Curse

Jumnious · Oct 19, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

... are freaking amazing. The sin class will be amazing...

I found the information on GW Wiki:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Elite_skills_list

Just scroll down to the very bottom...

Assault Enchantments will be so awesome for PvP; for example in Fort Aspenwood against Prot. Monks through every life bonding enchantment they have on NPCs guarding the gates. =D

Fox's Promise will guarantee ( my bad on spelling ) will make every deadly combo amazing. My spike-dealing combo has defeated every build and with this elite, I will never have to worry about missing a beat.

Shattering Assault... ow! enough said... =D

Golden Jaw Strike will be an annoyance to any caster. =D

Deadly Arts attribute seems to be more appealing now with the 2 new elites; Mark of Insecurity & Shadow Prison.

Hidden Caltrops could do some horrible damage with a +63 crippling attack to another attack.

The Non-Attribute Elites seem almost pointless, Shadow Meld is an elite which would be better known as Recall. A waste of an elite...

however, Shameful Waste could be helpful to a degree, to help take down kiters, amber-runners, and a good interrupt use.

In conclusion, I cannot wait to give my sin some more buff in Nightfall... ^_^

lord_shar · Oct 19, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Black Spider Strike is the skill my assassin is eagerly awaiting. Finally, a hexed target offhand that has a decent recharge time. Best of all, it doesn't consume the elite slot.

Shuuda · Oct 19, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Fox's promise = bye bye stance losers

SAPhoenix · Oct 19, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Fox's promise is a cool new elite. Using it with either Signet of Malice or Plague Touch to remove Blind (which is the only thing that could really screw you over apart from enchant stripping) would make you practically unstoppable. This will really make the sin a formidable adversary. They're a force to be reckoned with currently, but this will really make them scary. Watch the Guardian monks and Whirling Defense rangers/Distortion mesmers complain about this one. *lol*

Touchy players are gonna regret the day they face off against a Fox's Promise sin ^^

Yanman.be · Oct 19, 2006, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Or price of failure or spirit of failure.

l Artemis Entreri l · Oct 19, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

i think shattering assaults and assault enchantments are gonna hurt u against dervishes so a lil tip is...when dervishes come, dont remove enchantments

y?b/c ull prolly get smacked w/ quite a few conditions

SAPhoenix · Oct 19, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Or price of failure or spirit of failure.

Well you could always go Fox's Promise, Signet of Malice, Hex Breaker. Then you're more or less covered.

Pick Me · Oct 19, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Well you could always go Fox's Promise, Signet of Malice, Hex Breaker. Then you're more or less covered.

Except for Blur Vision (casted on the ally next to you), Hex Breaker, removes.... Parasitic Bond

, then Reckless Haste, Price of Failure, Spiteful Spirit and then Parasitic Bond again. Nasty.

Or can we just say, stance + shatter enchantment.

Legendary Battousai · Oct 20, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

still, shock, falling, twisting, aod will be the most dominant assassin build, none of these elites add to the table any high, consistant, and effecient damage sources that could possibly replace AoD as an elite or remove shock as a knockdown.

dargon · Oct 20, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Heh, shock assassin is nice, but when you start hitting the larger groups, it becomes rather painful having to wait for the exhaustion to go away.

SAPhoenix · Oct 20, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Except for Blur Vision (casted on the ally next to you), Hex Breaker, removes.... Parasitic Bond

, then Reckless Haste, Price of Failure, Spiteful Spirit and then Parasitic Bond again. Nasty.

Or can we just say, stance + shatter enchantment.

Well this could go on forever, could have a monk pop Spellbreaker on you but I digress ^^

Good thing this is a team game

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Battousai

still, shock, falling, twisting, aod will be the most dominant assassin build, none of these elites add to the table any high, consistant, and effecient damage sources that could possibly replace AoD as an elite or remove shock as a knockdown.

Hmmm, that's debatable. Firstly, I don't see why all sin elites should necessarily be damage-dealing elites for them to be taken seriously (AoD sure as heck isn't a damage-dealing elite). Secondly, elites like Fox's Promise with the right backup (as I mentioned above, a monk that casts Spellbreaker on you) will be very powerful in PvP. The Shock build can also screw you over (one energy pip less while using AoD and exhaustion while using Shock is something you really don't want on a sin). Plus, if you KD someone who already has an evasive stance active, or if you're blinded after/just before Shock connects, you can forget about completing your combo. I don't see the Shock build as dominant. I see it as overused. Using a "niche" build only provides more opportunities for it to be countered.

