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Old Oct 28, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51   #121
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Honestly , I think this update is too much for a nerf. I loved GW in the beginning and farming has its fun but taking away farming is too much .I love solo farming not just for the money but for more of a use of getting away from pug groups. It's fairly annoying dealing with idiots most of the time especially when it comes to FoW.I liked solo'ing because if you mess up it's your fault and you have no one to blame . I feel like 70% of the time I join a random pug I see stupid arguements and people rage quiting . PVE doesn't offer much to begin with , once you're done with it there is really nothing left to look forward to but farming and getting nice things you like . Yeah there's PVP but to me PVP is about who you know or the guild you're in . Starting from rank 0 and getting into pugs takes long enough as it is . I don't enjoy sitting in HA for 2 hours just to get into a group of rage quiters , i've done this from rank 0 to 5 and I can't waste time with that anymore , it's not enjoyable . At least with farming before the update you could have a goal to get something within a reasonable amount of time . I don't mind spending 3 weeks for FoW armor by farming but making it 5 months or more worth of farming is too much . I'm not saying farming is over because hey NF is out and there's that much more skills that could be used for new farming builds but if there's no hope in that I can't say i'll be playing GW much longer.
Even the makers of GW from the making of NF DVD said they focus the game around it's players and take in opinions from these forums and etc but if that's so I can't understand this nerf. What do the players gain from such a big loss?

Last edited by technician; Oct 28, 2006 at 06:13 AM // 06:13..
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Old Oct 28, 2006, 06:29 AM // 06:29   #122
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if they can affort a pc and GW and internet then they can affort food. And if they are starving then they better go find a job instead of playing games while there children are starving. None of what u are saying makes sence. See for the price of internet and a pc they could feed there family a year...
You know it would actually help if you know what you are talking about. The post you replied to earlier was partialy correct. None of those mentioned chinese farmers own a PC or have their own internet access. These farmers are high school \college youth that ran away from home or are looking for other means to support themselves or a place to live.
Those owners of these chinese virtual gold selling companies are offering food, a bed space and payment. In return those kids have to play 12 hours a day.
Those of them that want to get out can't because it's not that easy.
How can you find a job without any kind of degree. Eventhough I don't agree on what's going on, i think it is still better than living in the streets and robbing people or selling drugs.
There was an interesting report concering that issue on television.

Now my 2 cents to the farming issue. Admit it or not, we all take advantage of farmers. It's the reason why Ectos dropped from14k to 7k, it's the reason why Green weapons are affordable for everybody, and it lowers material prices. It's supply and demand, farmers throw a lot into the market which results in decreasing prices. The effect is relative. Take some high end greens for example that were priced beyond 100k and which are now available for 40-50k. For some this might be a positive effect since a desired green just has become a lot more affordable. For those however that paid 100k or farm an resell for 100k it's anything but positive. The farmer of course has to lower his price in order to sell and hence makes less money. Well so much to those that believe farming is evil.
Well I believe that soon new farming builds will appear. It's just a matter of time...until Anet will nerf them again lol
Now why does Anet hold such a grudge against farming. High end items are expensive enough and for most casual player almost unattainable. Does Anet want us to give up our lives in order to attain prestige items ? Sure prestige items shouldn't be easy to attain.
Farming for fissure or other high end items I wanted was the only thing that kept me playing after finishing the story line with all my characters. I pretty much feel the same way as technician concerning PUG's. I remember the Sorrows Furnace days where I sometimes didnt get a single run done within 3 hours, just because of rage quitters or people that quit because of newbies in the group.
Further nerfing and the killing of farming would have a huge impact on the game economy.

Last edited by Ayumi Mogami; Oct 28, 2006 at 07:21 AM // 07:21..
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Old Oct 28, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan the Skank
The game doesn't know what it wants to be, and it doesn't know what the players want it to be.
QFT!

Ok, first let's get this clear... I absolutely LOVE Guild Wars. But that was such a funny, yet spot-on statement, i had to highlight it! As i said, i'm an uber GW fan, but his statement rings true.

Maybe chapter 10 will finalize just WHAT the game is supposed to be. LoL.
Just some food for thought eh?

cheers!
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Old Oct 30, 2006, 06:26 AM // 06:26   #124
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ehh.... this might be offtopic, but what's "QFT"???

