Curse

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

I'm considering running it in a triple-dom mes setup as a form of spike/pressure, along with wastrel's demise.

Dragannia · Sep 25, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Honestly I dislike Spiritual Pain. Mesmers are not supposed to do direct damage in threatening amounts. Spiritual Pain is used for damage, and damage only. Mesmer skills should be used for other things; Unnatural Signet is used for damage too, but it's too unwieldy to be used for spikes. Shatter Enchant only works if there's an enchantment. E-Surge and E-Burn only do damage if the enemy has energy, and it is more of a use pressuring than spiking.

I just don't like this newer, 'cruder' image one skill gives.

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Unnatural Signet is used for damage too, but it's too unwieldy to be used for spikes.

Unnatural is incredible for spikes, it's a quick 70+ damage that doubles as spirit removal.

I've used everything in Drag's post for spiking before, and Spiritual is one of the most effective as it's 100~ damage for 10 energy, 1s cast, unconditional. It won't fit in every skillbar (a single mesmer in a team might not bring it, from skillbar constrictions) but with 2-3 mesmers in a team I would take it immediately.

Dragannia · Sep 25, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Unnatural is incredible for spikes, it's a quick 70+ damage that doubles as spirit removal.

I've used everything in Drag's post for spiking before, and Spiritual is one of the most effective as it's 100~ damage for 10 energy, 1s cast, unconditional. It won't fit in every skillbar (a single mesmer in a team might not bring it, from skillbar constrictions) but with 2-3 mesmers in a team I would take it immediately.

Unnatural is okay, but it has too big of a recharge. And Mesmers are usually pressed for their skill slots anyway. I always try to fit one E-Management, two pressure (eg Diversion, Energy Burn), the Elite (usually Expel for me), a utility skill (such as Draw Conditions) or a supplementary skill (for example, Gale, Blackout) and a res, as well as Shatter Enchantment. I've used Unnatural, but I much prefer just E-Burn and Shatter, and usually Distortion.

The problem I have with Spiritual is that it's too effective. It's simple, direct, uncomplicated damage. It has a good condition, but the point remains that it's simply much too crude for Mesmers to use, and lacks the finesse that Mesmers have.

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 11:13 AM // 11:13

'Killing with the point lacks artistry, but don't let that hold your hand when the opening presents itself'.

(Cookie for anyone who knows where that's from).

Dragannia · Sep 25, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Dune. Cookie please.

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 11:16 AM // 11:16

You didn't cite who said it. No cookie.

Dragannia · Sep 25, 2006, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You didn't cite who said it. No cookie.

But..but...Google didn't tell me who said it...

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

You're supposed to know the line itself, not just Google it! You fail!

So yeah... SP is nice, on a more supportish dom mesmer (where usually unnatural would be used).

Dragannia · Sep 25, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You're supposed to know the line itself, not just Google it! You fail!

I know! I tried to cheat! It Backfired, and my Ignorance Wracks my Mind. I hope you won't Mistrust me after this Shame and feel some Sympathetic...ness for me.

TeeGee · Sep 25, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

You didn't cite who said it. No cookie

.

Gurney Halek to Paul?

Am I right? I have no time to browse the book now. I'm shooting from memory...

Avarre · Sep 25, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Close, but it was Idaho

A 'flashbacked' quote while fighting Jamis.

TeeGee · Sep 25, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Close, but it was Idaho

Blasted Duncan! I never liked him...

Being back on topic: Yes SP can be used in mesmer heavy team, where running multiple copies of shatter/burn would be redundant, or on support/utility role mesmer (HA). For usual domination build it's just too straighforward and simple. Sure does damage - but only that, and nothing else - compared to other mesmer possibilities.

TeeGee · Sep 25, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Sorry...

Double post due to lag...

Hella Good · Sep 25, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

You cannot just dismiss SP because its simply direct damage and Me arent supposed to do that. Who said so? They give us the ability to spike in NF, and I mean really SPIKE. Along with the pathetic attempt to make Spell Theif builds move viable (which will never happen until they make Thevery spells not overlap each other), these are the only 2 new things. Given that the new elites are uneventful to say the least, I'll take the spiking ability anyday now with no protest whatsoever. And no, using the new and improved Frags doesn't rly count as anything new.

Scourgey · Sep 25, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

I think it's overpowered and will be nerfed when chapter 3 comes out. Sry guys, high aoe damage for a mesmer isn't going to last

TeeGee · Sep 25, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

You cannot just dismiss SP because its simply direct damage and Me arent supposed to do that. Who said so?

I did not dismiss SP. I just said that in usual GvG mesmer's build there will be no place for it. Fine it can spike. But Shatter Ench is better spiking tool anyday, and EBurn does only 17 less damage and has 1.5x faster recharge - which is very important as spikes are going very often in GvG. No one will drop one of this two in favor of SP. And rest? Diversion? Energy managmnet? Team utility? No, SP isn't worth dropping those.

Also I said that it will find its use in >2 mesmer teams and HA. I never said I'm dismissing it entirely. It's good skill - but nothing meta-breaking.

Hella Good · Sep 25, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

When I meant Me spiking I did mean team spiking. FoC and OG spiking are still very popular. FC Air and R spike are often seen, too. Spiking is fine, despite the tendency to lean towards balanced builds. All I was point at is that an 8 people team build focused on using this skill for spiking can be just as effective if not more effective than any of the above. We are talking about two completely different things here. You are talking about fitting the skill in an existing build, I am talking about making a build around it. It might be worth considering, esp. having in mind that 4-5 Me can easily drop a target in no time inbetween SP, Shatter Chant, maybe Phantom Pain/Shatter Del or whatever else. And since Me is the most versatile prof, giving the prof the ability to team spike like that makes Me even more dangerous than be4. I hope this clarifies what I am talking about here.

TeeGee · Sep 25, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Allright I get it now. I was discussing fitting SP in existing buid and that fixed me to not see your point of making new build - sorry.

Sure this skill can be good for full-spike team. Still I like balanced more, but that's matter of personal preference.

Anyway full spike team falls into my 2+ mesmer category, doesn't it?

Siddious · Sep 25, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Very nice skill, but its certain to be hit by Anet's nerfbat....considering how much we mesmers get nerfed.