Curse

Mazrim_Walker · Oct 02, 2006, 10:17 AM // 10:17

famin will prolly take out a large mob of smites slightly faster than an SS however the time difference is neglictible. ATB + 2 times SS + RH kills the smites in a few seconds SS however will kill the aatxes much faster so i believe that SS would work faster in the long run

Star Alfur · Oct 02, 2006, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Famine +AV/SV triggers each time energy is reduced to zero. Once energy hits zero, it will trigger each time energy would have reached 1e. If the energy drain from SV/AV hits a target with 0e, nothing happens. This is clear, because if that were the case, this thread would have no reason for existing, the DPS would be roughly 1000DPS for a group of 5 smites. Clearly this isn't the case, and you can prove it in Elona's Reach.

Damage per second from Famine is determined purely by the rate of energy regen.

Aataxes regenerate energy at a rate of 0.66e/s. Each famine trigger only hits one Aataxe, that's a blazing 24.42 DPS per target.

Smites regenerate energy the same as any other caster class, for 49.21 DPS per smite. It's good DPS, but it's at roughly half of what a SS nec can achive by simply casting SS twice. Against a mob of 5 smites, two casts of a 42 damage SS will deal 558.6 total DPS, Famine hits 246 DPS. The damage would not scale in a way that favors Famine as the mobs get bigger. I was also ignoring RS (Which would clearly swing the balance further in the favor of SS), simply because I don't feel like calculating attack speeds. Aataxes attack slower than Smites, but not twice as slow, howerver, they *do* regenerate energy twice as slow.

I could perhaps be wrong in assuming that monster caster classes regenerate energy at the same rate as player caster calsses, but I don't think I am. And at anyrate, it would require stupid amounts of energy regen to make Famine compairable with SS.

Note the bolded areas above - it spells it out.

Damage is not dealt each time the tank is hit while enchanted with SV/AV. Damage is dealt when the enemy creature's energy hits 0. That is, the creature's energy must have regen'd up to at least 1 before taking damage from Famine again.

That said, I've found SS to be faster than Famine SV/AV.

Etrik · Oct 02, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

In conclusion, wouldn't it be better to have a SS, a Famine, and a monk tank?

Avarre · Oct 02, 2006, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

sing the average time it takes to clear the same amount of enemies.

About the Dryder comment, they're actually quite easy. You just tank them along with the rest of the chamber and abuse the melee fighters to drain them along.

Servants of Grenth quest?

Famine, in my opinion is somewhat clumsier - if things don't go down in the first aggro, they're much more difficult to kill. Not to mention RH + SS is already very fast, and the security that a decent SS can kill groups of graspings/coldfires if the tank goes down..

Kelson · Oct 02, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etrik

In conclusion, wouldn't it be better to have a SS, a Famine, and a monk tank?

In conclusion....it would be best to have a Ritualist Sprit Bond Tank with VwK, a Holy Wrath smite monk, an SS necro & a Famine Ranger. Well......as long as you're not going for the drops.

As far as Famine vs. SS, I've found that Famine does indeed seem to be faster with particularly large groups, but SS is much more versatile, therefore I prefer it.
For example, if I somehow get trapped while trying to lead the Smites back into the Coldfires, I am screwed with Famine - they will not die unless I can pull another group to them. With SS, this is not an issue; it forces no requirements as to group size or composition. Since the damage in any case is comparable, SS gets the nod due to its versatility.

XvArchonvX · Oct 02, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I've fooled around and ran with a SS and Famine ranger guildmate at the same time and against the Smites, Famine would often kill the smites before the SS had time to cast Arcane Echo and SS.

Famine rangers can still kill Coldfires without having the tank pull Smites next to em, they just have to bring other skills like Apply Poison to take them out. However even in that case, a SS will usually take out the Coldfires faster.

manager · Oct 02, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by AscalonWarrior

That's right. You can't cast 12 SS's, can you?
So that is 3x41

SS affects the mob who has the spirit and ALL adjacent foes.

So, that's 3x41x12 if they are grouped together, which they will be.

carnivore · Oct 02, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelson

In conclusion....it would be best to have a Ritualist Sprit Bond Tank with VwK, a Holy Wrath smite monk, an SS necro & a Famine Ranger. Well......as long as you're not going for the drops.

heh, might as well add in Spoil Victor spam(w/ a 55tank), Barage, and 2 extra Vengeful Weapon spamers.

Amity and Truth · Oct 02, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Servants of Grenth quest?

Hehe, that is basically why i said above that Famine is a better choice Elitewise, but your average Curses Necro will be much more efficient otherwise. Servants of Grenth will indeed give the Famine Ranger a severe Headache but the normal 3 Dryder group near the statues won't.

Another question would be, can Famine power through the Behemoths? I don't think so and this excludes one from the ecto pregnant areas behind the twin serpent mountain (damn, how often have i wished for a way to just skip that silly boring mountain - even when on a 8 person team :P).

And thus once again. If you're only comparing Famine with SS, Famine wins in large groups but is crippled in many other situations making it not a worthwhile option to take in a duo farmteam that wants to do more than just Aatxes and a few Smites.