Aside from that, I agree with the above poster 100%.
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Old Oct 30, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24   #125
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Isn't Guild Wars suppost to be an MMO? Meaning you play with other people and not go off on your own to solo high end areas.

If you play through the game you will make enough money to fund a character, I started my De and give it no gold and items (Other than the pre-order scythe when he was ready).

By the time I got off the Island and to the Command Post I had enough gold to buy the 1k armor and I still had about 15k left over.

Why don't people actually take there time and play the game and enjoy it? Instead of rushing to get some status symbol to make them look "uber".
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Old Oct 30, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorwood
If you play through the game you will make enough money to fund a character, I started my De and give it no gold and items (Other than the pre-order scythe when he was ready).

.
isn't a max damage weapon usually most of the cost of a character i mean when i first started getting a max damage weapon was the hardest part of it as people who had them were selling them for a stupid amount of money, what about the people who didn't have the preorder? they won't have the starter Sythe or the Spear.
Solo farming is great clearing an area like snakes dance on your own took alot of hard work and was quite a skilled task quite a few people can do it but its still an achievement. Also most people that farm have played through the game several times i know thats the main reason i started to solo farm.
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Old Oct 30, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53   #127
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It's the skin of a weapon that dictates the price not the fact that it is max damage. And up until I was ready for it I was just using whatever dropped.

Don't forget about the collectors items (Ingame collectors) there max damage and just as good as greens and golds after you mod them, there's no reason to say "I have to farm to buy stuff". People farm because they want expensive items because they look nice. They don't improve your character at all.

I have beaten Prop and Factions several times, that's why I wanted to play NF with a "clean" character. I'm not saying farming is bad, my point was it's not the be all and end all of the game.

You can get by prefectly well without it.

Last edited by Razorwood; Oct 30, 2006 at 03:01 PM // 15:01..
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Old Oct 31, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31   #128
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Ok well it seems that for the most part people are complaining over nothing. The fact is you CAN still VwK in many places with little or no change to pre-nerf. If youkeep melee groups to a 'reasonable' size they will not scatter either despite their imminent demise.
There are are at least 4 builds that still are able to solo uw just the same as before (solo mind you not duo that the whining is all about). As for the moan that "it takes too long to solo"... well heres some simple math for you.. if it doesnt take much more than double the time the duo run took.. guess what? the odds are in your favour since you are not dividing drops by 2

THe overwhelming message that is coming across from this thread is that the majority of ppl are hoping for some new wonder build to come along... and why? So they can carbon copy it and go and exploit someone elses smarts to get what they are too lazy to put effort into getting for themselves.
Very little in this thread has comments such as.. i will go find another way or i will modify one of the old ways. It IS in the thread but very few people with that outlook.
The number of people who 'threaten' to go off and play lineage or wow or whatever too surprises me.. these are the ppl who moan at not being able to afford fow armour (bought with pretend money from a little invested time), but are more than happy to 'afford' to pay 15 quid a month for an online game instead of playing GW for free .... logic doesnt seem to follow sorry guys.
As a hopefully interesting closing statement i would like to add that i have had more green drops and rares from critters that got in the dam way while i was trying to sneak my butt round to the boss I intended farming.
My son actually accidentally discovered a way to farm Lian by the funniest situation too... he left town with no hench and 'bumped into her crew' and tried to escape.. only to discover a really cool way of shuffling her off the map
So the moral is.. dont whine cos your favourite off the shelf speed blitz (designed by someone else) isnt working effortlessly... get out there and tweak, modify and discover for yourself
and if all else fails... heck team with someone.
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Old Oct 31, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kondor
Ok well it seems that for the most part people are complaining over nothing. The fact is you CAN still VwK in many places with little or no change to pre-nerf. If youkeep melee groups to a 'reasonable' size they will not scatter either despite their imminent demise.
There are are at least 4 builds that still are able to solo uw just the same as before (solo mind you not duo that the whining is all about). As for the moan that "it takes too long to solo"... well heres some simple math for you.. if it doesnt take much more than double the time the duo run took.. guess what? the odds are in your favour since you are not dividing drops by 2

