters, if a caster begins to drift away from the group, or if your in a big fight, go right for a caster.

Introduction
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Attribute Build:

Dagger Mastery - 12 + 3 (Rune of Superior Dagger Mastery) + 1 (Headpiece)
Critical Strikes - 12 + 3 (Rune of Superior Critical Strikes) + 1 (Headpiece)

Whatever is left should be sent into Deadly Arts.
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Skill Build:

There is only one, however, if your opponents begin challenging you many many times, and they begin to understand your build, and counter it, I would change this build.

1. Siphon Speed (Hexing spell)
2. Black Lotus Strike (Off-hand attack that can only be used on hexed units)
3. Horns of the Ox (Mainly for 1 v 1, this is why I recommended a caster who drifts off, to knock him down, and it is a dual attack that follows an off-hand attack)
4. Falling Spider (While knocked down, the target will take extra damage, and be poisoned)
5. Twisting Fangs (Falling Spider is an off-hand attack, if it works, then Twisting Fangs can be activated)
6. Frenzy (I only use this on rare occassions, for example, if your target is not dead yet, I finish it off with Frenzy, and this is a rare occassion)
7. Death's Charge (Used to go directly to the caster that is apart from the group)
8. Flourish (Warrior Skill, resets all of your skills for 5 Energy, for each skill reset, you gain a certain amount of Energy, very useful due to an Assassin's long cooldowns, and this helps you kill yet another target again)
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Weapon Suggestions: I use this for only PvP characters, and so in the beginning, when it allows a person to make a character, I use the PvP daggers, which allows extra damage on a hexed foe, Deadly Arts in Siphon Speed will keep it on their Hero even longer, and so for approximately 5 seconds and more, you will have 17% extra damage.
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Conclusion:

I didn't want to make this too long like a guide, but I do not post often, and I just registered with Guild Wars Guru, I also put this post up, because I haven't seen it before on the Guild Wars Guru website. Comments and suggestions can be posted, I would like to see, in my first post, what I did incorrectly, and what I have done correctly.

Apok Omen · Sep 29, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Well, the whole point of Guild Wars is to use teamwork to win. Not 1v1. It is therefore flawed, sorry. But this is a teamwork game, and teamwork prevails.

On topic, it isn't possible to have two headpieces on at the same time. Also, two Superior runes is harsh on health, especially in PvP. Only use +1 Minor rune on Critical Strikes, as that is all that needed for sole purpose of CS.

All in all, good build.

Lord Palidore · Sep 29, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

An build almost exactly like this has been posted before; currently the build I'm using as well. Been using it for a few months now.

Only thing different is instead of Death's Charge, I have Shadow Refuge, which in my opinion is much more important than DC. If you dont have even a small bit of healing in a build, espcially an assassin build, it only can end in suicide. Even so, with Siphon Speed, you dont need shadow stepping as much since that skill slows the target down.
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On your attributes, you cant have 2 headpeices, as you wrote down.

My attributes for this build are as follows, and works smoothly:

Dagger Mastery: 16 (12+1+3)
Deadly Arts: 4 (3+1)
Critical Strikes: 13 (12+1)
Shadow Arts: 1 (+1) :P

For your Frenzy usage, I actually use it quite often, depending on who your attacking, and whos attacking you. If you cast SS, and procede to attack, right before your about to strike with Black Lotus, click frenzy, and you can go through your skills with a much faster and effective spike.
Another option is to also replace Frenzy with Flurry. Less damage, yes, but because of the two large spike, there isn't too much of a noticeable difference.

In any case, this build definately is a successful one. I use it mainly in Fort Aspenwood, and it has been nothing but successful at taking down any build, including tanks after you complete the two chains.
Just today infact, I kept killing a wammo trying to kill our orange/purple commanders, several times in fact. He got frustrated at it, and tried 1v1'ing me twice, and both times he was killed in about 5 seconds, me being barely scratched. Always fun to take down those warriors who think they can take on an assassin. Because of the large spike, and the two knockdowns, they cant touch you.

So yeah, effective build, been posted before, but there's always people who havn't seen it, so it's ok to repost it.

OT, but I also live in Mesa, Az btw.
Small world

EDIT:
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To the above poster also, this definately isn't the best build for team arenas or random arenas, true, but it does work wonders in FA, ABs, and JQ alike, where the PvP is more quick, random, and fast paced.

