Curse

Bellucci · Sep 19, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

i was gone for 2 weeks from the game, come back, and behold; my fave class in the game has been nerfed to hell! To think, i was going to delete all my chars and just play my rit all through the GW campaigns... no... not anymore...

now what the heck do we do? they almos tripled the cost of shelter, and made it take 3 times more damage to boot!! i mean jesus... its bad enough we wont be getting any new skills, so ''adapting'' will be a pain and a half... and why play restore? is that not what monks are for? im gonna hang around for a bit, maybe anet will see they took this nerf too far and find a middle ground before how the rit lord used to be and how it is now...

there have been many nerfs in this game, but those classes were able to recover... as ritualists, we now will need to maybe even change are attributes all together just to play competetively... like go from spawn/communing to all out restore... were not even utilizing the same atts!!

GARBAGE! im waiting for the next skill balance update to occur before i decide to retire... that next update will likely occur after nightfall's realse... i wont be buying nightfall of course till the next skill update... but when it comes a long and the update does nothing to ammend the situation, ill be giving away all my inventory and deleting my chars

... heres hoping

Former Ruling · Sep 19, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

1) You WILL be getting new skills in Nightfall: CONFIRMED by Anet...Stop Moaning.

2) They BUFFED THE HECK OUTTA RITS in the last update...Are you blind...

BTW, Rit Lord isnt dead, They are just adapting to the changes (Shelter being the only spirit in common Spammer use that was hit very hard). Shelter got hit harder IMO because of its uses on certain maps in GvG. Namely the Catapult-having ones.

Bellucci · Sep 19, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

who cares about spamming? it now dies 3 times as fast!!! they almost trippled its cost and they trippled the damage it takes, and thats assuming you have 16 spawn.... otherwise its more than trippled

Ecksor · Sep 19, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

dude stfu not all Rt's are communing or resto. channeling got buffed like crazy, so please, just quit complainin

Former Ruling · Sep 19, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Spammers never cared in the first place how fast something dies...Displacement is on every spammers bar and it has ALWAYS died almost as fast as you cast it.

Shelter really is the one and only spirit that dmgs itself that consistently survived its recharge in a spammer build. Union, though the dmg is small, activates alot thus falls pretty fast. Displacement like I said drops as soon as it is cast vs most builds. Shelter had alot of survivability and often times survived its recharge in these builds unless alot of big spikes happened.

And again...Shelter probably has hit so hard because it circumvented a few of the guild hall's features, namely the Catapult ones. Shelter survived so well you could sit it up and basically forget about the catapult and run out of your base when the opponent is firing it. This really made catapults no issue for builds with rit lords...

Bellucci · Sep 19, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

yea former... you obviously arent getting me... shelter dies in seconds, as a spammer, you could deal with shelter being 25 energy, simply because chances are it never died in the first place.... it took very little damage, even in the ring of fire missions.... now its bar drops faster than unions... what im saying is that if it was 25 energy, you atleast didnt have to worry about spamming shelter... because it would still take only 15 damage... the fact that it takes tripple damage, or more, means that now you DO have to spam it... but now that you HAVE TO, its 25 energy... meh

unmatchedfury · Sep 19, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13

i feal your pain mate. I no longer use shelter in PvE too much trobule to cast for 8 procs in a 8 person party.. one proc per person WHEeeeeee....

anyways im experimenting with offesive spirits they work well. BUt as for restoration its like a monk without any enchants.. more reflex based and alot harder. oh well..

Bellucci · Sep 19, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

yea the restore rit just isnt as effective... a +3 reccup works well while spamming on spot heals, which is what any monk should do.... a good monk doesnt use enchant heals... but there is an enormous drawback... the rit doesnt have a HEAL PARTY... and even if you use one as a restore rit, there is no divine favor boost... but its not just that.... even being an exception healer will never compare to rit lord, that for some reason was just too fun to play.... especially in FoW and UW.....

Morayna · Sep 19, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Bellucci, I couldn't agree more with you on this. I love my rit, and it is my favorite character. 98% of the time it's the char I choose to play. Rit Lord build of course. And I'm sorry to say that, now, I can't play that. Why? Not only is shelter a 25 pt cost skill now (which, if that being the only "change", it's adaptable, plus the lowering of the recharge time, etc) but almost every skill that is the backbone of the defensive build was shot to pieces. It's not the individual skills of the different attributes that should be debated, but the builds used by rits. Mainly the highly favored defensive (aka protective) rit lord build.

