Curse

Former Ruling · Sep 29, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13

ELITE ANALYSIS (if you check my psots, doing this for every class

)

Ravenous Gaze:
For competitive play - Useless. For some freaky farming build someone is bound to come up with - Good, but why not use Grenth's Balance >_<

Corrupt Enchantment:
Even if the health degen is from removing an enchant - Its STILL great. 10 recharge enchant removal and better than Life Transfer.

Depravity:
Too high a recharge, too limited in uses to use in competitive play. In PvE - You'll always get it fine, but what do you need to e-denial grawl? No.

Tattered Bonds:
Could have been good with a slightly lower recharge and if BoonProts weren't nerfed...

Signet of Suffering:
Too little Dmg for that recharge.

Contagion:
You know the only use this will ever have? Someone will come up with some sort of 55Necro that uses Signet of Agony and crap, and It'll suck.

Jagged Bones:
Is HAXS. Forget Flesh Golem

This is my new MM elite.

ORder of Undeath:
Naw...Just not worth it...and if you have a whole army, you can take up to 20% dmg everytime they atk, on top of the BoTm...

Toxic Chill:
No think you...you know whats better than this, and has not much more of a condition - Discord.

Reaper's Mark:
Its limited in use...If they dont die then guess what, its an elite Conjure Phantasm. SBRI is a use I guess

Kaida the Heartless · Sep 29, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I think some people are failing to look outside of the box.

Contagion is one of the best situational skills when used right. Here is one scenario:
Most necromancers in GvG play support roles, often as N/Mo's. Imagine Draw Conditions with Contagion. Then again, the necro would have to move into the enemy backline to really get this skill working, but with experienced monks, calling for a Prot Spirit isn't really that difficult. You can now throw any condition onto everyone "in the area". Imagine the possibilities when you rip deep wound off a target ally and throw it onto four people in the enemy's caster line. One player could single handedly throw a condition based degeneration build back onto itself. Consider this skill a much more effective and controllable form of Fevered Dreams (mesmer).

Tattered Bonds is also good. Gaze of Contemp anyone? Shatter Enchantment also ftw? Anti-Smitee (not the smiter but the smiter's target)? Imagine throwing this bad boy onto a target before a spike. RoF becomes deadly. Shatter Enchantment at a decent level will do over 150 damage in unison with this skill. To finish it off, why not rip all the enchantments off a target at once with Gaze of Contempt (assuming they have alot to begin with).

Depravity = dead smiters? A smiter can't simply move away from everyone without sacrificing efficiency (on most maps). If that doesn't work, why not make a target move away from everyone? He's just moved up on the target priority list. Granted this skill has less use than many of the other one's, but losing 7 energy every time your buddy casts a spell hurts ANYONE's energy pool, even if only two casts got through. Imagine that every cast is 1 energy short of a Signet of Weariness. That's some powerful stuff! Throw this on a monk before a spike and cause anyone sitting near him to be drained of their energy (with the exception of elementalists, but most of those use Ether Prodigy anyways, in which case, this skill would only help them). I think this skill could use a drop in recharge time, but other than that, I think it could be effective if used right.

In conclusion, I think that secondary classes are a major factor when considering the "usefullness" of skills. Most here are only pulling skills from the Necromancer's skill line.

And it's finally nice to see some other effective Death Magic skills that don't relate to raising the dead. Maybe well see some skills other than tainted on non-mm death necros when Nightfall comes out!

Hella Good · Sep 29, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Contagion is very farmish and fits nicely in a Dark Aura build (it causes sac, triggers DA, shares the same attribute so you can pump up DM). I don't think you can really use Contagion otherwise on a Necro. However, it's not out of question that the skill might find it's place on Warriors and Sins.

Tattered Bonds is so-so. I know it's efficient vs Dervishes and Monks but it seems a little niche. Not to say it's a bad skill, I think it's an ok skill actually, just situational.