The Strategist · Sep 29, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Alright, and yes I do agree with you that Guild Wars is for a whole teams game, but that's what I said in my build. "if a caster begins to drift away from the group, or if your in a big fight, go right for a caster"

Thank you for responding so quickly.

The first reply is to Apok Omen.

This is my second reply:
The 2 headpieces was a mistake. I meant to use one on boots. Apok Omen, you said that a minor rune should be used, I agree with that too, but I am using 2 Superior Runes, on the boots, and my headpiece, it works well, and you can use minor runes if you wish to. However, I aim for the people who drift off, it's that, or the monks I have been with are extremely awesome healers.

P.S. Lord Palidore, what's your street address? ^^

SAPhoenix · Sep 29, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

This build has been posted at gwonline (flourish sin) and, minus Frenzy and Death's Charge, is virtually identical to the one at gwonline. Not trying to say you copied it or anything, just saying that it has been posted already.

The original version of the build used Flurry instead of Frenzy, as the damage of the combo attacks wouldn't be reduced by Flurry, and you wouldn't be taking double damage if you were targeted. It also used Dark Escape, for retreating when under heavy fire. It lacked a self heal, but the build was mainly intended for GvG where a monk could always have your back while you go after targets. And with the half damage from Dark Escape, the monk would have an easier time healing you. The build was also not designed specifically to target casters, but to target pretty much ANYONE, utilising Strength of Honor on the sin to spike anything that moves in mere seconds.

Flurry would be a better option than Frenzy, as your objective with this build isn't to dps someone to death, but to spike as quickly as possible. You also won't take double damage while using Flurry.

Also, if you Death's Charge to someone, there's a chance you might over-extend with no means of safely backing off. With Frenzy activated and no way to cancel it, you could very easily find yourself in a very horrible situation, even with a good monk backing you (and if the opposition is formidable, your monk will be getting some major pressure too).

I would suggest that you include a stance cancel like Dark Escape for your Frenzy if you still intend to use it. This kind of build is one that requires the backing of a monk anyway to be effective, so a self heal would cut into your killing efficiency. Also, if you plan to use this in GvG, it might be an idea to slot in a res sig as well. Then you'd be better off with Flurry instead of Frenzy. You also would have to be very careful not to over-extend, as there would be no way to get away fast if you needed to.

These pure offense builds are very effective in the right team build, but I prefer to be able to look after myself, instead of always having to rely on a monk (It's not to say that a monk shouldn't ever have your back in GvG, its just that its nice to know that you can look after yourself without having the monk watch your back ALL the time). Which this kind of build ultimately requires.

fallot · Sep 29, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

I would suggest that you include a stance cancel like Dark Escape for your Frenzy if you still intend to use it.

I hope you mean Dash :/

Could you clarify some things for me The Strategist ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Strategist

Dagger Mastery - 12 + 3 (Rune of Superior Dagger Mastery) + 1 (Headpiece)
Critical Strikes - 12 + 3 (Rune of Superior Critical Strikes) + 1 (Headpiece)

Explain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Strategist

which allows extra damage on a hexed foe

Why not 15>50 ? Are you not going to be hitting targets that are not hexed ? Will you be below 50% health most of the time ?

SAPhoenix · Sep 29, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

I hope you mean Dash :/

Hmmm, lemme see. Half damage and a 25% speed boost with a duration that can be increased vs a 50% speed boost that lasts 3 seconds.

Ok, someone snares you while Dash is active, it doesn't reduce damage taken, gg. Someone snares you with Dark Escape still active, you're still taking half damage while your monk can comfortably remove the snare and heal you.

All the OP has to do is swap his runes around a bit and put some points into Shadow Arts. That's not too hard to accomplish.

Erm, so why Dash again?

Yanman.be · Sep 29, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Hmmm, lemme see. Half damage and a 25% speed boost with a duration that can be increased vs a 50% speed boost that lasts 3 seconds.

Ok, someone snares you while Dash is active, it doesn't reduce damage taken, gg. Someone snares you with Dark Escape still active, you're still taking half damage while your monk can comfortably remove the snare and heal you.

All the OP has to do is swap his runes around a bit and put some points into Shadow Arts. That's not too hard to accomplish.

Erm, so why Dash again?

Dash has less recharge, thus allowing you to use Frenzy more. IMO.

fallot · Sep 29, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Erm, so why Dash again?

