Curse

olly123 · Nov 16, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

I know its not a build, but if i post it else where not all the monk of this community wound look there. So here it is

What do you think of this new Hero system

I’m At the TOA palace of NF (sorry don’t know name of it), and so far in every mission i have done i am the only no AL monk, because i get invited into a party and instead of looking for more monks they add a hero. ok heroes are better than henchmen, but only just, the only difference is you control where to move them and there moves, but to use them properly you need to take control of him fully, meaning your char is unused and useless,

so what i have been finding is its like taking a henchmen ( or random healing generator) and I’m the only monk whose really healing the team, all the heroes do is use the moves in the wrong order, so like orison when they have 25%hp and WoH with 85%hp. and because I’m not the worlds best monk i run into energy problems. and them dam pugs just yell at me to rez them the moment they go down, witch i cant because i need my energy to heal, then the hero resurrects and uses rebirth so he’s out of energy and ouch I’m back to the only heal.

so there’s my problems with the new hero system, what’s your views?

Age · Nov 17, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I am going to be honest here I don't like them as a Monk player it will be harder to get into groups and healing or protecting a heros isn't the same as if it wasn't a real player.I would prefer them to be limited only on use of quests not missions which were designed for ppl playing with ppl for cooperative play.I would tend to think that some or x number players out there won't trust human Monk to keep them alive.It would be nice if you could only take 1 heros only on missions and quests.They aren't a replacement for the real thing and that is so with henchies.

arcady · Nov 17, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

has something changed about Heroes recently?

I like it. I like that it removes the excuses of negative community minded monks, like the ones who charge. Don't have to put up with them anymore.

Does it mean my own monk will have a harder time PUGing? Perhaps... But I can live with that if over time this change weeds out the hostile-monk players and things get to being friendly.

Give people options, and competition will force things to get better.

xxSilhouette · Nov 17, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

My thoughts is that Heros and pugs really don't and shouldn't go together IMO. I think if someone is starting a PUG, it should be strictly a PUG. I have been using my heros so far, and they all seem to do very well, but real monks are still 10 times better.

Although the henchie monks were never good, and heros are much better, I understand what you mean. I know with my monk in factions, a lot of times people would just grab a henchman and go, and then I would get yelled at like no other if i ran out of energy. Its always best to have two real monks I think.

But if nothing else, I would choose the hero over the henchies.

maienGerl · Nov 17, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by olly123

I know its not a build, but if i post it else where not all the monk of this community wound look there. So here it is

What do you think of this new Hero system

I’m At the TOA palace of NF (sorry don’t know name of it), and so far in every mission i have done i am the only no AL monk, because i get invited into a party and instead of looking for more monks they add a hero. ok heroes are better than henchmen, but only just, the only difference is you control where to move them and there moves, but to use them properly you need to take control of him fully, meaning your char is unused and useless,

so what i have been finding is its like taking a henchmen ( or random healing generator) and I’m the only monk whose really healing the team, all the heroes do is use the moves in the wrong order, so like orison when they have 25%hp and WoH with 85%hp. and because I’m not the worlds best monk i run into energy problems. and them dam pugs just yell at me to rez them the moment they go down, witch i cant because i need my energy to heal, then the hero resurrects and uses rebirth so he’s out of energy and ouch I’m back to the only heal.

so there’s my problems with the new hero system, what’s your views?

Shift Click Disables Rez - Do it.

Hero Monks are alot better, for the simple reason you can equip them a proper build even the computer AI can deal with..

XvArchonvX · Nov 17, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

For all practical purposes, monk heroes are generally fine for PvE, even though they are still pretty inefficient. They are excellent at interupting, but they still have terrible energy management and tend to spam high cost spells to overheal allies that barely take damage. The next time you go with a prot hero, notice how often they spam Prot Spirit whenever you take a tiny amount of damage. I've had a few times where I was standing around semi-afk with a vamp weapon out and the hero put prot spirit on me instead of using Sig of Devotion.

To me the bottom line is that heroes are reliable since you are mostly in charge of them, but still very inneficient.

Buce · Nov 17, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Strategically put no rez on monks and use less skill in the bar will make heroes monks perform better. I usually put rez on mesmer.

pingu666 · Nov 17, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

bit OT, but i was surprised how good the necro hero was at being a MM

i think its good/decent human monk >hero > henchie

my hero henchies run very nearly the same as my monk (not using my monk in nightfall yet)

they still have alot of the problems of henchies tho, like trying to tank, doing stupid resing...

Rera · Nov 17, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

I like heroes. Less random invites and PMs in mission towns = ftw.

CPU monks are good for the same reason CPU rangers and mesmers are good - reaction speed. They can save spikes with WoH that the average PuG couldn't save with a +fastcast infuse.

The key point with heroes is understanding how they work. Once you figure out the AI triggers for their skill usage, you can start compiling hero-specific builds that work well. Also, remember to disable skills like hardres.

