Curse

WasAGuest · Nov 01, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Heroes are a wonderful thing. I have been able to play and enjoy what I've seen without 1) some jerk running off to unlock sections of a map, aggroing the entire area then mapping out 2) standing in town trying to make/find a group while reading trade spam of arrogant fools selling "purty POS for 100k + x ecto NO NOOB OFFERS" 3) dealing with PUGs that have convulsive fingers and ping the map in the wrong direction 100 times a second 4) Leeroy Jenkins! (nuff said) 5) Elite skill cappers that join to cap then map out without a word 6) no a-hole afkers that join a mission, go afk and come back 30 minutes later to scream and curse the group for not proceeding without them (I've actually had that happen when we didn't continue through the mission while someone sat there afk)... the list goes on.

As for people not talking... no idea as I turned off local chat ages ago due to trade spam. So the multiplayer aspect of this game died when Anet's trade spam filter stopped being updated and I found it bothersome to have to add/remove people from the ignore list constantly just to make a team. Add to that, the above mentioned problems with putzes with no respect to others in game... yea, multiplayer? No, more like "How can one take advantage of another" is how many are playing GW these days. The only people I've grouped with for months now are those in my alliance or own guild. So Heroes alone would have sold me on Nightfall, just so I could go back and finally enjoy some of the other areas of the game that were ruined by others.

Ebony Shadowheart · Nov 01, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Heroes can be a good thing and a bad thing I guess. I don't play PvP really so I have no thoughts on that aspect of the game.

However, I tend to play alone a lot or with my fiance. Normally we hench (and now use heroes) for quests and then try to PuG missions. However, even before NF's launch, it was getting harder and harder to find groups. For the most part we play the games in order (Proph, Fact, NF) and most of our chars are Proph born, but it's becoming impossible to find mission groups in that game. Heroes (the few we have) help to fill out the group if we can't find enough.

However, there have also been those times where we didn't want to deal with finding people and just took heroes into a mission.

SpeedyKQ · Nov 01, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

I'm pretty worried about the death of the PUG too. Playing with others is often just more fun. Not neccessarily easier, but more fun.

The PUG-complainers exaggerate the problems. Nine times out of ten you get nice people, at least a few of whom are competent enough to get the job done.

I have been enjoying the heroes, but my plan has been to play at least a couple of my characters through Nightfall with no heroes at all, pugging all of the missions. Don't know if that will be possible, though.

EPO Bot · Nov 01, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I love heroes! Talkhora with restore condition = hug

But awesome solo potential aside, no one will stop you from entering player parties at any time. Fact is: You won't find a lot of people who want to map the large area's with you.

IMO, you can never have enough options.Remeber:Everything can be done with players if you can find them. But if the majority wants to solo, so be it.

tomcruisejr · Nov 01, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

though heroes are nice and almost perfect, i still prefer playing with human players. there's nothing priceless than human interaction - trash talking jerks, being trashed talked at, convincing the team that the mission isnt really hard, roleplaying, possible e-romance, team work, dealing with different people with different minds and personalities, assimilation, respect for others, word wars, thought exchange, etc. no henchmen can do that for you.

MasterThrawn · Nov 01, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Yeah - I prefer real players if I can get a group together. The idea of having a Monk hero though is awesome. Hard to find a monk in a lot of places, so that I like. The other day I was on the starter island in Factions, and some idiot kept asking me if he could have my drops - they weren't even good. Like a Monstrous Fang or something, and he would leave the entire party and run back accross the entire map to get it after it became un-assigned. Of course he was the monk

Now you find that kind of entertainment with a Hero! It was kind of funnny because he was calling us Noobs for not waiting for him.

bj91x · Nov 01, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Pasting what I posted on gwonline, as this is basically the same thing. I never liked PUG and almost never LFGed for PUG. Being able to use heroes has made the game so much better for me. Honestly, people who are using heroes throughout this game are most likely the people who henchied their way through most of previous chapters, so it shouldn't affect people who PUG. I personally haven't seen a decrease in people LFG for PUGging.

Quote:

Last minute thing to bring henchmen? Once you learn to play the game well and are good at the game, you pretty much learn that henchies are the better choice. In fact, most good players only play with PUG when they absolutely have to (as in henchies couldn't split up for Eternal Grove masters, won't heal the turtles for Gyala, and no friends/guildies are available to help). It goes, Guildies/Allies and good players <- henchies <- majority of PUG.

I love the heroes in Nightfall as I can completely hero/hench every mission in the game without any problems. No more waiting and retrying missions over and over and over with PUG, just to complete bonus/masters. I never liked playing with PUG, and now, I have no need to play with annoying PUG, which made the game experience worse for me.

The only exception is Vizunah and Unwaking, as no matter how I set up my hero/henchies, I could still end up with crappy PUG on the other side, instead of more reliable henchies.