Now take something like Fox's Promise. A monk covers you with Spellbreaker, you're packing Plague Touch/Signet of Malice and Fox's Promise. You're covered if you get conditioned, hexed, etc and stances won't be a problem for you. I consider that to be something that rivals the "superiority" of AoD.

I think the new elites will provide a welcome (and much needed) change from the usual AoD builds.

Kaasschaaf · Oct 22, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

one thing I still don't get about shattering assault is if the extra damage is doubled since it is a double strike or simply stays as it is. if it is doubled this skill would be Really brutal. it's not only good against dervishes, considering I have 1 enchantment skill for nearly any of my characters. this skills is gonna be a real pain in the ass.

fox's promise will most likely be tweaked for a longer cooldown or higher manacost very soon, considering it has if you ask me a really to big difference between the efficiency of current unblockables and itself. and so might the tweakers think. it would still be quite broken though, even with higher recharge.

Spura · Oct 23, 2006, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Now take something like Fox's Promise. A monk covers you with Spellbreaker,

I stopped reading there. That sentence is full of lose.

SAPhoenix · Oct 23, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Just like your post is devoid of an intelligent response.

Please, do explain to me why it is full of "lose", as you put it.

TadaceAce · Oct 23, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaasschaaf

one thing I still don't get about shattering assault is if the extra damage is doubled since it is a double strike or simply stays as it is. if it is doubled this skill would be Really brutal.

It will double... just like every other attack.. basically if somebody is enchanted and it isn't guardian or prot spirit, trouble.

Spura · Oct 23, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Just like your post is devoid of an intelligent response.

Please, do explain to me why it is full of "lose", as you put it.

Notice how nobody uses spellbreaker, except on ghostly? You want to sacrifise BL or energy management elite on monk so your assassin gets 1 or 2 paltry combos off without getting blinded? Notice how nobody uses Spell Breaker to keep blinding flash off warriors for spikes? 15 energy 45 sec FTL? Why not have your mesmer use non-elite interrupt to disrupt blinding flash during spike? Why did I have to type this out?

Hybrid Theory · Oct 23, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

whats a better monk killer assasin or dervish?

SAPhoenix · Oct 23, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Notice how nobody uses spellbreaker, except on ghostly? You want to sacrifise BL or energy management elite on monk so your assassin gets 1 or 2 paltry combos off without getting blinded? Notice how nobody uses Spell Breaker to keep blinding flash off warriors for spikes? 15 energy 45 sec FTL? Why not have your mesmer use non-elite interrupt to disrupt blinding flash during spike? Why did I have to type this out?

Why the heck would you want to use Spell Breaker on warriors anyway (or for the purposes of preventing Blinding Flash? WTH?). And where the heck did I make mention of that? The purpose of it is to ensure that Fox's promise doesn't get stripped while you're going for a spike. Attempts to do so costs the offense energy, nothing wrong with that.

Energy management eh. The monk puts Spell Breaker on a sin. If the sin gets blinded, he can remove it (monk doesn't have to). He can't be hexed. (monk didn't have to remove it) Offensive spells do squat (Did he even need to be healed yet?). And the monk only put one enchantment on him, an enchant that very few ppl (if any) actually pack a counter to.

Within that period, the sin could have spiked 2 targets without even having to break a sweat, while the opposition either chooses to ignore him and focus on other targets (because they can't target him with offensive spells anyway) or try in vain to strip his enchant, wasting energy in the process. While the opposition is wasting energy trying to kill the sin, their casters are fair game.

So to answer your question, if a sin on the team is practically guaranteed a kill or 2 without having to concern himself with being shutdown, then yeah, I'd sacrifice the energy management. Would you rather waste energy trying to keep a sin spiker hex/condition free on your team or would you rather pop one enchant on him and let him go about his business? And, from what I understand, most teams run with 2 monks at least, not just 1. It's almost as though you are basing your argument on a "single-monk" scenario.

Blinding Flash isn't the only counter to be faced as a sin. You make it seem as though its the only thing that can stop a sin in his tracks. Wrong. Evasive stances and enchants. Hexes. Snares. All of which can be countered/bypassed with condition removal (on the sin), Fox's promise and Spell Breaker. Even warriors are powerless against stance users as they can't use skills like Wild Blow unless they're prepared to part with their adrenal spike. A sin with Fox's promise won't have those problems. Look at the bigger picture instead of using one reference. All I see in your post is Blinding Flash this, Blinding Flash that.

