Curse

Batou of Nine · Oct 26, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

First of all, we all need to remember that this new update is still highly buggy. Half or more of the changes in Guild Wars are not working correctly or are emitting effects that were not expected/purposed.

This carries over that the AI crazyness may not be permanent. Some people don't seem to even SEE any of the farming vs melee effects, and others don't see any changes in monster behavior to AoE ... And still some do.

For example, in this thread alone there are several people that say Minotaurs are still farmable (some say its just a bit slower), some say Vermin are still farmable, still others report Vermin retreating at low health... Even Spiteful Spirit is being reported as sperratic results such as it now triggering the AoE effect, while others say they STILL use Spiteful Spirit without any troubles...

These varying results should tell us one thing, the monster AI in this update has changed, yet is by NO means finalized. I don't think people should throw up their arms in fustration yet. Wait a few days, maybe a full week after Nightfall release, THEN after additional update changes/fixes have come your decisions and conclusions can be justified.

Here's Hopin' !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spadas Datum

sad batou sad, oh well, since it's gonna be harder to make up cash now, I think it's time you really donate to me, =), guild buddy.

Ya ya ya, So you finally decided to come out of hiding, eh Spardo?
I'll donate to you only if i get ALL your item drops for the next month in Nightfall. LOLZ!!

Cheers!!

Arabian_Night · Oct 26, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

In another attempt to create an egalitarian playing enviroment, a-net has effectively nerfed what is, in my opinion, one of the most fun aspects of the game. By changing melee enemy AI, in order to have them run away, they have effectively killed the possibilites for solo farming much of the game. This is apparantly a response to bot farmers and farming companies, who sell in game money for real money. That is understandable, however, the vast majority of people who farm are not bot farmers or part of one of those companies. They are people like me, who enjoy making money and buying items, which fuels the in game capitalist market of guild wars. Gaining money from farming isn't even against the princibles of keeping the game equal, as max weapons and armor can be purchased at very low prices, and only their appearance changes with added money. For example, I recently earned enough money in game to purchase an obsidian executioners helm for my warrior. I could have bought the same thing for much less money, but with a less attractive skin. Asthetics do not change gameplay, and are therefore not comprimising the equality which guild wars attempts to posses. So a-net just removed part of the gaming experience that so many players have come to enjoy, and I honestly can see it coming back to haunt them. Once you have beaten the campaigns (which I did on both my characters before I began farming) the replay value of the game is reduced. Who wants to play the same thing again? Nobody, and I think that GW will honestly lose members over this change. Not everyone likes the PvP parts of the game. Many don't even play it at all, but are instead working towards that next piece of cool looking armor, or that max sephis axe, or some other item they would like, and after this, their possiblities to get those possessions will deminish drastically. I believe, that with this update, GW has taken their quest for equality one step too farm, and will begin to lose membership over it. I suggest that this change is reversed, and different steps taken against botters and farming companies, in order to ensure a fun, and equal, playing enviroment for all. Sorry about the rant, but I went to do a matuu keep run and was going crazy when I realized what was happening.

lambda the great · Oct 26, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Have any of you guys tried farming without Cyclone axe?

The Prince · Oct 26, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

I was wondering at the intent of the change to the AI. I agree with any update that gives more of a challenge in PvE, but i think the update was a bit far reaching. I dont agree with changing completely the way game economics works due to the sharp drop in farming until new methods are developed or everyone builds a trap ranger. so what if some people have ridiculously expensive crystalline swords and obsidian armor? you get the same stats from weapon upgrades and droks armor anyways. while i understand Anet doesnt want people making money off of their game, this update severly limits the average players ability to make any money, and unless they slash 15k armor prices then whats to stop people from spending 50 bucks to get 1000k gold from a commerical farmer so they can get what they want for their character?

on a different note, ive been hearing some praise in-game about how glad people are that pve is a lot more like pvp. if us pve'ers wanted it to be like pvp, then maybe we would, oh, i dunno, play pvp? i play both but i think the charm of the game was that it offered two distinct play styles and experiences, and combining them into one only serves to limit its appeal.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Oct 26, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

*mesmer sneaks into discussion, looks around*

*laughs heartedly*

Oh dang... no more solo farming. Now you know what we go through.

karunpav · Oct 26, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambda the great

Have any of you guys tried farming without Cyclone axe?