Depravity and Toxic Chill are the only 2 skills that I am not impressed by. I just think that what they achieve isn't anything that other skills cant already do, and do it better. That's all.

deathfenix · Oct 03, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

First, im wondering if Animate Bone minions can add up to 20 bone minions, or does it only add up to 10 minions as in u can cast animate bone minions 10 time or only 5 to the minion cap?

If it works where u can have 20 bone minions, combine that with jagged bones= 20 jagged horrors

Angel Develin · Oct 03, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
nice new elite skills

me like very much
tnx for putting the skills here.

Blackhawk · Oct 03, 2006, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathfenix

First, im wondering if Animate Bone minions can add up to 20 bone minions, or does it only add up to 10 minions as in u can cast animate bone minions 10 time or only 5 to the minion cap?

If it works where u can have 20 bone minions, combine that with jagged bones= 20 jagged horrors

Errr if there's a 10 minion cap you wont get 20 now will you

Jeff Highwind · Oct 30, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Bumping this thread to comment that they shafted Corrupt Enchantment. You have to remove an enchantment to get the degen now; I can see it being useful against Dervishes or monks but that's about it.

AuraofMana · Oct 30, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Order of Undeath is awesome for 10 Fiend raping MM except the health cost. Mending + Healing Breeze and some minion eating should keep you alive.. I think... still need to cap it.

NTsan · Oct 30, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

That where Signet of Lost Soul comes to play.. the must own E+HP management skill for Necro primary (9E and 88HP every 8s on 13SR)

Lord Oranos · Nov 01, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Reapers Mark is awesome....

Trylo · Nov 01, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

reapers mark + soul barbs spike

then youd get rid of the deadly arts too!

Darkpower Alchemist · Nov 01, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Situational? Situations are made, my friends. Even though people may prefer to have a multipurpose type of Elite, the things that builds in general promote are the creating of a situation.

Whether it be spikes,degen, kd builds, or whatever tickles your teams fancy at the time, all builds generally create a situation.

Necros have some good Elites imo, and I can't wait to try the new elites. Being a necro secondary makes the skills less potent, but still useable.

I won't start that war here...

However, I like what I have been seeing in the necro line, thus far, and I am looking forward to further experimentation.

Halfthought · Nov 02, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

ELITE ANALYSIS (if you check my psots, doing this for every class

)

Ravenous Gaze:
For competitive play - Useless. For some freaky farming build someone is bound to come up with - Good, but why not use Grenth's Balance >_<

Corrupt Enchantment:
Even if the health degen is from removing an enchant - Its STILL great. 10 recharge enchant removal and better than Life Transfer.

Depravity:
Too high a recharge, too limited in uses to use in competitive play. In PvE - You'll always get it fine, but what do you need to e-denial grawl? No.

Tattered Bonds:
Could have been good with a slightly lower recharge and if BoonProts weren't nerfed...

Signet of Suffering:
Too little Dmg for that recharge.

Contagion:
You know the only use this will ever have? Someone will come up with some sort of 55Necro that uses Signet of Agony and crap, and It'll suck.

Jagged Bones:
Is HAXS. Forget Flesh Golem

This is my new MM elite.

Order of Undeath:
Naw...Just not worth it...and if you have a whole army, you can take up to 20% dmg everytime they atk, on top of the BoTm...

Toxic Chill:
No think you...you know whats better than this, and has not much more of a condition - Discord.

Reaper's Mark:
Its limited in use...If they dont die then guess what, its an elite Conjure Phantasm. SBRI is a use I guess

reaper mark is great in all forms of pvp, it cripples gvg runners with limited hex removal, and it can be maintained on 3 people, conjure phantasm cna be maintained on 2 for 3 times the energy.

toxic chill, nah, its pretty good, poison last a long time, and recharge is decent, I see this being used on a gvg support neco

contagion. I actually see this being used on warriros and monks, with great results, I mean, no mroe blind, no more daze, no more cripple? thats brilliant!
order of undeath adds 280 damage, 17X10 minions, a bone fiend attack twice every 5 seconds, for 280 damage

.

