Curse

Monkey Man 5000 · Oct 29, 2006, 03:06 AM // 03:06

This is for everyone that has Nightfall, at least 1 hero, and have had a lot of experience with guildwars or factions

I want to know if your hero "learns" how to use a build whether it be on its own or if you have to constantly execute their skills in a certain order

For example, a renewal echo nuker, you could do arcane echo > meteor shower > renewal > meteor shower or renewal > meteor shower > arcane echo > meteor shower

Is it possible to "teach" your hero either way to do it (as in if you use the skills in a set order a lot the hero will pick it up), does the hero figure it out without your input, or is it not possible and you have to "babysit" your hero (execute their build while you just stand there)? I have a build that has 4 skills that need to be executed as 1, 2, 3, 4 left to right. The renewal echo nuker has those 3 skills that need to be used back and forth.

I've been reluctant to buy Nightfall because of this issue so I'd appreciate anything you've encountered with your heros builds

desolatorman · Oct 29, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

you can queue certain skills that you want him to cast more frequently... but i dont think they have the capablity to utilize an actual build

because they are AI... not human

Dravyn · Oct 29, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Actually, I set up Koss with a For Greater Justice/Dragon Slash build and he does it like a champ. Perfect execution, from what I can tell, but the mobs die pretty fast at the stage I'm in, so its hard for me to tell how he does in an extended battle.

Monkey Man 5000 · Oct 29, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

I know some skills require a condition to be met before used and the heros know that, but some ai have proper builds

The Ice Imp for example, will use Mind Freeze to slow you, then Maelstrom, even though Maelstrom doesn't need the player to be moving slow as any type of condition to be met

Ice Imp's when you aggro them always use Mind Freeze 1st

Would a hero do that?

Can someone find out?

The truth itself · Oct 29, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Heroes are idiots at using some skills.

Some skills have have more than one purpose, eg. heroes will cast guradian if you're being attacked... Good.

But if you give them a prot build, they refuse to heal via divine favor of casting guardian.. Not good.

Synthetic · Oct 29, 2006, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey Man 5000

I know some skills require a condition to be met before used and the heros know that, but some ai have proper builds

The Ice Imp for example, will use Mind Freeze to slow you, then Maelstrom, even though Maelstrom doesn't need the player to be moving slow as any type of condition to be met

Ice Imp's when you aggro them always use Mind Freeze 1st

Would a hero do that?

Can someone find out?

Mindfreeze does serve a purpose there. It prevents the player from simply running out of maelstorm right away. If the interrupts do not get a chance to serve their purpose it is at least a few more guaranteed hits while moving 90% slower or whatever mind freeze is.

Fistandantulus · Oct 29, 2006, 06:15 AM // 06:15

i think thats the point monkey man is trying to make, even though they dont have to, the imps use mind freeze first to make malestrom more effective

Monkey Man 5000 · Oct 29, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fistandantulus

i think thats the point monkey man is trying to make, even though they dont have to, the imps use mind freeze first to make malestrom more effective

Fist knows what I'm talkin' about

If you were to give a hero Mind Freeze and Maelstrom, at the start of every battle would your hero always use Mind Freeze followed by Maelstrom like the Ice Imps (or any other slow and aoe skill)? If not, do you think there should be a way to "script" your hero so it does it automatically?

I would want more control over heros, not having say a monk hero using mend ailment on an ally being hit with apply poison

That's just stupid

Elasxa · Oct 29, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Give him Mend Condition or Restore Condition, then. Quicker recharge, and at least you get a guaranteed heal that way.

I guess if I find my heroes aren't using a build I gave them effectively, I will look for ways to adapt the build to their AI. Which isn't to say I will object to any upgrades ANet decide to make..

shadowmist · Oct 29, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

The AI is set up so it will use things as "intuitively" as the AI can. If there's a certain skill that has high priority in it's skill bar, it will cast if first on the target with the highest priority. If certain conditions are met, it will attempt to proceed with a proper response. At least that's my understanding of it. That's not to say they can do things like humans, but Anet did try their best. To my knowledge, you can't "teach" the AI skill combos not already set into their base AI.