THe overwhelming message that is coming across from this thread is that the majority of ppl are hoping for some new wonder build to come along... and why? So they can carbon copy it and go and exploit someone elses smarts to get what they are too lazy to put effort into getting for themselves.
Very little in this thread has comments such as.. i will go find another way or i will modify one of the old ways. It IS in the thread but very few people with that outlook.
The number of people who 'threaten' to go off and play lineage or wow or whatever too surprises me.. these are the ppl who moan at not being able to afford fow armour (bought with pretend money from a little invested time), but are more than happy to 'afford' to pay 15 quid a month for an online game instead of playing GW for free .... logic doesnt seem to follow sorry guys.
As a hopefully interesting closing statement i would like to add that i have had more green drops and rares from critters that got in the dam way while i was trying to sneak my butt round to the boss I intended farming.
My son actually accidentally discovered a way to farm Lian by the funniest situation too... he left town with no hench and 'bumped into her crew' and tried to escape.. only to discover a really cool way of shuffling her off the map
So the moral is.. dont whine cos your favourite off the shelf speed blitz (designed by someone else) isnt working effortlessly... get out there and tweak, modify and discover for yourself
and if all else fails... heck team with someone.

This thread was not supposed to encompass complaints about HOW farming was done and how it is now less effective. It was opened to highlight how much Guild Wars has changed, how much farming methods of changed, and was to encourage creativity in the months to come.

Money making has taken a huge blow, that is a fact. All methods rendered slower and less effective. Do-able yes, but slower. Being able to make a good amount of money in an acceptable amount of time is KEY to keep interest in this game through further content in the form of more expensive things to access...

In another thread, i was reading someone's post that sums up this point QUITE well...

From this thread:: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10069273
Quote:
Originally Posted by reetkever
Let's see...

-over 800 skills being worth 1K each
-1,5 armor for 8 characters
-max damage weapons for 8 characters PLUS all their heroes (which is about 7 per character).
-needed stuff like ID kits/salvage kits

That alone is the needed stuff, and it is more than 1000K in total.

Putting that aside, I could use:

-max damage weapons with good/perfect stats.
-luxury items such as golds, Vial of Dyes, 15K armor, FoW armor etc.
-titles
-runes
-getting special armor for special things to do (such as Underworld etc.)

Even when buying the needed stuff, you waste more than 1000K. You just don't realize it cause you gain gold at about the same rate you spend it. However, for stuff like runes, perfect weapons, Vial of Dyes etc, the amount of gold needed is increased tremendously.
So we can see that we need loads of cash to play the game normally. That's considering NOT taking part in ANY of the game features past the basics. The second list sums up a lot, not all, but a lot of the features past the game basics.

Can you say CASH COW? I mean the expense of normal game play is astounding yet managable because we can barely stay afloat through normal gameplay cash making... But PAST that, the money required gets RIDICULOUSLY high!!! Understand now?

To sum up: Farming is the only solution to being able to experience MUCH of Guild Wars content within an acceptable amount of time. Since normal gameplay will keep us funded without much extra cash, the only other solution to making cash AFTER beating the chapter once through is to play through it again and again and again and again and again... OR to farm.

With incredible costs for many game features, one wonders how the game designers expected people to purchase such things? Every new update that nerfs some aspect of created farming methods only deludes people's interest in attaining further game features because of the increase of devotion required. This will ultimatly turn many players away as the game ages... Something i hope we don't see much of.

More to think about eh? As i said in the first post, keep hoping! I am sure we can move past this just as we did after the original AoE update.

cheers!
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Old Oct 31, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibex333
ehh.... this might be offtopic, but what's "QFT"???

Aside from that, I agree with the above poster 100%.

QFT = Quoted for truth
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Old Oct 31, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39   #131
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Again forgetting that this is a Game.

The rule is old, as old as the first MUD appeared on our old BBS systems:

"A MUD is not what the implementors want it to be but is what it becomes through its players behaviour. "

If you think you must farm because you need money for the best looking item
or boast about your best ever-hardest to get weapon, I think we are talking
about "greed" here. These should go under the classification of ... "whinning over changes".

Whereas if you consider farming as part of the challenge (as it is the case of
most of the initial farming posters) then no problem, there will shortly be new
ways to farm...