The problem rests mostly in Boon of Creation (and Ritual Lord to a certain extent). How can anet expect us to use high cost skills (recupe is now 25 also) without sufficient energy backup OR good recharge times, since they had to bump the rit lord skill down too? Seriously... Rits are designed specifically with spirits in mind (being the only class that can utilize the spawning attribute), and I think it's a load of crap that the spirits and skills related to such were so badly altered that it looks like the only efficient build for rits is to play back up healers or channelers. I can't even get accepted into a group for higher level missions now if I'm not set as a healer. I mean, was Anet even thinking when they made this change or so called "balance"?

I'm assuming the change was made not from a pve standpoint but pvp (this being ab, gvg, etc). Rit lords in pvp can be Very good, and I had to listen to more than one person on the other side complain about it. Don't freaking complain. Kill the rit lord, don't whine about their skills so anet starts considering the idea that "there is a problem". It's not that hard. Rits aren't tanks and can take damage. And if you're a rit lord, the skill bar allows for Maybe 1 self heal If that. Either kill them, nuke their spirits, or energy denial/interrupts... And think- This being directed specifically at Anet (since it said on their contact page to "comment and post suggestions on such forums since they are read daily"): Don't freaking nerf the hell out of something without considering how it will effect everything else (such as the number of people wanting to play a specific build, or that pvp and pve are not the same things so what works for one won't for the other, vice-versa). You've killed a good build. Way to go. You should all be very proud of yourselves. Now you have a lot of really ticked off/upset rit users on your hands.

I think if you take the overall nerf into consideration, it really was nothing but a knockdown of the defensive Rit Lord build because of it's "overpowering" effects. Seeing as how the restoration skills were bumped up, I get the impression they want us to lean more towards healing?

And so what if they buffed it last time? It was still very playable. Now it's barely manageable. I'll give anything a shot. I tried this, even tried tweaking the build to compensate. No good.

Anyone have any useful suggestions on what I'm supposed to do with my rit now?

dgb · Sep 19, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morayna

I'm assuming the change was made not from a pve standpoint but pvp (this being ab, gvg, etc). Rit lords in pvp can be Very good, and I had to listen to more than one person on the other side complain about it. Don't freaking complain. Kill the rit lord, don't whine about their skills so anet starts considering the idea that "there is a problem". It's not that hard. Rits aren't tanks and can take damage. And if you're a rit lord, the skill bar allows for Maybe 1 self heal If that. Either kill them, nuke their spirits, or energy denial/interrupts... And think- This being directed specifically at Anet (since it said on their contact page to "comment and post suggestions on such forums since they are read daily"): Don't freaking nerf the hell out of something without considering how it will effect everything else (such as the number of people wanting to play a specific build, or that pvp and pve are not the same things so what works for one won't for the other, vice-versa). You've killed a good build. Way to go. You should all be very proud of yourselves. Now you have a lot of really ticked off/upset rit users on your hands.

Have you ever actually played a GVG at any level where the teams are organised? Kill the rit lord? It's hard enough to get kills as it is against a good team, let alone on a character that is four agro bubbles behind the flagstand. Interupt it? Right, let's send a character through their frontline, midline and backline and they still aren't at the rit. Any character extending that far in is spike bait. The ritualist could spam their spirits from a position of near invulnerability simply because the range of the spirits meant that you had to overextend by a rediculous ammount in order to kill it or them.

Abyss1 · Sep 19, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Ok well I personally don't see the problem....

I haven't changed my bar pre-update <-> post-update and yes shelter takes more to cast and yes it dies faster but in PvE it is still as effective and well I do have to cast in a different order now but I still get just as many off in just about the same amount of time. the thing is now yes you rely on you spirits taking the damage longer so now I actually have to wait a sec or two longer for energy to come available.

A good solution I found that works for me is taking 1 or 2 spirits that give me more energy back through boon then the actual cats costs.

I still can prevent my team from dying throughout the crystal desert and beyond so I guess no harm is done.

ok well now a rit lord actually has to use his brain to get it all working right where before it was pretty much a brainless build, spam and spam often.

In short addapt , nothing is going to really change to it was so we have to adapt.

Amok Affinity · Sep 19, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

[PVE] a resto. rit can be used very very effectively in conjunction with some other type of [pseudo] healer, be it a monk or rit. the point being, no its not a monk, big sh**, but it can complement a monk just as well as another [/PVE]

its not all spiritspam and VwK farming but [un]fortunately ANet cant make you see that, you have to take a look for yourself instead of copying generic builds from wikis etc. -_-

memnock deathwalker · Sep 19, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

The main reason I see for the nerf in any build is due to the PVP folks whining when they get handed a plate full of their butts . Minion master came back from it's hard hitting nerf and so will ritualist.
Think outside the box . See what from the old build you use to run is still good and change the things that are not. simple!