If you're afraid of being put in a situation where you are the only real monk in a mixed PuG/hero group, have the leader ping the monk's bar, or demand another real monk. You should always make sure the group is set up in a reasonable way before you do anything with them.

arcady · Nov 17, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Seems to me like the best mix would be a Hero and a human monk. Get the reaction speed out the Hero, and the discretion out of the human.

And I agree on the potency of Olias as a minion master, but he is a bit aggro happy. I've even seen him wander away from me across to the other side of the compass and send his minions after targets I nor any of the henchies and heroes with me had ever gone anywhere near...

gogoblender · Nov 17, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

I like the new heroes
And, like Rera mentionned above, its just about getting to known when certain types of behaviour are triggered.
My suggestion?
Always keep the hero screens open. This is a great way to see what the heroes are doing, what they're doing it with and what they react to. It's easy to treat heroes like henchies and that would be a big mistake. Seeing how these guys use energy and seeing how they cast and how they try to do "different" stuff with how you've set em up is a challenge. And yeah...there can be some energy problems if you don't get it together. But keep at it and find cool ways to get these monks goin. Heh, I"ve just spent about two days now studying how two monks work together as a team,what works well for them and if I really have to use a prot half or not.
So far, two monks splitting Divine and Healing for skill choices is giving me some wicked heals. We're talkin blue heal balloons flying everywhere and a group of four able to handle a good part of the beiginning,at least, of pve Nightfall. With only four in the team, the drops are awesome and working on the team is a decent challenge.
Course, Boon is a huge part of making this happen. Until I figgered stuff out, I was using Essence bond to fuel the energy with Divine spirit to lessen the amount of energy I had to use for the heals.
I was just having the two monks spam everything and anything that costs only five e...and the results were satisfying.
Course...things got REALLY fun when I did a bit of research (lol, i'm new at GW

) and got intrigued by having a mesmer as secondary.
Bingo
Channeling rocks
And having two monks using channeling at the same time, with Boon and divine spirit has my energy runnin nice and smoothly now.
With my main toon as a nice warrior/mesmer and my other choice of the four using Koss...NIght fall is lookin...lol, easy maybe?
:P
Builds now have to be conceived of differently from before. Whereas a "build" was just one toon...it's now much more than that now.
A build in pve has the power to improve your game by bringing balancing to your team.
MOre to work with , more to balance and certainly more things to get angry at :P
Anyone who thinks that simply balancing one toon is enough will probably be frustrated.
Heroe's aren't impossible
just more challenging

gogo

olly123 · Nov 17, 2006, 05:20 PM // 17:20

cheers for your ideas, but other things i cant find is when the pug leader inssits on taking his monk, and adds, Helap party, breeze and heal other

. but with up2 three hero tags up there seems very little space for the rest of the screen.

the_jos · Nov 17, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

I have a somewhat mixed feeling on hero monks.
For quests, they are great. Also for missions, but I prefer to run those with real players.

The problem is, like with monks in general, that you never know what skills they have.
I run my monk heroes with 5e and at the most one or two 10e spells and in passive mode, so energy is most of the time no problem.
But I have encountered the first Mo/E monk hero that was happily throwing fire spells at the enemy.

I never had to much problem with the heroes spamming the wrong spells, but I leave the windows closed and let the AI handle all.

One big advantage of heroes is that they stay if their owner leaves/dc's.
So I do understand that people like to run the hero/human combination.
But, if all people would take their self heals serious, most missions don't even need two monks.

gogoblender · Nov 17, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

heh, yeah...havin those three windows open fer the heroes is a tight squeeze. You get used to it pretty fast though and for seeing how to improve yer hero's contribution to your party it's an excellent tool

gogo

Rera · Nov 17, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Again, if you insist on PuGing I strongly recommend that you have your other party members ping out their skillbars, especially if someone insists on taking a hero. If you see healing breeze and mending on the hero monk, ask them to change it. If they refuse, leave the group - you're probably not going to get anywhere with them anyway.

Age · Nov 17, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Again, if you insist on PuGing I strongly recommend that you have your other party members ping out their skillbars, especially if someone insists on taking a hero. If you see healing breeze and mending on the hero monk, ask them to change it. If they refuse, leave the group - you're probably not going to get anywhere with them anyway.

What is wrong with mending on your bar if you are healing Monk it is no different than being a bonder sure watchfull spirit is better though.

Rera · Nov 18, 2006, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Your response is something I would have expected from the warrior forum. I'm saddened to know that people in the monk forum think the same way.

Fine, there's nothing wrong with mending. Use it as much as you want. It is the best skill in the game. What's 1 piddly pip of energy and one measly skill slot compared to a whopping 4 pips of regen? OMG what was I thinking.

I just don't care anymore, jesus christ.