Yeah, I'm with lambda on this one... not all farming builds revolve around Cyclone Axe. Use some originality and you can still farm efficiently. Hell, you don't even have to farm. Try running people to Droknar's, chest running, or normal gameplay. There are tons of ways to make money, farming was just one of the most common types.

Age · Oct 26, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

If you think about the basis of the game, all of pve is an attempt to simulate pvp. monster ai is meant to be the same as human intelligence, and as you progress through the game monsters become harder, until you reach the pinnacle (end-game) and progress into pvp. "Farming" was never an intended part of the game, only an inevidable outcome as many gamers are greedy and feel the need to have more of something than the average joe, regardless of how meaningless that something may be.

One or two people were never supposed to simply equip a certain skillbar which makes them invincible to any monsters in a given area, it's simply not what Guild Wars is about. Fortunately for all the whiners, there will be people out there creating new builds to farm even more useless gold (now that pvp creation is equal or better than anything you can get in pve, gold is really quite useless.) Soon enough you'll be able to come on this very forum and copy another skillset that with a very minute bit of skill will allow you to kill many high-level enemies in a short time. You will then repeat this process until your eyes bleed, because to you, change is bad. Having 100% control of the outcome is necessary for some people, which is understandable but not acceptable.

The way I see it there are two rational reasons that people want to stay in pve (and not progress to pvp.) First (and most common I think) people are very lazy, and don't want to actually make the effort to become skilled. They want to bash infinitely less intelligent things simply because they can and it fills their head with epeen. They're the ones that are upset at this nerf, since all that happened is that the monsters became smarter. Second, and much more rare, there are the people that want to avoid the rage and stupidity that human players inevidably bring to the game. This one is understandable, however this update does nothing but help those players. With smarter AI, pve-specific players can still develope a nuance of skill while completely avoiding all human contact (enter: "heroes".)

So really, if you think about it... This update could very well be the best thing to ever happen to Guild Wars, at least for the very short time before people learn how to exploit AI yet again.

Less Crying Is Key, kThx.

It would never get that way sno that PvE just became more like PvP as most PvEer aren't use to running after mobs mostly just holding aggro.The end of what just jumping into pvp with an inferior char to those of a pvp made char.It is really to late for those to jump in as most pvp ladder guild are already dominate pvp so what is really left for pvers to do when beaten the game.my first officer hasn't logged in over a week becuase he can't find anything to do.I would say it is to late to guilds like SMS and Rare to even think of being PvP guilds trying to make I on the ladder.The Guru to me as always been a Farming and PvE board.

To Arcanis you could alway make a Mes/Mo up and IW it or go Shiroken farming.

Mr.H.Mishima · Oct 27, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambda the great

Have any of you guys tried farming without Cyclone axe?

What? You can farm without being a Cyclone Whammo? Who knew!!

Ripostes FTW

RazielFirestorm · Oct 27, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Personally, i like this update cause i can still farm uw by myself, and ecto prices are going up for now so more money for me

can you guys see a loop in what is happening in this game?
1)people find a way to make money real easy, real fast
2)someone copys this into a forum or something, and more people start to use the farming build
3)after a while, Anet will change this so the farming build doesnt work anymore
4)people will complain for about 3 weeks
5)back to square one - people find a new way to farm

It happened with the first AoE change: I myself at the time was even like 'omg wtf eles are broken! now what? useless character omg!!!1111!1!'
what happened? found out a new way to use aoe, without having to pump out the smaller constant damage, and changed to using the big damage.

Even with PvP this happened: when HA was changed to 6v6, alot of people were quite annoyed with the change, and were saying there was no creativity anymore ect... 3 weeks later, no ones left complaining and everyone is getting on with the game, working out new builds and ways to do HA.