My experience with heroes so far is fairly good, though just putting some of the builds I use onto them doesn't work out all the time. If Anet were to update with a way to have a hero use certain skills in a certain order it would be great. Like maybe having three slots on a skill bar kinda set so its slightly higher than the rest of the skills and have the skills you want used in a certain order in there?

SalamandraTheNinja · Oct 29, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

It seems... what we're asking for here, is exactly the same as the Gambit system. From FFXII.

explodemyheart · Oct 29, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

I set Talkora up with a boon prot build and she runs it better than I do

, even with the slam to MoR and inspired/revealed.

I set Olias up with an SS build, and he definitely throws down awaken -> arcane echo -> SS -> SS like a champ.

I plan on trying a heavy nuker build with Sousuke within the next couple of days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth itself

But if you give them a prot build, they refuse to heal via divine favor of casting guardian.. Not good.

Not sure what you're talking about here, Talkora did it fine for me earlier. And I'm talking about a prot build, not boon prot.

mrlopes · Oct 30, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

I set Talkora as a boon prot, and it uses it with no flaws, MoR as soon as the previous ends, Insp Hex used as soon as available/needed, RoF, Mend condition, it really does a nice job.
I've set Olias as a MM with Blood Ritual as first skill and it also uses the build very very good, for instance he don't spam Flesh Golem, it just uses it when the previous near to dead or already dead.
Koss with a Dragon Slash build also work perfect (he keeps Watch Yourself always on).
The ranger/mesmer (don't remember name now) is set as a barrager/interrupter and it work like a charm.

So I'm pretty happy with the heroes AI. When things don't work as we expected maybe we could change it a little bit.
My Ele Centaur hero, i've set with a Earth build, not worked so well, cause it uses exaustion skills to often, so it just needs a little adjustment and is doing well now.

justadude · Oct 30, 2006, 09:49 AM // 09:49

After choosing Jin I set her up with Poison Arrow / Screaming shot and that worked well, but where she really shines is set as an interrupt. Now oppsing mobs never seem to cast anything. With Jin armed with three interrupts I dont even take the healers out first.

Triamn · Oct 30, 2006, 10:26 AM // 10:26

I set jin up with practice stance/choking gas, and its giving me no trouble either.

milcs · Oct 30, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Just want to say that my Heroes with Boon Prot or Shock Warrior, run these builds perfectly!
Dankoro puts divine boon as soon as we enter an area and keeps casting mantra of recall and recasting it when it runs off!
I'm completely AMAZED with the AI levels and I completely think they have done an astonishing job in this matter!
Well done Anet!

cataphract · Oct 30, 2006, 11:48 AM // 11:48

I've set up Koss with sever artery, gash, final thrust, hundred blades, watch yourself - he's quite good at it, too. Tahlkora is a prot monk and was having trouble with energy management until I gave her PnH. She shines even brighter now that I have set the Whisper guy as curses/blood with Blood Ritual. Most of the time I can just watch them fight it out with the mobs while I cast party and aegis every now and then.

Hengis · Oct 30, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Setting up my ranger hero with a simple barrage pet build and she plays it better than I can!

The AI seems to know when barrage is going to hit multiple targets and when it is not, and if it is not going to hit multiple targets then she uses a single arrow attack.

My son was watcing me play and he commented on the amount of times she used skills in exactly the same order and at exactly the same time as I did.

All in all, the Hero AI is pretty amazing.

SeraCombi · Oct 30, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by justadude

After choosing Jin I set her up with Poison Arrow / Screaming shot and that worked well, but where she really shines is set as an interrupt. Now oppsing mobs never seem to cast anything. With Jin armed with three interrupts I dont even take the healers out first.

werd that brother! I've been slavering to set my new ranger hero [jin] up as an interupter. so much so that i've saved the build for Daeman (the factions henchie interupter) found on guildwiki...so that I can replicated it on jin. I figure that if it works well on him, it will work well on another AI-controlled unit.

Suuk · Oct 30, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I have the horseguy set as fire/earth ele with renewal, ward vs elements and MS (setup for a specific quest). He casts the glyph and insists on using a ward directly after that....well, that is if you do the ctrl+spacebar+target thing. I ended up by turning off the ward, because he was casting it even when fighting non-elemental dmg mobs.