Signet of suffering, sure the recharge is long, but on a degen pressure build, 2 degen necros/mesmer could use this as a mini spike, 280 damage take them from 280 health, which kills.

Alt F Four · Nov 02, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

And now, Alt F Four will nit-pick your analysis, but only the ones I disagree with.

You need to look at this skill from the perspective of the other Blood Magic Elites. There is exactly zero other offensive non-hex Blood Elites. None. Zero. To make matters worse, Blood Magic also has some pretty lame cover hexes, unless you want to spread your attributes across Soul Reaping and Curses. The thing that makes this skill powerful is it's a great self heal. I'd love to see you use Blood Renewal when you're at the Deep End of your health bar.

And need I forget, ArenaNet was so kind to give us Undertaker's Armor in Nightfall, the perfect duds for a powerful Blood Magic Spell. However, it's uses drop in low level PvE and high level PvP. REMEMBER: If you're under 50%, you steal that 90+ damage plus the orignial. Consider... Undertaker's + a zero-curse Rip Enchantment?

This is the best way Anet could of made an offensive non-hex Blood Elite. Anything else would of been Blood Spike bait and turned into a cookie cutter skill. Sorry, but we all know it's true.

Rating: 8/10

Heros make this skill great for PvE. Ice Ele + Curses Degen + This and Soul Barbs and various other damaging curses = The rest of the party can be healers, we have enough damage.

That and it gives hex-pressure builds room to pluck off enemies at their will.

Usless? No. Better then sliced bread? Hardly. You're too harsh.

Rating: 7/10

Dispite popular opinion, when you stand at melee range you don't instantly die. Melee comes to you. Wait till the enemy melee finds a target, and then you're cool.

People don't really look closely at how many conditions you can inflict on yourself. Burning Speed + Contagion = zomgtonsofburning. Oh, and I'm subtracting a point for baiting Fragility Mesmers.

Rating: 7/10

I have an idea! Let's make a skill that requires annoying micro-managing on minions, whom you'll need to manually select to apply this skill, and you can't even do it quickly with a five second recharge. Infinite level 16 minions + even more micro-management for an Minion Master? Minion Bombing is frustrating enough. Flesh Golem + Death Nova + Putrid Explotion > This skill.

Try it for yourself. It's too clunky. Anything would of been better. It would be awsome if it worked like an area enchantment. See 'Dwayna's Sorrow.'

That and high level PvE totally owns level 16 melee minions. Sure, you can bomb with it, but at that point, I'd rather take an PBAoE Ele. :P

Rating: 2/10

How THIS is a Minion Master skill I can sink my teeth into. See my full damage analysis here: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Talk:Or...th#Not_suicide

Rating: 9/10

14 Soul Reaping > 13 Soul Reaping. You get it up to -6 degen.

Rating: 9.5/10

And like a good forum poster, I wait till after my post to read the rest of the thread.

Hella Good · Nov 02, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Well, I still think that Contagion isn't all that great, if it removed the condition from you and transfered it to nearby foes that would make the skill a lot more intriguing. It's not a bad skill, just not really all that great.

And I disagree about Jagged Bones. It doesn't require crazy micro management. It's actually extremely easy to use. You can also use it on a hero MM, see how that goes. They don't have problems with micro. If I could use it with 0 problems the first time I got my hands on it, I think anyone can. YOU are being too harsh on this skill. It is actually one of the best Necro elites in NF.

And I like the idea of pumping Reaper's Mark up, IF you are playing a build that can facilitate high SR. Hex Spammer does that. Could be fun to use with Life Siphon/PB. LS maxes out at low levels of Blood, and PB doesn't need all that many points in Curses. Life Siphon + RM + PB = 10 degen in this situation. And the usual Faintheartedness that goes on a Hex Spammer can be replaced by Shadow of Fear which- again- doesn't require high Curses. Toss in Sig of Sorrow for a nice finishing move. 14 SR, 12 Blood, 11 Curses is a wonderful attribute point split to use in this build.