This is a game and it should be enjoyed as a challenge as any game should be.

The only tragic part is still that we are playing this game with kids who are
eventually doing this not for the joy but for the living and there are those of
us who eventually support these b**tards who abuse those kids, by buying their
virtual <stuff> in order to boast in a virtual game. How sad.

Last edited by TheWatcher; Oct 31, 2006 at 02:41 PM // 14:41..
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Old Nov 01, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34   #132
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This thread seperates the cookie cutters and cutter makers. Changes will definitely occur in this game, and just like before. Players who makes the cookie cutting builds still exist, and they still get lots of gold. But how do they do it? They use what we all have, that is their brains. If you do not wish to invest time into learning the game, you will not be able to be rich in the game. Simple as that.

People say they love this game, this game is great, then why is it that you have not learnt the secrets of this game? Is it because its too tough? All i can say is, you probably do not like this game enough.

The cost of playing the game normally is not high at all.
- The cheapest form of max armor is not 1.5k. You can get it from collectors for FREE. Yes, 0 gold.
- Weapons/Shields: crafters makes max weapons. monsters drop max weapons. non-perfect weapons and greens(perfect + cheap) on the markets only go for 5k or lesser. The point is, why do you want a weapon? Skills dmg > Weapon dmg imo.
- Id kits/Salvage ktis: their cost is minimal, and there are many tricks in getting them for free, or maximizing their worth.
- Skills to buy: Unlock them via quests, and for those skills that you can't, buy them. Know what skills are essential to you, you do not need all 100 of em at 1 go. infact, there's many skills that are hardly used.

So, playing the game normally, as you can see, is extremely affordable. Delayed gratification is key to getting rich.

I loved the nerfs everytime anet makes them, why? because it simply removes the cookie cutters for a period of time, untill cutter makers releases new cookie cutter brands into the market. It only makes the game more fun, because seriously, if a game isn't challenging, what satisfaction is there in being good at it? And do take note, Anet did not take away farming. Its a way of them letting the mino tell you, "i'm sick of you using SoJ and me killing myself on you. I'm going to learn and be smarter. Hah! Lets see if you are going to be smarter then a mino."

The point on FoW armor, the reason why its so costly, because its an item for people who are successful (or rich by going on ebay) in this game. When GW first started, people with FoW armor are very rare, and its for accomplished people. But when cookie cutters was invented, you start seeing FoW armor popping up everywhere. It makes FoW armor lose their value. I'm glad that anet is trying to make it back to where it is last time. If you want FoW armor, but you do not want to invest your time (note time, not money) in the game, then you will not be getting it (unless u ebay). Its like saying, "i want to get good grades, but i do not want to study smart".

You can actually relate this to our real life. Imagine the world we live in is in the GW world. Changes occur everyday. Rich people they love to live, and live well. So they spend time learning how to live well. And in the process, they earned lots of gold. Poor people they want to live well, but they do not want to learn. They wait and wait, for the so called "opportunities". They do not change. Well, since ancient times, things that do not adapt, only had 1 ending served to them. Extinction.

And you may wonder, what are those cutter makers doing now? Well, they definitely aren't here wasting their time complaining. They are probably out there, looking or may already have found, their new gold mine.

Last edited by psion; Nov 01, 2006 at 06:48 AM // 06:48..
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Old Nov 01, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52   #133
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I have not seen much problems farming melee creatures since this update. Yes indeed most cookie cutter builds no longer work like they used to. Just look around at the skills and figure something out. Remember that in a lot of cases melee creatures will attack in a group then run away and stand there while you kill 4 of their buddies. This could allow you to go more offense to take the creatures down faster and it works. The age old build I have ran forever to farm melee creatures still works perfectly. I have of course added a few skills to it but it is still effective.

Granted it is not as fast as it used to be but it gets the job done in a respectable amount of time. The good thing is that if you do not spam your skills the mobs will stay in force around you and kill themselves. The build I am refering to is a slightly modified Glads Defence stance build. Glads does not make the monsters run away as of yet, or at least in my numerous times of using it since the update. What will make the monsters run away is if you spam reposte and deadly reposte to much. You have to give them a few seconds in between each other to avoid the AoE run. That is only if you have Glads up at the time.

