Curse

LightningHell · Oct 24, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Sword is now the more popular weapon as to the runes sales.I would gather it is from Dragon Slash a worthy elite anyway Eviscrate is getting harder to get being an Prophecies only skill and being all the way in Hells Precipice.It seems that sword is it for now as axes were in Prophecies.

Isn't Eviscerate also in Sorrow's Furnace?

Dragon Slashers are absolute killing machines.

By the way, I did forget to reply to this.

Quote:

Standing slash+silverwing slash+sun and moon slash+ Dragonslash= major sword damage.

But thats not a bar I would use in PvP, by any means, since it has no real defense.

Switch Standing and Silverwing for Sever and Gash and you have a standard Dragon Slasher. I hear it is sometimes used with FGJ, though this needs to be confirmed - it seemed to be some time ago. It IS usable in PvP, it's just more vulernable to adrenaline-burning stuff like Blackout.

You don't really need a lot of defense in PvP as a Warrior...Healing Signet and Sprint/Rush/Dash to cover Frenzy is enough?

kazjun · Oct 24, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

If you're talking pve, then swords are king, with riposte and d.riposte sword only you farm melee. Dragonslash also puts out DPS far superior to just about anything. Doesn't really work nearly as well in pvp since people tend NOT to stand there and try to tank you like the pve mobs will. Also, constant damage really isn't to tough to handle for a good monk, so you want to have spike damage to take people down before they get healed, thus axes.

LightningHell · Oct 24, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

If you're talking pve, then swords are king, with riposte and d.riposte sword only you farm melee. Dragonslash also puts out DPS far superior to just about anything. Doesn't really work nearly as well in pvp since people tend NOT to stand there and try to tank you like the pve mobs will. Also, constant damage really isn't to tough to handle for a good monk, so you want to have spike damage to take people down before they get healed, thus axes.

I know that the mechanics of the game favor spikes. A Dragon Slash warrior having a slower chain is a problem. However, I remember vaguely someone using Dragon Slash in GvG...I think it was NUKE, but I'm nowhere near sure. While warrior spikes are scary, pressure can force kills too. If there is enough of it. One Dragon Slasher isn't going to do crap. Kiting is a problem, but then kiting is a problem for all physicals and all characters who use projectiles.

Also, I was merely refuting the argument that Dragon Slashers cannot carry their weight as Warriors in PvP. I'd still bring a Charge Sword anyday.

There is also the argument about application of Deep Wound in spiking, where Axe wins by far with Eviscerate. Hammers need a knockdown + Crushing, Swords need Sever + Gash. It is my personal preference, however, to favor Axe + Sword or Axe + Hammer than 2 Axes while designing dual spiking warriors, though. Final Thrust is good, and so is Backbreaker.

jesh · Oct 24, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

From my experience playing, hammer can lay the deep wound fastest, not axe. I mean seriously.. shock+crushing. Hey, you're done! Look at that.
I don't know if you would do anything like this in pvp, but I do it all the time. I guess if you're getting mobbed, a quick To The Limit! can land you a dismember, but imo this is much more conditional than a KD.

LightningHell · Oct 24, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

From my experience playing, hammer can lay the deep wound fastest, not axe. I mean seriously.. shock+crushing. Hey, you're done! Look at that.
I don't know if you would do anything like this in pvp, but I do it all the time. I guess if you're getting mobbed, a quick To The Limit! can land you a dismember, but imo this is much more conditional than a KD.

"Fastest" meaning "in least time starting from start of spike", of which Eviscerate or Dismember under Frenzy would be winner.

Also, Deep Wound does not kill the target. If the target would be at negative health, the character's health would be at 1. You would need an extra attack to kill...of course, there's always Protector's Strike.

Age · Oct 24, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightingHell

Isn't Eviscerate also in Sorrow's Furnace?

Dragon Slashers are absolute killing machines.

By the way, I did forget to reply to this.

It seems it is in Sorrows Furnace but even that is hard to get at if want to get ran there but Dragon Slash is very easy to cap in Factions.I use mine in variouse ways.

Rera · Oct 24, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

The speed at which you can deliver a deep wound from neutral (ie. 0 adrenalin, full energy, etc.) isn't really important. The only purpose of DW is 'virtual' damage during a spike. A DW on its own at any other time is just going to be removed.

More guilds are experimenting with DS warriors in pressure builds for their superior DPS. Their primary weakness is their reliance on DS itself as an adrenalin engine. Anything from a Blackout to just having DS miss will severely lower the DPS of the warrior. Also, they don't have the spiking power of axe or hammer warriors.

In PvE, a DS warrior puts out more DPS than any other warrior build I can think of, with the possible exception of Enraged Smash builds.

kazjun · Oct 25, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Yeah, thats a big problem with the dragonslash builds in pvp. For great justice only lasts for so long, and if they spend a lot of that time kiting, evading, blocking, or blinding and knocking you down, then the biggest reason you'd take dragonslash is gone. Without chaining, it's really just an expensive galrath that gives some adren back. Also, sever+gash isn't that scary unless you can keep reapplying either.
In pve, yeah its the DPS king. Mobs who bunch close together and are too stupid to run FTW

LightningHell · Oct 25, 2006, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

The speed at which you can deliver a deep wound from neutral (ie. 0 adrenalin, full energy, etc.) isn't really important. The only purpose of DW is 'virtual' damage during a spike. A DW on its own at any other time is just going to be removed.

More guilds are experimenting with DS warriors in pressure builds for their superior DPS. Their primary weakness is their reliance on DS itself as an adrenalin engine. Anything from a Blackout to just having DS miss will severely lower the DPS of the warrior. Also, they don't have the spiking power of axe or hammer warriors.