As for playing with people, playing with heroes didn't diminish my desire to play with people. Like I said, I almost never played with PUG and hated playing with PUG. I do play with guildies and allies on a regular basis and that has not changed. In fact, now it's even more fun to play with guildies and allies as even with a small 2-man group, we can bring our own heroes for some fun.

Think of it this way. There were people who liked PUGging and people who didn't like PUGging. People who didn't like PUGging already avoided PUG as much as possible, but were forced to PUG in certain situations. Before, the game favored people who liked to PUG as it forced the PUG haters to play with PUG. Now, PUG haters have a choice of not PUGging and play the game their way, while people who like to PUG can still PUG.

I am thankful for heroes as it makes playing with guildies and allies more fun, while allowing me to avoid playing with random people I don't want to play with.

Sidra · Nov 01, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Certain missions require humans, such as the first "real" one in the Diggings area (one that wasn't cannon fodder for freaking babies w/ butter knives). You needed a human to carry the tablets, and it's a little more challenging (tried it a few times w/ different combos of human/hero ratio) to do it with mostly heroes. It also seems much less fun.

On a side note, I hate PuG's with a flaming passion. I've been what I can only call "verbally abused" so harshly, so repetitively, in such elitist and dumbass fashions, that I can really only say that if I talk, it's to say "shut up you idiot" when I have to PuG. It's really, really rare that you find someone worthwhile or competent in one of them. Granted, I've made friends from PuGs, and had my fare share of really fun/funny experiences, but for the most part, the community of guildwars was what caused me to take a 4-month sabbatical. It disgusted me. Now with Nightfall and Heroes, I only have to play with people minimally, or when I choose to. I see tons of people looking for groups still, and groups being made. It's not as bleak as some people would have you think for the "LFG generation of PvE". We've just been given a smarter way to play and avoid people you don't like.

Terk and Friends · Nov 01, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

One thing that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned yet... it's hard to make good PuG's in Nightfall when an overwhelming majority of players are dervishes or paragons. A little hard to make a good, balanced group in those circumstances.

I love the hero system - customizable henchmen who can have secondary professions and changable builds? Are you KIDDING me?

Plus, the social interface (and pretty much everything regarding interacting with other players in GW, for that matter) is pretty lacking - nothing makes me hate a game more than not being able to find a group for something.

Now if only there were an auction house...

anonymous · Nov 02, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

If people want to play solo, then that is their choice. I don't think it is detrimental to the game, I think it is an improvement. Some players like myself don't like to put up with idiots in pugs, and henchmen were great for avoiding that. Heros are an improvement on henchmen and for me that is good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

though heroes are nice and almost perfect, i still prefer playing with human players. there's nothing priceless than human interaction - trash talking jerks, being trashed talked at, convincing the team that the mission isnt really hard, roleplaying, possible e-romance, team work, dealing with different people with different minds and personalities, assimilation, respect for others, word wars, thought exchange, etc. no henchmen can do that for you.

Bolded words/phrases are reasons I avoid PuGs. I'm not anti-social, I'm just anti-idiot.
Underlinded words/phrase are things I have never seen in a PuG.

eggs0wn · Nov 02, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

I PUG 90% of the time and I never get some flaming idiot. On the rare occasions I do everyone else is sensible and we just put the one person on our ignore list and continue.I enjoy PUGs cuz' you get to interact with other people. And I don't mind Heros cuz I mean c'mon, who doesn't love customizable henchies? So now I can PUG and Hero/Hench or mix. For me, the Hero system just gave me more options on how to complete quests and missions.

Thallandor · Nov 02, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronSwitchblade

My question is this - are heroes actually a good thing? Is the game going to improve as a result of their inclusion?

Like all things there are two sides to a coin, experienced players wont have to suffer PuG, the poor and inexperienced players will suffer amoung themselves until they learn better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronSwitchblade

However, what bothers me is that potentially, there are a lot of players that "sit on the fence" with henchmen and random player groups. Is it likely, then, that this group of players (which could be sizeable) will begin to forego the entire multiplayer aspect of Guild Wars, preferring instead a completely solo experience? And could this have a detrimental effect on the game?

To some extend,with the introduction of Heros, Guildwars PvE is fast turning into a online single player game (not agruing if thats a good or bad thing here) some players will benefit others will suffer or learn to play as stated in my response above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronSwitchblade

Then of course, there are certain classes that can have trouble getting into groups in PvE, such as Assassins and primary Mesmers, because many players aren't aware how much they can offer a team in the right hands. Is this going to make their experience more difficult?

Thats the whole point of Heros, Classes that had trouble finding groups now have the options of Heros to go through the game with them without having to suffer rejection in traditional groups. But with this system, no longer will inexperienced players be "carried' forward through the game by more experienced players, your success and failures are your own exclusively. This time there is no longer name calling/rage quit/finger pointing/blame placing. You suck, you die. The truth is always hard to sallow, sorry to sound hash but if you read this and understand what this means then you will also understand both the good and bad of heros.

chrislee149 · Nov 02, 2006, 02:48 AM // 02:48

I'm not really getting the same satisfaction out of GW without the multiplayer aspect, to be honest. You don't really see any "LFG!!!" anymore. At first it sounds awesome, but then my joy faded. It's not really an optional thing - PUGs don't really exist anymore; at least not as much. And friends are probably adventuring by themselves and are too busy to join in.