If you are not in Glads and in some other stance you can spam those two as fast as they recharge without worries. Though for the most part I am inside of Glads Defence the entire time thanks to that lovely skill "On Your Knees!". You just have to put something in your build to knock one of the enemies down but that is not hard at all.

At times I am sort of sick of the constant changing to stuff as it gets old being forced to change the way you play. Though I can understand to an extent what they say they are trying to accomplish. I just think it could have been done it a better way than this. I have no problems coming up with my own builds to farm as that is what I did in the past anyways, it is just frustrating to do all the time.

Besides I am not what you would call a professional farmer as I really do not do it for the money. I have in the past given max dmg highly looked for weapons to people for free. I do not care what they do with it afterwords as it is theirs now. I have always done this for the challange and will continue to do it that way. Yes I have amassed a good amount of money but the main thing that let me get that way is I have never bought any vanity items. I do have a lot of them but I have gotten luck and got them on my own or *gasp* the people I have given stuff to in the past returned the favor by giving me something I was looking for.

You can amass a good amount of money on your own by just playing the game normally you just have to budget your money as has been stated before. Also be kind to others you never know who just might give you that item you have been looking for for free or at least at a really good deal.

Last edited by slimreb; Nov 01, 2006 at 02:57 PM // 14:57..
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Old Nov 01, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45   #134
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A lot of times I opt for the non 15k version of armors just because they look better IMO. A lot of times the 15k version just looks too gaudy and cheezy with too many things going on. And yeah I agree, most of the FOW armor looks horrible... the only one that looks decent is monk, and mesmer... but there are better looking ones out there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sage tank
I don't see why people want those expensive items, first of all, they don't look that good anyway. Fow armor is crap in compare to the look of 15k armors, which offers more details and shape. People should buy armor to make their character look good, not to that "noob status" off your back and start looking down other people.

The 15k druid for ranger is like the greatest thing Anet made.
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Old Nov 01, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53   #135
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I think I posted this in this thread or might be another, who the hell knows there are lots of these kind of threads around since the update.

I love GW and will stay playing it, but one thing to note is that with farming that was kept me playing GW once I was done the chapters (1 and 2) with all my characters.
I would farm and wait for friends and guildies to login to do fow/uw or get bonuses here and there.

I fear that once I finish stuff (other people as well) in Nightfall then the spare time I have will be spent on other games.

I think its in Anet's best interest to keep people playing GW.
If I spend my time playing another game, then who knows maybe I'll like that game and it will consume my time for me to bother playing GW.

My 2 cents.
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Old Nov 01, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38   #136
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Boxterduke I think you just hit it on the head there. I have many different characters that I will take through the game. Only the first two will I do all quests and the likes with. All the others will be just the quests I have to do in order to complete the game. Once that is done and I figure that will not take me very long at all what is left for me to do.

Yes I can continue to tryout different builds to farm with but what is the point now days? ANet will just nerf it again in a couple months then it is time to re-adjust how I play a game I have paid for. I really wish ANet would stop listening to all those whinners about farming. I know my farming has never had an impact on the economy as I do not deal with it. I rarely buy anything from merchants and never buy from other people. So my farming has never done anything.

What gets under your skin after a while is people trying to tell you how this game is supposed to be played. What one person might find as fun someone else might now. I have fun farming things with builds that I come up with on my own. Yes I have used some of the cookie cutter builds before but then I make a build of my own to do the same thing with. I have already begun farming again but it is a good bit slower than before. ANet says that this is a game of skill. Well in my view if I am skilled enough to be able to farm an area solo then I should be able to do so.

Please tell me where my farming anything has effected how someone plays their game. Because I can not see one anywhere. I have given more to people than I have ever taken. As a matter of fact I have helped people in the past to get their 15K armor. I have paid for 6 sets of 15K armor for these people. That includes most of the materials that was needed to craft them with. Why? Because I could afford it and because I like to help.

To all those who whine about well I do not have the money to pay for these things so you should suffer with us. I have worked really hard at this game to gather the gold/weapons/materials/etc. that I have today. Nothing was ever handed to me. Not trying to be mean but it just gets on old listening to the same stuff over and over again.