I give up, you're a freaking moron.

SAPhoenix · Sep 29, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

The more you use Frenzy, the easier you make it for the opposition to kill you. If the opposing team doesn't notice that you're using Frenzy and capitalize on it, then that makes them poor, seriously, it does. The fact that Dash has a quicker recharge won't save you if you're snared anyway. And with enough points invested in Shadow Arts for Dark Escape, you only need to activate it once, even if you get snared, a monk removes the snare and you STILL have it activated without having to reactivate it again, as you would have to with Dash after the 8 second period. Even if the opposition were to snare you again with Dark Escape active, you would still be able to benefit from the reduced damage it offers, whereas with Dash, you won't.

You're better off with Flurry then anyway (if you choose to go the Dash route), as you can use Dash and Flurry instead of Dash and Frenzy. The combo (and the build in general) isn't about dps. It is more of a re-usable spike than it is constant pressure. So Flurry will serve a better purpose in such an instance as opposed to Frenzy.

Think about this, you activate Frenzy and you go after a target, say a monk, on the opposing team. A warrior runs up to you and starts attacking you while you are say halfway into the combo. Now you have to quickly cancel Frenzy to avoid taking double damage from the warrior, and you couldn't complete your combo on the monk due to pressure from the warrior. Then you also have to get away from the warrior, you've activated Dash but he's already taken a good chunk out of you in the process, someone on the opposing side snares you or the warrior uses a snare of his own and BAM, you're dead. This even before you could call for assistance from your monk.

Now, same scenario, with Flurry and Dark Escape. You land your combo, warrior comes after you, you don't have to cancel Flurry because you aren't taking double damage. Then you complete the combo, activate Dark Escape AFTER completing the combo and make a run for it. Someone on the opposing side snares you but, so what? You aren't taking full damage from the warrior's attacks anyway. Call for your monk, he removes the snare, Dark Escape is STILL active, so you can still run to safety.

Dash and Frenzy are awesome on a sin, I'll say that much. But in a build like this? Not really. You are constantly going to be somewhere in front as you won't be zipping between the backline and the frontline with this build. It's the only way you can be really effective from an offense perspective. And with that comes certain risks. Like no self heal, the heavy reliance on your monk to watch your back at ALL times, etc. Rather give the monk a break and use something that doesn't make it more difficult on him. If you use Frenzy and are constantly frontline (or midline), it becomes that much more difficult on your monk. But with Flurry, not at all. The same can be said of Dash and Dark Escape. With Dash you have a 50% speed boost. Great, but thats all you have. At least Dark Escape gives you damage reduction and while it's not near as fast as Dash, it is still far more beneficial in this case.

SAPhoenix · Sep 29, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Fallot, it seems you have a habit of insulting ppl or trying to rub them the wrong way. Guess what, you aren't the most intelligent person here. Neither am I, neither is anyone that posts here. Everyone posts here so that they can read others' opinions, share their builds with the GW community, receive criticism on those builds and improve on the areas they fall short in. I don't recall insulting you. Yet, you're quick to call me a moron for simply posting my opinion.

It's ppl like you that prevent guys that want to learn and improve their abilities from posting at these forums, because they are afraid of becoming flame bait. I offered my opinion to benefit the OP, you make a remark about what I mentioned, I back it up and you call me a moron for it. So think what you want to think, if insulting ppl makes you feel big, go for it.

I think the moderators should change these forums to "Elite Players only" and save everyone else the trouble of having to be lambasted by idiots that have nothing better to contribute than "you're a freaking moron". You didn't even offer the OP any advice on how to improve the build, why the heck are you even posting here?

The Strategist · Sep 29, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

I see my whole post has made some debate against many people, I don't want anyone making fun of eachother. I did not read all of your posts, I merely quicky skimmed through it.

First, I would like to mention fallot,

Dagger Mastery - 12 + 3 (Rune of Superior Dagger Mastery) + 1 (Headpiece)
Critical Strikes - 12 + 3 (Rune of Superior Critical Strikes) + 1 (Headpiece)

means, Dagger Mastery at 12, + 3 from Rune of Superior Dagger Mastery, + 1 from the headpieces we are given. In my first post of this strategy, I posted it at late night, and was very sleepy, and I meant the Boot armor. Someone suggested I use a Minor Rune rather than Superior Rune.