And now the exact same thing is gonna happen with this second AoE change.
You know it will, it happened twice before, its going to happen again. for now, those of you who do still know how to farm the big numbers, make money while you can

LuckyGiant · Oct 27, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

omg, none of the chinese farmers are bots.. they are all human! they just can't understand what you are saying. and they are not so good a gamer, what do you expect for 1 cent per hour labor? they can only repeat the same move again and again like the workers working with assembly line...

Please visit granite citadel int 1 and tell me they arent bots

(though they might not be there anymore, since the update)

As the above poster mentioned, its a never ending circle

New farming spots will open up and people will simple change and adapt. But with the above in mind players farm for something to do (attaining your ideal armor, weapons, farming for fun, farming for challenge, hording gold etc) when they have completed the game, take this away from them and there is little to hold there interest. Maybe we should start a poll "whats your goal in PvE" post, results might be interesting ^^

In response to sno: Amity and Truth said it very nicely what I was going to say about your arrogant post, people are unique and play the game for different reasons, the game doesnt revolve around what individuals want.

Edited: reordered.

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Oct 27, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

That is overreacting, I love the update, templates, new salvage option, more challenges, I love it all.

And GW is not about soloing, if you enjoy soloing more than teamwork stuff, online games are not for you.

If you want FoW armor so badly, why don't you just go in a full team and fight for it, like a man!

I'm glad the nerfed those 55 monk, I'm just sad they didn't do it sooner.

Yours truely... Shuuda!

gg

Mesmer in Need · Oct 27, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

Looks like fow solo is pretty much all we can still do atm. That and (according to an above poster) VwK farming.

...rt/me ftw?

55 ids farming?

Gururian · Oct 27, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

My 55 is still very very much alive. Caster AI still has its similarities to Napoleon Dynamite. Cheers to anet for a great update!

Joshgt2 · Oct 27, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

i See my starburster coming into more effect with killing mobs of melee guys.

Riotgear · Oct 27, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

*mesmer sneaks into discussion, looks around*

*laughs heartedly*

Oh dang... no more solo farming. Now you know what we go through.

Someone missed the money train when it passed through Harvest Temple.

Yarrick · Oct 27, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

There are going to be more ways to farm. W8 till u try out the Dervish and the Paragon. Old professions will get new skills as well. Farming is not dead, just asleep atm. Anet, keep up the good work.

Jacxxmaster · Oct 27, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

City of Heroes/City of Villains did the exact same thing...I'm going to need to remember to stop buying things from anyone associated with ncsoft.

Not NCsoft; it's Anet ftl... *shakes fist at Anet*

Phoenix Ex · Oct 27, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Ya ya w/e, there will be new ways to farm blah blah. I'll reserve judgement until someone finds a farming build that can earn 1k/min and not 2k/15-20min.

Farming speed has now nearly quadrupled in time need. I say now its time for skill cost reduction to 1/4, obsidian armor should cost 1/4 the price, 15k also.

rockon2888 · Oct 27, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Well maybe someone has already mentioned this before, but with this new current update, I found out a rather interesting fact about farming.

No matter how much AoE you pummel out, there will ALWAYS be 3 monsters attacking you. If there are only 3 monsters in total, they behave as the previous update AoE run and run back.

Basicly you farm and you kill them 3x at a time

sakura75 · Oct 27, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

*mesmer sneaks into discussion, looks around*

*laughs heartedly*

Oh dang... no more solo farming. Now you know what we go through.

You can farm pretty much anything with a mesmer. Soloing Riverside, Sanctum Cay mission, Powerlevelling, Trolls, Vermins, Undergrowth, Shirokens, etc...
Even possible to do Droknar's run.

After update Shiroken farming is a little bit more difficult but not impossible.

And please don't complain about new update... there will be new farming build coming up soon with the Dervish and Paragon

I already have a nice Rit/D solo farming build in mind, can't wait to test it when NF is coming out