If people truly believed this game is about a team and not one person then why would they put henchies and now heroes into the game. Those are there for people who do not want to do things with others. So the same applies for people who solo.

Ok having a bad day at work and I think a bit more of my frustration was put into this post. Sorry if this offends someone.
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Old Nov 01, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgeBitch
It's funny that my buddy just created a 55 necro for farming last night and now it's 'nerfed'. How amuzing. like all things this will settle in time and new build will be found. Oh well....
thats what i need with a monk, man i'm pissed.
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Old Nov 01, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sertu
if they can affort a pc and GW and internet then they can affort food. And if they are starving then they better go find a job instead of playing games while there children are starving. None of what u are saying makes sence. See for the price of internet and a pc they could feed there family a year...
Not thier computer or thier game...some work for a company that pays for food and housing..they stay in dorms and sleep on cots...
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Old Nov 02, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ph0bolus
Not thier computer or thier game...some work for a company that pays for food and housing..they stay in dorms and sleep on cots...
He's right. In the PC Gamer issue 154 that featured the GW promo Gray Giant mini, there is an article where they interviewed a gold farming company in China. They get a decent wage, free food, and free housing for sitting at a computer for 10 hours farming gold. But there are also bots out there, programs (hacks) that run a character through a routine to farm gold. It's probably a loop or series of loops with conditional statements tying into the game client.

The new nerf does hurt both kinds of "baddies", but in turn hurts the basic player wanting to farm. The question is, is the the best move to deter gold farmers? In my opinion, no. As shown here, it upsets regular players and making some genuine players quit, while the gold farmers will adapt to the nerf like normal players who farm will. The best option is to ban accounts of gold farmers and accounts using bots. Who are you going to hurt? Not the average player who farms. Not the gold farmers. Their company will just concentrate on farming gold in another game.

Am I upset at the new nerf, a little. Not because it hurts my usual farming tactics, but because I believe ANet is going about this the wrong way, if the nerf is intended to further interfere with gold farmers' actions.

The economy will adjust to the amount of gold floating around. No one will be selling a green scythe for 100k + xx ectos if no one has that much. Though some things in game will be virtually unobtainable, like obsidian armor which was mentioned already. And for those that want the luxury found in the game, and with how fast expansions are produced, they will have to turn to buying gold from gold farmers. In turn risking bans on their accounts as well as fueling the need for gold farmers.

So bascially due to nerfing farming, it either 1. challenges regular farmers and gold farmers alike, to come up with new ways to farm effectively. 2. turn players off of the game and forces them to quit. 3. forces others to purchase virtual gold to keep the luxurious lifestyles they are used to.

Me, I'm with coming up with new ways to farm, but as I said, so will the gold farmers ANet seems so desperately to stop. Perhaps there's a clause in the EULA agreement that says ANet has to refund your money if they ban you, that's why they aren't using that as there #1 tool versus the gold farmers and bots.
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Old Nov 02, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12   #140
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Gares I must say that is very well put. I like they way you explained everything.

One thing I was thinking about if ANet is trying to bleed gold out of the system then this is not the way to do it IMO. The really rich will continue to get richer by saving their money then selling other stuff to fund their future purchases. Either way from saving their money it will go much farther in the cheaper market than it would now.

Well the people who can not get around the new nerfs to farming will continue to pinch for every last bit of gold they can get in order to afford their purchases. Even then some of the higher luxuries will be out of reach for them.

Though gold does seem to be flying around doing the island quests in NF. I have run a paragon and dervish through the island and both have had over 9K by the time they left. That is with picking up every drop and then either salvage it or sell it. Normally just sell it to the merchant.

I know of many people in my old guild that have left the game because of the various nerfs that have happened. All these people wanted nothing more than to play the game the way the wanted to in PvE. They have all said that if these updates were done to balance PvP then make it to were the skills are only nerfed that way in PvP and leave PvE alone.

Over all I like this update a lot and am already over coming the new nerfs while farming but I know of a good amount of people who want some of these new armors and just can not come up with their own builds or do not have the time to come up with them. So I guess will be needing to farm a lot more in order to help some of them out to get those things. I should adopt a new slogan "I farm to pay for you." or at least to the good people I know and my wife.

Last edited by slimreb; Nov 02, 2006 at 02:19 PM // 14:19..
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