Glasswalker · Nov 02, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Non-tested build[/Caveat]
Contagion {E}
Infuse Condition
Animate Shambling Horror
Taste of Death
Chilblains
Insidious Parasite
Arcane Echo
Res Signet

Don't really care much about the minion, just a cheap way to get the condition off yourself, and a source of healing from ToD, and hey, when he dies, you Infuse the resulting Jagged Horror again.

Arcane Echo, Insidious Parasite on 2 enemies.
Run into melee range with Contagion on you.
Infuse Condition is your cover enchantment.
Any conditions they put on you won't effect you, but will effect them (and anyone else in range).
Chilblains will do good damage, and poison all around you, and remove 2 enchantments as well.

16 DM, 8 SR, 11 C... Energy will be very tight... Am I forgetting anything?
Dark Aura or Signet of Lost Souls could be nice variations on this build.

Malice Black · Nov 03, 2006, 12:53 AM // 00:53

I'm looking forward to playing with Reapers Mark...the rest look so so..not a big MM fan so the death skills hold no interest to me.

Alt F Four · Nov 03, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Well, I still think that Contagion isn't all that great, if it removed the condition from you and transfered it to nearby foes that would make the skill a lot more intriguing. It's not a bad skill, just not really all that great.

And I disagree about Jagged Bones. It doesn't require crazy micro management. It's actually extremely easy to use. You can also use it on a hero MM, see how that goes. They don't have problems with micro. If I could use it with 0 problems the first time I got my hands on it, I think anyone can. YOU are being too harsh on this skill. It is actually one of the best Necro elites in NF.

And I like the idea of pumping Reaper's Mark up, IF you are playing a build that can facilitate high SR. Hex Spammer does that. Could be fun to use with Life Siphon/PB. LS maxes out at low levels of Blood, and PB doesn't need all that many points in Curses. Life Siphon + RM + PB = 10 degen in this situation. And the usual Faintheartedness that goes on a Hex Spammer can be replaced by Shadow of Fear which- again- doesn't require high Curses. Toss in Sig of Sorrow for a nice finishing move. 14 SR, 12 Blood, 11 Curses is a wonderful attribute point split to use in this build.

Melee level 16 minions, for the lack of a better term, suck. People are going crazy about 'infinite minions'. It's stupid. You know what's better then so called 'infinite minions'? Bone Fiends. Point. Case. With Aura of the Lich + BotM spam, I have never EVER had a problem with running low on minions. And my minions don't run away from battle.

Sure, it's an interesting skill, but other forms of minion mastery completely over-shadow it. I rather take Flesh Golem.

Edit: And Toxic Chill is awsome in a degen-pressure build. Don't give me that 'Dur I'll just use Posion shot'. Spell > Arrow Speed. GG.

Hella Good · Nov 03, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Ugh, I don't care for the minions... their only purpose is to Death Nova them, have them reanimate due to Jagged, and Death Nova them again... and so on. JB is a minion bomb elite, it has nothing to do with regular MM-ing. They only need to last long enough to hit to cause Bleeding to be combined with the Poision and Spike damage of the Nova. Maybe even Desease on top, if you are using Putrid Flesh along with Taste of Death to kill em. Why do you even bother with the actual minion itself? It's simply a passive means to do damage. It's just a medium. Seriously, if some1 is using JB for non Minion Bomb builds, they gotta go back to their MM Bible and reread it... JB allows for constant massive AoE damage, combined with conditions, all the while managing your nrg passively through SR. It's that simple.

Jeff Highwind · Nov 03, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

How exactly do you manage to keep JB and DN on all 10 of those minions (or whatever amount you intend)? Those little f***ers never stand still and if you press V you are more likely to target your healer.