I've come across teams in HA using Spell Breaker on their sins, and trust me, there's nothing crappy about it. If the team build supports the skills used, and knows how, and when to employ said skills, then the team benefits. Saying a particular "skill" or "spell" guarantees a loss in GW is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. It's about HOW skills are used, not about "oh, my skill is more leet than yours, so automatically I own you!".

I'm also starting to wonder why you bothered to type out your post.

Spura · Oct 23, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Why the heck would you want to use Spell Breaker on warriors anyway (or for the purposes of preventing Blinding Flash? WTH?). And where the heck did I make mention of that? The purpose of it is to ensure that Fox's promise doesn't get stripped while you're going for a spike. Attempts to do so costs the offense energy, nothing wrong with that.

I assumed you wanted to keep blinding flash of the assassin because Fox's promise ends on miss. If it was to stop enchant strips it is basically the same(preventing Fox's Promise to end), and same arguments apply. Also ever heard of cover enchants?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Energy management eh. The monk puts Spell Breaker on a sin. If the sin gets blinded, he can remove it (monk doesn't have to). He can't be hexed. (monk didn't have to remove it) Offensive spells do squat (Did he even need to be healed yet?).

Yes he did.

- It is called warriors and ranger beating the crap out of him.
- Also assassin isn't the only target on the team. Casters will attack other characters on the team.
- Spell Breaker has downtime.
- After 1 or 2 spells on spellbreaker casters will just pick other targets.

Congrats, you migitated 5% of other team's damage for the price of energy management on a monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Within that period, the sin could have spiked 2 targets without even having to break a sweat, while the opposition either chooses to ignore him and focus on other targets (because they can't target him with offensive spells anyway) or try in vain to strip his enchant, wasting energy in the process. While the opposition is wasting energy trying to kill the sin, their casters are fair game.

Keep up your science fiction stories. Even without Fox's Promise and Spell Breaker, assassins often spike unopposed by blind or block/evade and still you don't see people dropping left and right. Enemy monks can still heal your assassin spike. Enemy players can still blackout, ranger interrupt, knockdown, spike with warriors your assassin, blind or cripple with traps. Any sane opponent won't spend too much time trying to cast spells on assassin, and they can easily attack other characters on your team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

So to answer your question, if a sin on the team is practically guaranteed a kill or 2 without having to concern himself with being shutdown, then yeah, I'd sacrifice the energy management.

How is making attack unopposed a guaranteed kill? Ever heard of healing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Would you rather waste energy trying to keep a sin spiker hex/condition free on your team or would you rather pop one enchant on him and let him go about his business? And, from what I understand, most teams run with 2 monks at least, not just 1. It's almost as though you are basing your argument on a "single-monk" scenario.

Quick, call the IQ! Using Expel hexes and inspired hex when they could just own hexes with Spell Breaker, what nubs!

You just need to clear him before each spike. Conditions will still get applied by attackers even with Spellbreaker. Also making sin spell immune does nothing for your energy management, those hexers will, once again, blow that energy on your other team members(also your other attackers, unless the sin is your only attacker, in which case gg), and you will need to spend energy on hex and condition removal anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

Even warriors are powerless against stance users as they can't use skills like Wild Blow unless they're prepared to part with their adrenal spike. A sin with Fox's promise won't have those problems. Look at the bigger picture instead of using one reference. All I see in your post is Blinding Flash this, Blinding Flash that.

1. There are non-adrenaline warrior spikes
2. Warriors can use Way of the Fox before spiking stance users.
3. Wild blow is fine, other warrior can assist.
4. There are always other people to beat up than just stance users

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

I've come across teams in HA using Spell Breaker on their sins,

They were taking it for ghostly in HoH anyway so they might as well use it on other things too, when it is not needed on ghostly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAPhoenix

skills used, and knows how, and when to employ said skills,

Ah, the age old, "every skill is cool, you just ain't using them right". No, some skills are inferior to other options and some are good for 1 or 2 purposes in the whole game, Spell Breaker is one of them. If you are running it for ghostly, fine, put it on your assassin or monk or whoever you like, just don't pretend like it is some uber combo. A team with 1 spellbreaker and 1 normal monk is disadvantaged compared to a team with 2 normal monks with energy management or BL no matter how you slice it.

SAPhoenix · Oct 23, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

I assumed you wanted to keep blinding flash of the assassin because Fox's promise ends on miss.