I'm still enjoying the game traveling with heroes, of course. I do love the convienience factor of henchmen plus the customizability of real players simutaneously. But it's just a different experience. The only communication I really have is through guild chat and whispers.

Rathcail · Nov 02, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

won't heal the turtles for Gyala

Just a small correction, the henchies do heal the turtles. Of course they don't think the turtles are a priority compared to party members, but at least the healing they did got me a masters reward in Gyala.

saphir · Nov 02, 2006, 10:50 AM // 10:50

i used to pug 99% of the time... overall, i've had many more good groups than bad, and some of the best people i usually meet in pugs. It's the random interaction and meeting of people I enjoy, whether it be killing them or killing with them. Just like how a sort of camraderie forms in the Yak's Bend pvp arenas, even if they're on the enemy team and are very good at giving you grief.

Sadly now, w/ both my new lvl 9 dervish and my ported lvl 20 monk, towns and mission areas are mostly silent. There's the constant WTS spam in the chef areas, but even in mission areas I might see one desperate LFG every 5-10 minutes. Everyone is dark blue and therefore in a party, with many more parties than players in town I can only assume they're all hero'd and henched up.
Every so often you'll find a random person but they'll add 3 heroes, and I'll add 3 heroes simply because no one else is looking for a party. 8/8 and you're off.

This entire game seems to be headed down the single player road. And without practice and experience of working in a "team" with others.. I can only imagine what it may be like near end game areas where people may have to form human parties out of necessity. Will playing only with heroes who you can position and activate skills for prepare new players for all human player team efforts?

I don't know.. I'm not that far along in nightfall yet.

All I know is my monk sheds a tear everytime she watches another party take Dunkuro out the portal instead of her. It's awfully boring as a monk when the behavior of the party you are healing becomes as predictable as the enemy AI. Monking for pugs is where the challenge was.

It's sort of like playing Battlefield 1942/2/2046 w/ AI enemy and teammates.. you can do it, but it's not exactly exciting

Zamochit · Nov 02, 2006, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Heros are by far my favourite addition to the game for this chapter.

If you (like me) have shall we say fairly nocturnal habits and are still playing around 2 or 3 am. PVE up until now really wasnt much fun. The hench were an unco-ordinated suicidal rabble, and the likelyhood of finding a monk at three in the morning was such that Mhenlo was usually the only available option.

Now we not only have 'henchmen' whose skills we can change, we can change their attributes, give them whatever equipment and rune combinations we like....we can actually tell them what to do and when to do it, Anet have always pushed pvp to us in the past, now they have done something that gives the game much more depth for PVE players.

When Hero set up and control is done well it can be like having a very co-ordinated team.

It has also changed the face of solo green farming forever.

I am a massive fan of the hero system.

When finding a decent group isnt possible, now you can still get through the missions comfortably.

Necromonger · Nov 02, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Heroes saved the playability of the game for me.

1. I don't have to wait 30 mins for a PUG to do a mission or bonus
2. I can go exploring, or skill capturing on my own (see point below)
3. You can't henchie everything, try doing Feast of Corruption Skill Cap with henchies ... did it last night with my heroes +henchies
4. Funny how the people who say PUG are good, tend to be people with a Monk or Warrior as their primary char.

PUG are often terrible, I have had some great experiences with good/co-ordinated groups, but most of the time

1. You get people who simple can't play, I've seen PUG's die in missions I easily henchied (with original henchies).
2. People leave in the middle of missions (Monks & Warriors, very annoying)
3. People don't bring res (I always do, just in case)
4. Run all over and aggro everything
5. Very hard to get a group if you are not particular professions (I have the easiest time, usually less than 5 mins, finding a PUG for nything with my Monk)
6. List goes on ....

Some people are saying it's now a online single player game, maybe it is, but I was actually looking to buy a single player game, because PUG's & Henchies were soooo fustrating some days.

Now, if I want, I solo (with heroes/henchies), and if I feel to, I look for PUG's or my Guildies.

blackdoctor · Nov 02, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Indeed. First of all heroes are not whiners, or blame you, or worse: offend you, or left you in a middle of nowhere. Heroes can collaborate and work together for the group, not many players that i know can do that. No more frustrating attempts to be in a group when you are using a non fashion profession (aka mesmer, sin, or rit). You don't need to be in a guild or wait that your friends get connected for go to farm or go for your titles. Heroes does not need to leave their computers because dad wants to use it. Now that most of Cantha and Tyria are ghost towns, Heroes are a good choice.

Best Regards

Psyks · Nov 02, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Finding people is harder. I think it would be wise to change the icon above peoples heads if it includes heros.

Makes it hard who to invite when everyone has a blue 4 above their head.

Another colour perhaps?