I have yet to see ANET change something back once it has been nerfed and I doubt they ever will. ( I may be wrong but I do not think so)

And for the record I can still run my spirit spammer build with out energy issues. But I never take Shelter or Union.

unmatchedfury · Sep 19, 2006, 12:50 PM // 12:50

well prot spirit really is useless in PvE now. It works okay, its not totally useless but its not as effective as a monk at proting now. So really we're just what you get if there isn't a monk available for your throw togeher PUG.

nerfing rit lord took away their use in PvP, now they're just sub par at everthing. I'm not saying they can't heal, or that they can't dmg . ITs jsut taht now they're the worst at dmg,a sub par monk, and a 50% of the time protection.

When the paragon hits the PvP meta game there will be no use whatsoever for rits. the paragon can do the party buff thing just as well as the rit can now. Or so i hear i guess that might be getting ahead of myself. We don't know for sure. All i know is that shelter took a HUGE nerf. The problem half the time is the lack of use for the rits main attribute.

but as far as the 1337 PvP communty is concerned there is no use for rits, and you won't see them used, and don't see them used i might add, in any high level GvG.

One good thing about this nerf is the buff to offensive spirits. I think an offensive spirit spammer could really help a team control a particular area in GvG. unfortuanlty as in any competitive game Cookie cutting is the maxium and inovation is discouraged.

LadyNilene · Sep 19, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

yeah, i agree with the update being booboo...

i totally had to revamp my ritualist to keep it SOMEWHAT useful to what it use to be. Shelter drops just as fast as Displacement now, and takes so much energy to cast...i had to rework my Rit with some mesmer channeling skills to help relieve some of the burden the energy managment problem was causing...after that, i tried to work in signet of creation to help lengthen the life of the spirits(since displacement and shelter drop like flies, so a 30 second extension isnt that bad, considering the health regain keep them alive that long to begin with), but that killed off minons from mm, which caused problems, so...had to take that out...either way...not happy with the update, ive never done channeling magic, so i really dont care how good it is now or whatever...nobody ever wants a channeling rit anyways, its always rit lord or resto...so bleh.

Xeupo · Sep 19, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

Have you ever actually played a GVG at any level where the teams are organised? Kill the rit lord? It's hard enough to get kills as it is against a good team, let alone on a character that is four agro bubbles behind the flagstand. Interupt it? Right, let's send a character through their frontline, midline and backline and they still aren't at the rit. Any character extending that far in is spike bait. The ritualist could spam their spirits from a position of near invulnerability simply because the range of the spirits meant that you had to overextend by a rediculous ammount in order to kill it or them.

It sounds to me that the problem is not with the skill set but with the players. Perhaps instead of nerfing the Rit Lord or variations of it (I did not run the cookie cutter except for the core spirits) Anet should have increased the sin's range for their teleport skills. A sin with much longer teleport could rip a ritual lord up.

I am a PvE player primarily. I have long felt that anet should seperate skill effects for pve and pvp environments. Some of the nerfs that are pvp oriented completed messes up pve builds that are balanced. Likewise the other way around.

Overall, I usually look fondly upon nerfs, and I have had many characters be effected by nerfs.Nerfs are good because they require people to rethink their builds; they keep the game fresh. However, I frown upon this ritualist nerf because of it being pvp centric.

A ritual lord of the standard build can have a hard time keeping spirits up in the elite missions and other pve maps because of the large amount of damage involved. Even a small downtime can render most of the party slain.

While a ritual lord in pvp can seem overpowered, it is possible to counter. People need to learn how to play characters better in order to do so instead of whining.

I hope Anet would consider seperating pvp and pve skill effects so these misbalances between pve and pvp will not continue to occur. This would also make the difference between the two more interesting. In my pvp escapades, I find most players to play similar to pve ai.

Glasswalker · Sep 19, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeupo

I hope Anet would consider seperating pvp and pve skill effects so these misbalances between pve and pvp will not continue to occur. This would also make the difference between the two more interesting. In my pvp escapades, I find most players to play similar to pve ai.

Worst. Idea. Ever. Does that mean that when you get to a competitive mission in Cantha that the effects of your skills ought to change? How about the Alliance battles? I would hate to get used to a set of skills then pop into the Jade Quarry and find that none of them worked right.

Come on guys, it was just one skill. Did you see the list of all the Rit skills that were improved? Holy Moses.

And yes, for you Spirit Spammers out there, fear not! Signet of Creation will drastically extend the life of your beloved Shelter. Regarding Minion Masters, you now have 2 choices: 1) Don't team with them (it can be done), 2) Let them take advantage of this effect. Start spreading the Death Nova and start the suicide rush! Of course, you only use it in times of intense pressure, but that's when the rush will do the most good too.