XvArchonvX · Oct 02, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Call me crazy, but who cares about the quests? If you are farming UW for profit, they why do anything beyond Aatxes and Smites when everything else has a drastically lower profitability? Even with the 1k cost of admission, multiple smite runs will earn more than a few runs that require clearing out of many enemies that don't even drop ectos such as Graspings, Coldfires and such.

cerb · Oct 02, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Call me crazy, but who cares about the quests? If you are farming UW for profit, they why do anything beyond Aatxes and Smites when everything else has a drastically lower profitability? Even with the 1k cost of admission, multiple smite runs will earn more than a few runs that require clearing out of many enemies that don't even drop ectos such as Graspings, Coldfires and such.

Are you kidding me? Have you ever done the quests? Sometimes you can do a smite run and get nothing, do Ice King + Unwanted Guests and get 4 ectos. It has very very good drops and is not over farmed (unlike smites)

Amity and Truth · Oct 02, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Well, i'm doing the quests for another reason. The reaper quests each spawn a key-less chest. So on top of the ecto the Dryders during the Servants of Grenth Quest may drop, you get a shot at a crystalline sword out of one of those chests. I got mine from one (sadly no inherent mod though but max damage XD)

Mera Regila · Oct 02, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Alfur

Note the bolded areas above - it spells it out.

Damage is not dealt each time the tank is hit while enchanted with SV/AV. Damage is dealt when the enemy creature's energy hits 0. That is, the creature's energy must have regen'd up to at least 1 before taking damage from Famine again.

That said, I've found SS to be faster than Famine SV/AV.

WTF is with everyone believing that completely untrue myth? It doesn't HAVE to hit 1 and then go to 0, even if it's 0 then goes back to 0 again it still does AOE damage. If you don't believe me then try the Shiro'Ken farming build, it does absolutely massive dmg and they cast the famine themselves! I KNOW that they haven't hit 1 energy because they lose energy every fraction of a second.

Famine+SB Monk+Large Mobs=WAY more damage than SS
SS+55/SB Monk+Small Mobs=More damage than Famine in this case, but this is only if you like taking it slowly.
SB is way way way better than 55, for UW especially because everything will almost definately hit over than 60 per hit, except those Grasping Darknesses which are pathetic. Say there were 2 rooms with 1,000 Smite Crawlers in one room (i know this would never happen but bear with me), and there were the 55 in one room with a famine ranger, and SB in one room with famine ranger also. 55 Would be able to tank 24 at most without dying, wheras SB could tank all 1,000 and they'd be mauled in less than thirty seconds at the most. I rest my case.

Amity and Truth · Oct 02, 2006, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Famine and Mind Wrack actually DO trigger on 0.x energy. There is energy inbetween 0 and 1. If you want to see it with your own eyes go outside of Beetletun and hit the mergoyles. Make sure to lower your energy regeneration to one by bringing some useless maintained enchantments.

They will cast Spirit Shackles on you and sooner or later Mind Wrack.
Now have a close look at your energy bar. Not once will it hit 1 energy again as you're constantly draining yourself through Spirit Shackles. But Mind Wrack still damages you everytime it is cast and you hit the enemy. Go and try it if you don't believe it.

daky · Oct 03, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

famine kills smites faster but slower at start. SS is a pretty steady pace. Also i find famine is easier for the monks. making it my personal choice for when i pug. if it makes the monks job easier less chance of the pug dieing on me.

Avarre · Oct 03, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelson

In conclusion....it would be best to have a Ritualist Sprit Bond Tank with VwK, a Holy Wrath smite monk, an SS necro & a Famine Ranger. Well......as long as you're not going for the drops.

Eh, Cerb and I ran a Spirit Bond IW Scythe mesmer with SV and a Mo/R smite monk with famine

Trying to fit as many builds as possible...

mad 55 monk · Oct 03, 2006, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Famine fans can you plz post a video of a smite run done under 16 mins ?
Cause SBmonk + SS duo are able to finish it in/under 15 mins every time.

p.s. sry for my english.

nghwee · Oct 03, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

I second that.

IMO only two things matter in this discussion. First is speed of completing a smite run, for ecto farmers. Second is versatility of dealing with different mobs/aggro.

Talking abt how fast famine kills a big mob ignores the time necessary to collect a nice big aggro, avoid colds, etc.

If talking abt smite run - true litmus test is the time taken to complete a run, not how fast u take down a nicely arranged mob. Who knows how long it took to arrange it.

If talking abt versatility........ don't think I have anything to add.

XvArchonvX · Oct 03, 2006, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by nghwee

Talking abt how fast famine kills a big mob ignores the time necessary to collect a nice big aggro, avoid colds, etc.

Are you insinuating that a run will go faster if you collect single small groups and take out coldfires? Idk about you, but I see it as being a lot faster to take a quick stroll and aggro 4-5 mobs of smites and take them out once rather than having to wait on the casting times for each mob waiting for SV to drain before casting SS. Whether you run SS or 55, how is it faster to stop and recast everything 4-5 times instead of just once at the simple expense of walking a slightly larger distance?

If your assumption is that a Famine build must skip the coldfires, I must disagree. It is still easy to take out Coldfires by aggroing smites next to them. In fact, when you do it this way, you take out two groups at once and thus reduce the time taken.

Another factor I have noticed many people miss is that Famine rangers also have other skills at their disposal beyond Famine and SV/AV. Apply Poison speeds up deaths of Aatxes and Coldfires and Savage Shot (or Power Return, or whatever interupt) is a far superior defense against Nightmares than simply wanding them (not to mention the inceased damage a ranger can do with a bow compared to a wand).

Tainek · Oct 03, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

To take out coldfires just bring Apply poison and Spirit shackles, gg