Hence the condition removal. You been paying attention?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

If it was to stop enchant strips it is basically the same(preventing Fox's Promise to end), and same arguments apply. Also ever heard of cover enchants?

What the heck is Spell Breaker there for? So what, you're trying to tell me that Spell Breaker doesn't serve as a cover enchant then? Besides, other enchants are far more susceptible to removal than Spell Breaker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

It is called warriors and ranger beating the crap out of him.

Makes me wonder what the heck the rest of my team is there for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Also assassin isn't the only target on the team. Casters will attack other characters on the team.

True. That little fact can really count in the sin's favour. If he isn't public enemy no.1, it makes him that much more deadly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Spell Breaker has downtime.

So do a lot of other skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

After 1 or 2 spells on spellbreaker casters will just pick other targets.

If they do that, they'll only open themselves up to a world of hurt. Which is exactly what I would count on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Keep up your science fiction stories. Even without Fox's Promise and Spell Breaker, assassins often spike unopposed by blind or block/evade and still you don't see people dropping left and right.

I wouldn't expect anything less. However, being able to remove conditions and prevent offensive spells clearly gives you more of an advantage over a regular sin with a decent spike but heavy reliance on a monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Enemy monks can still heal your assassin spike. Enemy players can still blackout, ranger interrupt, knockdown, spike with warriors your assassin, blind or cripple with traps. Any sane opponent won't spend too much time trying to cast spells on assassin, and they can easily attack other characters on your team.

Again, if they aren't casting spells on the sin, it's an advantage, not a disadvantage. The minute the focus shifts from the sin to someone else, the sin can take advantage of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

How is making attack unopposed a guaranteed kill? Ever heard of healing?

Well I reckon being able to attack unopposed as opposed to attacking while a target is using a stance, blinding you, hexing you, etc far increases your chances of scoring a kill. Also, I said it was practically guaranteed, not definitely guaranteed. Have you ever heard of Diversion? Can really screw monks over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

You just need to clear him before each spike. Conditions will still get applied by attackers even with Spellbreaker. Also making sin spell immune does nothing for your energy management, those hexers will, once again, blow that energy on your other team members(also your other attackers, unless the sin is your only attacker, in which case gg), and you will need to spend energy on hex and condition removal anyway.

Well if they're blowing their energy on my team members after having blown it on me, they're setting themselves up for a fall. And again, we aren't talking about one monk supporting an entire team on his own. For every member of my team that is targetted, that is one less threat to me. Which gives me more of an opportunity to strike while they're focused on someone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

There are non-adrenaline warrior spikes

Which can be countered. And they are far more susceptible to conditions/hexes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Warriors can use Way of the Fox before spiking stance users.

And get it stripped before they even land a single hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Wild blow is fine, other warrior can assist.

Yeah, have them go crazy wasting their attacks on someone with a stance active.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

There are always other people to beat up than just stance users

Yep, then those stance users can capitalize on it when they're no longer under pressure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

They were taking it for ghostly in HoH anyway so they might as well use it on other things too, when it is not needed on ghostly.

You seem to be contradicting yourself there. First you say Spell Breaker is a no no except on ghostly, now you say they "might as well" use it on whoever they want if it isn't being used on ghosty. Well heck, then they might as well use it as I suggested!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Ah, the age old, "every skill is cool, you just ain't using them right". No, some skills are inferior to other options and some are good for 1 or 2 purposes in the whole game, Spell Breaker is one of them. If you are running it for ghostly, fine, put it on your assassin or monk or whoever you like, just don't pretend like it is some uber combo. A team with 1 spellbreaker and 1 normal monk is disadvantaged compared to a team with 2 normal monks with energy management or BL no matter how you slice it.

Yep, some skills are inferior to other options. But ultimately, it comes down to the build run by the team, doesn't it? They will use a set of skills for each member on the team to suit the team build, not so? What doesn't work for one team build might work well for another.

Your comment on having 1 Spell Breaker monk and 1 normal monk reminds me of the guy that posted the "Flourish" sin build at gwonline. One of his monks had Smiting Prayers all the way up and was using Strength of Honor on him to do vicious spikes on just about anything (warriors included). Needless to say, they were taking on high ranked teams and winning. Those teams were obviously comprised of the "default" 2 monks, but his team still prevailed against several of them.

So if you're going to believe that a team having 2 normal monks automatically makes that team superior, you're dead wrong.