In PvE, a DS warrior puts out more DPS than any other warrior build I can think of, with the possible exception of Enraged Smash builds.

Thank you. I can never explain anything.

Quote:

Yeah, thats a big problem with the dragonslash builds in pvp. For great justice only lasts for so long, and if they spend a lot of that time kiting, evading, blocking, or blinding and knocking you down, then the biggest reason you'd take dragonslash is gone. Without chaining, it's really just an expensive galrath that gives some adren back. Also, sever+gash isn't that scary unless you can keep reapplying either.
In pve, yeah its the DPS king. Mobs who bunch close together and are too stupid to run FTW

Sever-Gash isn't scary unless you are attempting a spike.

jesh · Oct 25, 2006, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Also, Deep Wound does not kill the target. If the target would be at negative health, the character's health would be at 1. You would need an extra attack to kill...of course, there's always Protector's Strike.

Cmon, even I know that. =P
I usually cast shock+crushing on one target, switch to a diff target and then unload the full chain of attacks, repeat... The first target still dies 20% faster, and it's not like I wasted much on em. (enemy condition removal in pve? naah =P)

I guess I get what you mean.. though really, Devastating Hammer+Crushing isn't much slower.

EDIT: Sever->Gash is scary at all? I always thought the bleeding was a dead give away. The damage that Gash adds is also tiny..

SnipiousMax · Oct 25, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

In PvE, a DS warrior puts out more DPS than any other warrior build I can think of, with the possible exception of Enraged Smash builds.

They're very close in DPS.

Spydergst1 · Oct 25, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Both! I have found that both are needed. I play with a sword but I have found there are times I need an axe instead (like for rotscale).

When you can't use energy or can't regen energy then an axe is better because the skill for axe are mostly adr.

SnipiousMax · Oct 25, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spydergst1

When you can't use energy or can't regen energy then an axe is better because the skill for axe are mostly adr.

Ahh... Dragonslash?

Spydergst1 · Oct 25, 2006, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Ahh... Dragonslash?

See! just when you think you have good advice someone points out a skill I can't get because I don't have Factions. Now I gotta go buy it and not just so I can have the skills but so I can give good advice. I was hoping to not buy until I got at least 3 max titles on Prophecies.

Issac · Oct 26, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Swords all the way lol

LightningHell · Oct 26, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Cmon, even I know that. =P
I usually cast shock+crushing on one target, switch to a diff target and then unload the full chain of attacks, repeat... The first target still dies 20% faster, and it's not like I wasted much on em. (enemy condition removal in pve? naah =P)

I guess I get what you mean.. though really, Devastating Hammer+Crushing isn't much slower.

EDIT: Sever->Gash is scary at all? I always thought the bleeding was a dead give away. The damage that Gash adds is also tiny..

I don't think Sever-Gash is ever scary, but Final Thrust afterwards is scary.

No, the time taken is nowhere near. Evis under Frenzy takes .88 (recurring) seconds, while Crushing under frenzy, even with Shock, takes 1.9166 (recurring 6) seconds.

the doomgiver · Oct 26, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

triple chop rocks in pve and its easy to cap

i think triple chop is probaly the best axe skill. i use it with my axe warrior it does decent damage and is a good start attack i use it with wings axe where i got triple chop from^^. wings axe is a good axe, and you can buy it for 10k or go and farm it from wing three blades.

jesh · Oct 26, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I don't think Sever-Gash is ever scary, but Final Thrust afterwards is scary.

No, the time taken is nowhere near. Evis under Frenzy takes .88 (recurring) seconds, while Crushing under frenzy, even with Shock, takes 1.9166 (recurring 6) seconds.

That's not fair. Include Shock before Eviscerate and you see what I mean. =P
Both warriors are going to do it, so why count the conditional difference? That's all I meant. Of course the target still has to take damage afterwards for the deep wound to register.. which makes the spike even longer.

LightningHell · Oct 26, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

That's not fair. Include Shock before Eviscerate and you see what I mean. =P
Both warriors are going to do it, so why count the conditional difference? That's all I meant. Of course the target still has to take damage afterwards for the deep wound to register.. which makes the spike even longer.

But Evis-Exec DOES take shorter time than Shock-Crushing-Whatever attack skill/attack. And it does the job.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 27, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Though Eviscerate is Proph. only, I still see Axe as being useful despite the odds...

Now that Dismember = Pen. Blow/Chop in A. cost, slamming someone with a deepwound combo is easier [though less damaging than Eviscerate, by 29 points or so]

Furious Strike got a nice beef up. Which was smart, wtf have an adrenaline skill that punishes stancing? IT'S TOTALLY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE... Good move Anet...

In VERY rare PvE occasions, I see myself bringing Dismember more often to combo up with Triple Chop {E} as my elite. But if you want to save skill slots, Eviscerate {E} is still the absolute best warrior weapon elite I've seen to date.

I think for the other weapons to be more appealing [at least to me], is to make a hammer and sword variant of Eviscerate.

wtb?!

Well, devastating hammer is a KD + Staggering blow in one [without the lose all adrenaline bs]. Why not make a super hammer elite by using the same combo, but instead of weakness [pointless vs. your real targets: casters] provide a hit that does KD + Deep Wound?

Sword could have an elite that sounds just disgusting: Disembowel. Have it do Final thrust style damage [YOWCH] with Deep Wound on top. How about THAT for an elite?

Adrenaline cost can be adjusted accordingly for each weapon as to balance them. [If all 3 elites existed at 8a. Eviscerate would sadly be the 'weakest' of the bunch. They'd have to make it +50 damage or lower the cost ^_^ imo.]