Xeupo · Sep 19, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glasswalker

Worst. Idea. Ever. Does that mean that when you get to a competitive mission in Cantha that the effects of your skills ought to change? How about the Alliance battles? I would hate to get used to a set of skills then pop into the Jade Quarry and find that none of them worked right.

Come on guys, it was just one skill. Did you see the list of all the Rit skills that were improved? Holy Moses.

And yes, for you Spirit Spammers out there, fear not! Signet of Creation will drastically extend the life of your beloved Shelter. Regarding Minion Masters, you now have 2 choices: 1) Don't team with them (it can be done), 2) Let them take advantage of this effect. Start spreading the Death Nova and start the suicide rush! Of course, you only use it in times of intense pressure, but that's when the rush will do the most good too.

I have played a few games where such skills changed. It made the games more interesting in my view because such required me to think about things differently for each area. I tend to change my builds for each area anyway.

I did not play ritual lord but rarely. I do appreciate the increases on the other skills, but I dislike how ritualists are looked down upon in pve. This is especially so since we cannot protect the party much more than a monk can.
We are considered sub par healers and sub par damage dealers. Most pve groups do not allow a ritualist to take advantage of the offensive spirits because of rushing.

I do have to add, however, that a ritualist is much better than a monk when dealing with large party degen in pve areas. For my restoration builds the increase of energy on recuperation is not a problem.

Signet of Creation is not really that much of a help in my experience. I only ritual lord in extremely high damage areas (read Urgoz Warren and other elite areas) where the signet is not as valuable as another spirit or skill. In my tests after the skill change the signet has as much effect on shelter as it does on displacement which is just about 1 or 2 more seconds of life. The mass minion bombing is very effective however.

As a ritualist, I would like to see one change. Draw Spirit changed into Draw Spirits with a greater pull range to help with the rushing mentality of pve.

Jetdoc · Sep 19, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeupo

It sounds to me that the problem is not with the skill set but with the players. Perhaps instead of nerfing the Rit Lord or variations of it (I did not run the cookie cutter except for the core spirits).

A ritual lord of the standard build can have a hard time keeping spirits up in the elite missions and other pve maps because of the large amount of damage involved. Even a small downtime can render most of the party slain.

To the OP and Xeupo above...

I think this is the main problem. People loved the Ritual Lord build because it was simply a cookie-cutter build. Carry six base skills, and have a couple of flex skills you can play with.

A-Net, for the most part, tries to break the mold of cookie cutter builds in order to have players with the 100 other skills that are available. That's why Shelter took a direct hit - it was the keystone to the Ritual Lord cookie cutter build.

Simply put, us ritualists need to diversify and innovate. That is the core concept of the Ritualist class anyways - good at many things, not great at any individual thing. So far, I am loving the changes, and have taken a hard look at skills I never even considered before. I find that if you experiment, you'll actually learn how to use the skills better than simply taking someone else's build and mashing buttons.

Formula97 · Sep 19, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

What I don't understand is why they also nerfed Boon of Creation. Yeah, it is used in the Rit Lord builds, but they nerfed Ritual Lord, so what was the point? The only other semi-popular build I know of that uses Boon of Creation is the Rt/N minion bomber, which is never used in PVP because it is just not practical.

In PVE, the Rt/N mm is not overpowered at all. Basically the only advantage it has over a Necro primary mm is Explosive Growth for some AOE damage. Seeing as how Boon was the only real useable energy management skill for a Rit, I have to completely disagree with the nerf. My Rit is now pretty much useless to me, as I found spirits and restoration extremely boring. When you are running a Rt/N with Boon of Creation, energy was still an issue before the nerf if you were putting nova on all of your minions as they were created(hard to do, but with practice it is possible) and keeping Boon of Creation and Explosive Growth up. Since your minions are constantly dieing and you don't get any bonus from soul reaping, the energy gained from making new minions was the only way to keep going during heavy fighting.

They may have buffed a lot of other skills, but if they buff skill lines that no one wants to use anyway, who cares. I personally, along with some other members of my guild, are really getting tired of all the skill nerfs. If people in PVP are too dumb, lazy, or what ever to come up with better builds, don't ruin things for everyone esle. Why should the whiners and complainers always get what they want? I mean really, they might as well just nerf everything, so the people who play crap builds all the time won't have anything to complain about when they get their rear ends handed to them. Yeah, some builds are pretty annoying to go up against and get owned by all the time in PVP, but you go back, look at your skills, and make adjustments for next time, as there is a counter to just about everything in this game.
If I see a bunch of people using the same build and being sucessful, guess what. I'm going to go look to see what I can do to counter it, not go complain to Anet that its too powerfull or can't be beat. With all of the nerfs, people don't have to think about how to counter something, Anet is doing it for them.