Secondly, is Flurry not a Ranger spell? This build is made for A/W, and throughout the Assassin and Warrior skills, I have not seen a Flurry spell.

I don't want anyone to fight on these posts, and I don't want my first thread closed. :/ Lastly, should I use Dash, or Dark Escape? I would like your opinions on it, but please don't fight about it.

Hyunsai · Sep 29, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Flurry is a no-attribute Warrior skill...

You can't have it in PVE with Faction alone I think...

See the skill trainer in Lion Arch, in Prophecy campaign...

fallot · Sep 29, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Dash if you ever intend to use Frenzy. I've used Rush with Frenzy before Dash had such a great recharge. Dark Escape if you intend to use Frenzy every 30 seconds...

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Strategist

means, Dagger Mastery at 12, + 3 from Rune of Superior Dagger Mastery, + 1 from the headpieces we are given. In my first post of this strategy, I posted it at late night, and was very sleepy, and I meant the Boot armor. Someone suggested I use a Minor Rune rather than Superior Rune.

What I could not understand was how you were wearing two headpieces simultaneously.

When planning an attribute spread for an Assassin in PvP, its wise to aim for the 13 crit breakpoint. The kind of spread I would recommend for your original build is:

Dagger Mastery: 11+2+1
Critical Strikes: 11+2
Deadly Arts: 8+1

This is a reasonable compromise, allowing you to achieve decent HP, preserving the 13 crit effect and sacrificing only a little damage from DM. It's unnecessary to put more into crits even though you have 2 linked skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

You didn't even offer the OP any advice on how to improve the build, why the heck are you even posting here?

Yarr, I'm a pirate.

The Strategist · Sep 30, 2006, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Alright, that helped alot, many thanks. Thank you for showing me Flurry is a no-attribute skill, didn't see that there. :/

SAPhoenix · Sep 30, 2006, 12:43 PM // 12:43

All I'll say is, if someone tries to spike you while you have Frenzy activated, you'll probably die before you activate Dash. And being able to repeat a combo with Frenzy and Dash every few seconds as opposed to every 30 seconds with Dark Escape won't really mean a crap if you're dead. Plus, how exactly do you kill a target if you're constantly having to cancel Frenzy with Dash and back off? If the opposition considers you to be a threat, you'll be out of the picture very quickly.

Flurry is used in the original version of this build because Frenzy will get you killed, period. If it doesn't, the opposing team is a poor team. And in a GvG environment, I'd like to see how long a Frenzy sin lasts against a well organised team.

I'm just offering advice from a survivability standpoint Strategist, so that you don't end up dead frequently while using Frenzy for this build. I don't doubt your ability as a sin player, but for a build like this, Frenzy can only help you so much.

fallot · Sep 30, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

All I'll say is, if someone tries to spike you while you have Frenzy activated, you'll probably die before you activate Dash.

Having used Frenzy on Assassins quite extensively, I'll say you won't. Especially in 4v4, which is obviously what this build is intended for even though the OP only says "PvP". I mean, it's not terribly hard to see a Lightning Orb about to be hurled at you or a warrior closing in to unload on your ass. A bit of positional awareness, a cancel stance always ready and you can use Frenzy almost unmolested. It's not like you're going to use it predictably either.

It's not hard to find a team running Frenzy on an Assassin in TA. Intelligent use of the skill can make it superior to Flurry. You're not playing in a vacuum where people are just ready to blow you to oblivion as soon as you press the button.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Plus, how exactly do you kill a target if you're constantly having to cancel Frenzy with Dash and back off?

All Frenzy is for is damage compression in a combo, it'll be up for seconds. You'll always cancel Frenzy. Which means you need a cancel that's pretty much always available. Dark Escape is a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing awesome skill, but not a good enough stance cancel due to its recharge.

Edit: I'm not saying he should use Frenzy though, just how to use it if he does decide to put it on his bar. And of course, I'm a pirate.

Bloodied Blade · Oct 01, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

I could never run Frenzy on an assassin unless it was buffed to instantly give your country halls...and only worked in america. I just love my Plague Touch too much.

Skuld · Oct 01, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Signet of malice? Then you can be A/anything

Bloodied Blade · Oct 01, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

I've run signet of malice from time to time. I just like having Plague Touch (I only have 1 utility spot anyway in pvp if I'm running AoD combo).